Intro: This is the TriDot podcast. TriDot uses your training data and genetic profile, combined with predictive analytics and artificial intelligence to optimize your training, giving you better results in less time with fewer injuries. Our podcast is here to educate, inspire, and entertain. We’ll talk all things triathlon with expert coaches and special guests. Join the conversation and let’s improve together.

Andrew Harley: Hey folks! Welcome to the show. Really interesting topic today and I’ve got two absolute legends here to share some wisdom and some tangible tips on how to excel in triathlon as we keep aging up. Particularly focusing today on the multisport needs of the older half of the pack. Now I want to be very clear and y’all know I do not swear on this show lightly, but my two guests today are just total badasses. I might be decades younger than both of them, but I am for sure the slowest athlete on this episode. So I want to be very clear we are not talking about meekly finishing races in our golden years. We are talking about how to thrive and get the most out of yourself even middle to late into your tri journey. So I am thrilled to have who I think are probably the best two people on this show to talk about this today. So first up joining me is pro triathlete Dede Griesbauer. Dede swam collegiately for Stanford University before making the switch to triathlon. She is entering her 18th year in the professional field and is a three time IRONMAN Champion with three top ten finishes at Kona on her resume. She won Ultraman Florida and set an Ultraman world record in the process. Dede is part of the IRONMAN live commentary team providing color commentary and race analysis for IRONMAN races around the world. Dede, welcome to the show!

Dede Griesbauer: Oh, thank you so much for having me. I’m really excited to dive into this topic. I think I’m going to be able to learn something as well given the company I have with me today. So, I’m really excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

Andrew: Yep and that company is TriDot coach Kurt Madden. Kurt is a pioneer of the sport and a nine time Kona finisher. He has three top ten finishes at the IRONMAN World Championships and is a three time North American age group champion and is a four time #1 world ranked age group IRONMAN All World Athlete. As if all that isn’t enough, he is also a two time Ultraman World Champion and in 2019 was inducted into the Ultraman World Championship Hall of Fame. Kurt Madden, thanks for joining us again for the TriDot podcast.

Kurt Madden: Andrew! It’s great to be back and it’s really going to be great to be able to contribute to this podcast.

Andrew: I'm Andrew the Average Triathlete, Voice of the People and Captain of the Middle of the Pack. As always we'll roll through our warm up question, settle in for our main set conversation, and then wind things down with our cool down. Lots of good stuff, let's get to it!

Warm up theme: Time to warm up! Let’s get moving.

Andrew: Short course, middle distance, long course, or ultra the triathlon finish line is always a hard earned and rewarding experience. The emotions for everyone are different and can even vary from finish line to finish line for each athlete. So Kurt, Dede, from all the multi-sport finish lines that you’ve crossed, which would you say was your favorite finish line moment? Dede, first time on the podcast, let’s start with you today.

Dede: Great. I would have to say absolutely my Ultraman Florida finish line...

Andrew: Okay.

Dede: …is probably my most cherished. I mean, it’s hard to pick one right? Because they’re all special for different reasons. You know, your first IRONMAN win, my first top ten in Kona, my first IRONMAN ever. All very special for different reasons, but I think I would have to pick my Ultraman Florida one because it was a shared experience. It was shared with my crew.

Andrew: Yeah.

Dede: Triathlon is such an individual sport, but there is 0% chance I would have made it through that endeavor without the support and the butt kicking when necessary from my amazing crew. So to be able to share that with that group of people who were there completely selflessly, only to support me I think is something that– It was unusual. You know, we all say it takes a village in IRONMAN races. We have supportive friends and coaches and spouses and partners and training partners and things like that that help get us through the buildup and the event itself. The fans out on the courses, the volunteers, but I think with the Ultraman that crew experience was just so intimate and to share that with those people just made it all the more special and really different from other race experiences that I’ve had.

Andrew: Okay, sure. Coach Kurt Madden, of all of your finish line moments what is this answer for you?

Kurt: You know, as I’ve tried to look back on 40+ years, Andrew, I might with your permission and Dede’s I might want to take two.

Andrew: Absolutely.

Dede: We’ll give it to ya.

Kurt: Thank you so much. You’re so generous. I would say probably I’m going to start right where you left off. My first Ultraman in 1983 because that was kind of the inaugural event and very, very small. There was like 30 people in the race on the first day. There were people down at the pier and you did a 6 mile swim, then you’re on the other side of the island, the 90 mile bike ride, and then you went all the way up to Hawi. Coming into literally where the IRONMAN finish line is when you finish literally right there, right at the King K Hotel. Just to finish under that infamous tree right there and to stand there for like a minute and then a local like, “Brah where have you run from?” and I said– I just pointed north and I said, “Hawi.” and he was like, “No.” and I said “and you know what I’m going back.” He says, “No, no, no. Don’t do that.” And then I’m going, “I’m just joking.” I think at that moment, Dede just like you, it’s like, “Oh my goodness!” All the heavy lifting, not just me, but the entire crew. A three day adventure to go around the entire big island and see 11 different climate zones out of 13 in the world that it just hits you like, “Oh my goodness!” So I think for me that was just incredible, but then I need to go back to 1982 with the IRONMAN because the context of the IRONMAN– then it was really, in a nice way before the Internet, it was kind of a California sport. I kind of knew who was going to be in that top ten because I trained with those guys all the time, but I can remember vividly coming off the bike in 20th going like, “Wow. I’m pretty far back, but you know what? I’ve got that grit. I’ve got that tenacity. I’m just going to keep on grinding.” And one thing led to the next. I’m going up Palani, I’m like in 14th. Then I’m going out toward the airport and I see Dave Scott. He’s already flying back. He’s traveling at mach 1.

Andrew: Sure.

Kurt: Like the look on his face was so big that it’s like, “You’re not going to touch that guy today. He’s got this thing wrapped up.” And I’m moving up and I’m moving up and like now I’m in the top 10 and now I’m turning around. I’m coming back and I’m passing a few people like, “You can’t pass me.” I said “Well, what’s wrong with that?” “Well, I trained harder than you.” And I said, “Okay, well I’m feeling good. I’m gone. I’ll talk to you at the finish line.” And to keep moving up and finish sixth overall in the world, it was like, “Wow!”

Andrew: Yeah.

Kurt: It doesn’t get any better than that. Then just that vibe right there at that finish line. Dede you know how it is. It’s like you pay your dues all day long, but it’s that last 100 yards. It’s just electric. So I remember that one vividly.

Dede: It’s funny you say that because every single race I think you go through those moments where you’re like, “This is awful. This is terrible. Why am I doing this? Why am I doing this?” And it’s that last 100 meters where you’re like “This is amazing! I love this!”

Andrew: So Kurt on the recording right now you’re showing us a picture. What–

Kurt: 1982 finishing right there. Sponsored by Bud Lite.

Andrew: Guys, we’re going to throw this question out to y’all. Make sure you are a part of the I Am TriDot Facebook group. Every single Monday when the new podcast comes out we post this question to you guys, our listeners. Can’t wait to hear what you have to say. Whether it was from your first sprint or Olympic or whether it was from your first IRONMAN or most meaningful IRONMAN. Maybe it was a PR. Maybe it was Ultraman like Kurt and Dede. Really curious to see what you have to say. What was the most meaningful finish line experience you have had as a triathlete?

Main set theme: On to the main set. Going in 3…2…1…

PRESEASON PROJECT: Quick reminder. TriDot is currently running the 2021 edition of our annual research project that we call the Preseason Project. We are looking for non-TriDot athletes who want to jump into the research project this year. Qualifying athletes will get two free months of TriDot training. It’s literally two months of the best training available in exchange for TriDot getting to analyze the training data that comes in from those sessions. I started training with TriDot during the 2018 Preseason Project and immediately took a liking to the structured training schedule and saw huge improvements in my swim, bike, and run. My 70.3 PR before TriDot was a 5:57 and after training with TriDot that PR is now a 5:02. For those of you doing the math, that is a 55 minute improvement for me since continuing with TriDot after coming on board for the Preseason Project. If you already train with TriDot, now is the best time to invite your tri friends to participate in the Preseason Project and if you are a podcast listener and have never given our training a try, head to TriDot.com/PSP. Join the Preseason Research Project and enjoy two free months of TriDot training.

Andrew: Being a triathlete at the age of 20 is different from being a triathlete at the age of 40 which is also different from being a triathlete at the age of 60. Our bodies change; what they’re good at, the training stress they can handle, how much TLC they need before and after workouts. There are plenty of considerations to be made as you get into the older half of the field and we have two standout veterans of the sport here to talk to us about excelling as triathletes as we age. So Dede, our audience knows me probably a little bit too well by now. Kurt has joined us a few times on the podcast. So I want to start today just kind of catching our listeners up on your background in multisport. What inspired you to move from collegiate swimming over to triathlon?

Dede: Yeah, I retired from swimming in 1994. I actually swam for two years post-collegiately which at that point was unheard of. Now there is such a thing as professional swimming. Back in the day there really wasn’t. There were very few athletes who swam post collegiately. When your college career ended, that was it. But my senior year at Stanford I was still swimming best times and I was still in love with the sport so I decided to carry on, but by 1994 I did start to feel like I was falling behind my peers a little bit in terms of career advancement and all of those important things. I was  not continuing to progress in the pool so I did decide to retire and at that point I sort of took up running a little bit more seriously. I had always ran at Stanford as part of our “dryland training.”

Andrew: Sure.

Dede: Back in the ‘80s a very big emphasis on weight management from swim coaches. We can go into detail on how displaced that is, but anyway. I actually really enjoy running and one of my teammates at Stanford was actually Barb Metz who is also known as Barb Lindquist and we were probably the only two on the team that actually really enjoyed running. So when we had to go run it was great and of course Barb went on to great success as a triathlete, Olympian, and I just continued to run mostly to keep up with my eating habits that I had developed in swimming.

Andrew: Sure.

Dede: I continued to run just recreationally. Ran a couple of marathons and then the summer before I started business school I was dating a boy and was trying to impress him and he had suggested that we ride our bikes across the country. And I thought, “Oh goodness. I only have my Schwin from the fifth grade.” So I bought a bike and five days later we flew to Seattle to ride our bikes back across the country. Unfortunately we broke up in Montana, but we continued the ride and I actually just found I really enjoyed cycling. So the summer after business school I didn’t have any money because I had just paid for business school. I had three months off before I had to start my job and I had been studying for finals at business school right before the Christmas Holiday and I was burnt out and I turned on the TV and I happened to see the IRONMAN World Championship being broadcast right there on NCB.

Andrew: Wow.

Dede: And I was gobsmacked. I just thought “I have got to try this.” So the summer after business school I spent that three months training as hard as I could and getting as fit as I could to do an IRONMAN and I was hooked. I loved it.

Andrew: So Dede, you’ve had a presence in the pro field now for 17, going on 18 years and you’re still going strong. In the most recent race season at the time we’re recording this podcast, the year 2021 just wrapped up and you had multiple top ten finishes including a fifth overall at IRONMAN Lake Placid and setting a bike course record in Cozumel. What is it like in this season of your life to line up on race day as the oldest member of the pro field?

Dede: Umm, it’s sort of refreshing to be honest. IRONMAN is an event of experience. I think you can make up for a lot by just having more experience. There are very few things that I’ll experience out on a race course that I haven’t experienced already or coached an athlete to experience or had a training partner experience. So that experience is comforting in many ways. There’s also sort of the, I don’t want to say the apathy, but I’ve lost– I don’t feel the sense of pressure I think I felt back in the peak of my career…

Andrew: Okay:

Dede: …because I toe a line now not with the pressure of feeling like I have to win the race, but seeing how close can I come to winning this race? And that just sounds snarky, but how much can I embarrass these 30 year-olds? And that is a tremendous– It’s a lot of fun for me. Like, let’s just go see what’s possible. There are no expectations on me anymore and that’s very, very liberating and gives me license to really take chances that I think I would have been almost too scared to do back when there was more that was expected of me.

Andrew: Interesting. Yeah, very, very interesting and it totally makes sense. As a 30-something I love to see it. I just absolutely love it. So, Kurt you’ve come on the show several times kind of as our Kona expert and World Championship Historian. We’ve heard some great stories from your days racing against Mark Allen, Dave Scott, Scott Tinley and so many others. Guys like Mike Riley and Bob Babbitt whom we all revere are just peers and friends of yours. What is it like for you to still be racing so competitively while most of your peers have transitioned from racing to other roles in the sport?

Kurt: Um-hm. You know Andrew, when I really reflect on that, the way I would describe it is it’s really surreal.

Andrew: Yeah.

Kurt: It has to be because it’s just so awesome when you can continue your learning, when you can be engaged, when you can be prepared, go through all the pre-race anxiety. A lot of people are like, “So at this point in your career do you ever get like butterflies before the race?” I’m like, “You know what? I actually do.”

Andrew: Wow.

Kurt: And really I think to give back to the sport it’s like I think we owe this. That’s part of our sport. It kind of evolved that way, is that it’s important to give back. It’s really focused on “we” rather than “me” and I think it really inspires other people to commit not to quit and really, Dede, to piggy-back off your story, I can remember being in Texas. I think it was in 2019– I’m doing the math in my head. 2019. I had a great swim, I had a great bike. I think I was 16 miles into the run and I was coming up to where Cindy typically sits in one little spot out there on the course.

Andrew: Yep.

Kurt: I remember that race and we actually put the numbers on the back of our legs. This guy, I think he was 27. He caught up with me and he goes, “You know what? You’re as old as my grandpa.” In the moment I caught him completely off guard. I said, “No that number 63 should be 93.” He stopped. He actually stopped in his tracks and he couldn’t stop laughing. He goes, “You can’t be 93.” I said, “No I’m not.” Then he goes, “I want to be like you when I grow up.” And I’m like, you know what. See that made my day.

Andrew: Yeah.

Kurt: You know, it’s kind of corny, but that guy will never forget that and he’ll probably tell that story. He’ll put the spin on it and I don’t think I will and I think too that in the sport now it’s something that it really still teaches you the nuts and bolts. How to adapt. How to pivot. How to be resilient. How to bring your A game. How to give 100% and then finish strong. When you really think about it, it really parallels life and that’s that inner play between our sport and life. If you can do all those things throughout your life, you’re going to be A-okay versus some people they just can’t. So I think again as I look back it’s just so surreal and I’m just so pumped to even start the 2022 season.

Andrew: So Kurt, just from dinner conversations and seeing you out on course multiple times in the year 2021, I can see your passion to race is as strong as ever. Kurt you were the #1 age group athlete last year in the IRONMAN age group point standings. I remember getting the email where IRONMAN is like, “Hey check your All World status.” I remember clicking on the link to see where I was in my age group and the top name out of every athlete in the world, #1 Kurt Madden. So it was incredible to see that and be like “I know him!” You topped the podium for the men’s 65-69 division in Coeur d’Alene, in Tulsa, in Waco, and in Tempe. Do you feel like your relationship with triathlon has changed over the years or do you still kind of view your place in the sport as the same it’s always been?

Kurt: Well, probably I would respond Andrew– and thank you for those compliments and that’s a whole different podcast. Andrew, I can tell you we went through a lot together this past year.

Andrew: We sure did.

Kurt: All I wanted to do is I just wanted to find Andrew and John. Once I found where you guys were then you could give me some good intel, but up to that moment it was kind of pins and needles. I think for me the relationship, it’s kind of yes and no. I think first of all that as we’ve looked at the changes in the sport that we’ve had to adapt. We’ve had to adapt with all the technology, all the different things with the rules and the courses because back in the day it was real simple. It was called RPE, your rate of perceived effort.

Andrew: Yeah.

Kurt: That was all the technology you had and I was just thinking in prior to coming on this podcast, “What would happen if IRONMAN decided okay, we’re going to do this race a little bit differently. There’s no technology allowed.”

Andrew: Wow.

Kurt: I don’t know if a lot of people would say, “I’m in.” They might say–

Andrew: Some people would have a heart attack and just–

Kurt: They would. They would. But I look at that and I think the one thing that hasn’t changed is that you always want to give your best. You want to give your best from start to finish. You want to embrace the comradery. You want to be a good person in the sport meaning your sportsmanship and really just to put it out there. You don’t want to be a jerk. That’s one thing that I would say honestly. Once in a while you see that, but the majority of triathletes that’s really, really awesome. I think the mental approach hasn’t really changed at all. It’s the grit, the tenacity, the positive self-talk that is important, but I think again when I look back on the sport I think it was really easy in the beginning. In 1980 there was one simple rule; no cheating. Fast forward that to 2022, unfortunately there’s a few people in the sport and their mindset is, “I’m going to go ahead and draft until I get caught.”

Andrew: Yeah.

Kurt: You know, “Go ahead and penalize me.” I think I have to separate myself from that because it does bother me a little bit; the pureness of the sport and that’s one thing maybe I’ll never adjust to. But I think there’s been big changes. It’s been great, but when it comes down to it you still have to perform and execute on race day.

Andrew: Yeah Kurt, you referenced John and I giving you kind of time updates. By the time you found us on the run course we could tell you how far ahead the second place man you were at your races. It was especially fun in IRONMAN Arizona because the guy in second, 45-50 minutes behind you, was actually an athlete that you coach. So when he came around we knew he was a TriDot athlete. I didn’t know you coached him but he was very concerned. He asked John and I straightaway “How far ahead is Kurt?” And we were like, “Bro, he’s 45-50 minutes ahead of you.” He was like, “I’m going to catch him.” I don’t know if you’re going to. But he was like, “No, he’s my coach. I’m going to catch him.” Anyway, it was really funny to meet him and to know that that guy trying to chase you down was an athlete that you actually coach. So that was a fun story for me. So, for each of you, Dede kind of in your 50’s, Kurt in your 60’s respectively. Both of you are still crushing it on course. Do you approach your training any differently now than you did when you were younger? So Dede for you, kind of to stay competitive in the pro field, is the training the same as it was 16-17 years ago or does it look different now?

Dede: I’m actually pretty proud to say that I think throughout all the years of my career I’ve been able to sort of build momentum. I think in my early years I did a lot of quality training, but the volume wasn’t tremendous and part of that was geography. I started my pro career living in Boston so the winters obviously weren’t very conducive to doing a lot of long training in the winter time. But as I’ve evolved through my career I think today I am doing a higher combination of volume and intensity than I did earlier in my career.

Andrew: Wow.

Dede: What’s had to come along with that, I think to use your words from earlier, the TLC that comes along with it and that’s not to say that I’m not taking more recovery days. If anything I’m taking– I don’t want to say recovery. I am taking recovery days. I’m taking fewer days off. I find that an object in motion stays in motion and if I stop moving I actually get inactivity injury.

Andrew: Sure.

Dede: So I think that that has changed. A lot of the– as opposed to rolling out of bed, throwing my shoes on and heading out the door for a run it now takes me a half hour to get ready to go run you know with all the prehab and the rehab and the taking care of myself. Nutrition is something that has long been an Achilles heel for me and I was able to sort of skirt it for a long time and just say, “You know what? It doesn’t really matter. I’m doing just fine.” But now I really have to pay attention to it. So those little details matter a lot more. So for me I feel like my training is– I’m really happy with what I’m able to withstand in terms of training and I feel like it is keeping me competitive in the sport, but I’ve had to add a tremendous amount of work on top of that with regard to strength training, nutrition, rest and recovery, rehabilitation, and all of those sorts of things to keep going.

Andrew: Very, very interesting. Kurt, TriDot I know was not a thing when you were young in the sport so I know discovering TriDot was a great moment for you that kind of changed the way you train somewhere along the way. In addition to assimilating to TriDot how has training changed for you as you’ve gotten older?

Kurt: Yeah that’s a great question. I know probably because of where I was geographically, Dede, that I was in kind of the thick of it. I was in San Diego and that’s where everyone was training. Back in the early ‘80s I can remember that when you were literally driving around or whatever if you saw Scott Tinley on his bike you knew he was probably going 100 miles and then all of a sudden you’d get a call, “Hey, you want to go for a bike ride?” “Well, who’s on the ride?” “Well we have Mark Allen and we’ve got Mark Montgomery and Tinley and a few other people.” So I’d tell my wife, “Yep they said it’s three hours. I’ll be back like in 3-½.” Six and a half hours later. I’m like, “Oh my goodness.” So it was really– it was high volume and I can remember even Dave Scott and I have so much respect for Dave. If you go back in his history in the ‘80s, Dave would do a lot of high volume. Actually the day before the race he would do like a 60 mile bike ride or do repeats on Ali’i Drive going to the carb loading party. I think a lot of it was the sight thing that he would put out to people. So I think as I shift forward when I came back into the sport in 2015 it was perfect that John and I met at a perfect time in 2016. It’s like, “Wow. I’m going to flip the switch on this whole thing.” I now can control the volume, really focus on that intensity and I think that’s been a big change for me and I think also just like with Dede I think in this day and age now there’s no secret. It’s swim, bike, run, recovery and that’s a whole other pillar.

Andrew: Yeah.

Kurt: That’s like a different pillar. Back in the ‘80s we didn’t do that much recovery. It was like if you did you were kind of a wussy. In this day and age it’s like, “You don’t have your massage gun out? You’re not doing the Normatecs? You’re not sleeping 20 minutes extra every day?” I mean all those things that we need to do and I think the other thing too is nutrition. That’s the fifth pillar. I was good back in the ‘80s, but I’m much better today.

Andrew: I think something that would be really interesting to talk about, Kurt, that I haven’t heard anybody every really bring up is if you could go back to the ‘80s and have Dave and yourself, Scott Tinley, Mark Allen, all those guys racing all over again. If they could have known what we know now in terms of fueling yourself and recovering and all that, how much faster could those guys have been than they were back then. I don’t know. Probably a whole different podcast, but very interesting talking point.

Kurt: Agreed.

Andrew: So luckily for us in triathlon there are objective kind of data points in our training. There’s things like watts, average paces, and those pace’s relationship to heart rate. Talking shop with a training buddy of mine who’s in his 50s, we’ve compared notes that my max heart rate is in the 190s while his max heart rate is in the 150s. For you how have these biometric data points changed over the years and how has it changed what your body is capable of in training and racing?

Kurt: I’m really pleased with the technology that we have now and all the different metrics we can utilize because again my background is in exercise physiology and I have to go back again where I did my Master’s. You know it was something that I can remember vividly just doing a max VO2 kind of old school. It’s not like on your Garmin watch. No, you’re going to put everything on. We’re going to watch your expired gasses and it’s going to be all out. So I think for me back then in college when I was a pro, that was just the perfect timing that that was one indicator. I think I didn’t hang my hat on that too much because as I looked at the one variable, it was really anaerobic threshold. In other words that point of– and Dave Scott promotes that quite a bit. I tag right onto that. That was my thesis. It was really with a tethered swimming device. It was can we measure oxygen uptake, measure anaerobic threshold? So when a person goes from an aerobic to anaerobic state that’s kind of like how much of your VO2 or oxygen uptake are you taking? Is it 60%, 70%, 80%? Can you make that go up to 85, 86, 87? So I think as I’ve come back in the sport in 2015 I think I would say objectively that I’ve aged graciously.

Andrew: Okay.

Kurt: That’s the appropriate word to use. I think again, TriDot– things are very, very objective. When you do a 20 minute power test, it’s a 20 minute power test. There’s no subjectivity to it. It’s right there. Andrew, it’s even hard to say this, but last Tuesday since I have been with TriDot in 2016 it was an all-time best.

Andrew: Wow.

Kurt: All-time best and I had texted John last month and I said, “Hey John, I have this really weird feeling that I can go up like by 15 watts.” And it was so funny his response. He goes, “You know, I don’t think I’m going to doubt you right now.” But I think Dede can appreciate this. I think as an athlete when you get these strange ideas that you believe something will happen and you work toward that, no matter what level you’re on you’ve got to stick with that and that’s what drives me I think and motivates me. It’s like I’m so fixated on I know I can hit that number, but at my age to hit an all-time best on an FTP I’m thinking, “Gall, you know I drilled down.” I didn’t have OCD too much about it. It felt good. I didn’t vomit at the end. You hear all these stories about the FTP. No, it was actually real good and I’m thinking, “Gall, let me check my cadence one more time. What can I do in my warm up to change that?” So I think that was good. With my swimming, again I looked at my times from 2016, my assessments, and I can tell you that they’ve changed maybe a second or two, but keep in mind probably just like Dede is that 90% of the time that I’m working on that I’m trying to maintain that level. Like I’m not going to get a big bump and I know I even did my 400 yard swim last Friday and Andrew you can appreciate this. I started to get a leg cramp at 150 yards and I’m like, “What are you thinking? That cannot happen right now. I’m going to finish this puppy.”

Andrew: Yeah.

Kurt: But then at 250 my leg started going numb because I didn’t have enough oxygen. I got to 300 yards and I’m like, “Just relax. You’re going to finish this thing. Just relax.” And I came in two seconds faster than a month ago. Then as you’ve been to races respectfully, John and I– He kind of teases me like, “You think you can go under an hour?” And I’m like, “Well John, I’ll see.” And I’m pretty consistent like that. But again just like Dede, with me the running, there’s no way at my age that I think I can continue to have that high level max VO2. Now, conversely, I’ve got a couple athletes that I work with in their 70s and it’s really incredible to even say this, but they’re not slowing down and I’m thinking, “Is it genetics? Is it lifestyle? Is it a combination of both?” But when I’ve got a 72-year-old that can go like 22:30 for a 5K and then he’s telling me, “Coach, I think I’m slowing down.” I’m going, “Please. Can I have a part of your genetics? Can you Federal Express it or put it on Amazon?” But I think we do it with grace and I think the thing that I’ve learned just like with Dede is that you’ve really got to take care of yourself with recovery, with nutrition, moderation is really key. But for me I’ve got a chiropractor, I’ve got an acupuncturist, I’ve got a massage therapist. When I go in it’s like going to church three times a week. I don’t need to say a word. It’s like they’re going to tell me exactly what I need to know, not what I want to hear and that’s a big, big difference because they know your body intuitively. So when I check everything off for a race there’s no doubt in my mind that it’s like okay, I want to go and I want to be proactive. I think that’s the other thing I find, not to belabor the point, is be proactive just like on a car or on your house. Don’t wait until the dashboard has all red lights on it. Take it in. Just like your body. Do it in a proactive sense versus you’re so broken down, we can’t repair you and put you together with duct tape on race day.

Dede: Actually it’s interesting you say that Kurt, because I started off my training block after my season break during the holidays and I marched into a physio’s office and he was like, “Well, what’s wrong?” And I was like, “Well nothing, but I want to go through a movement screen and I want you to pick up on things that you’re seeing and give me a set of exercises to do on my non-gym days, spend 20-30 minutes just preventatively.” I want to nip these things in the bud before they become a thing.

Andrew: Sure.

Dede: Before you get to that state of being broken down. And he looked at me. He almost wept. He gave me a hug. He’s like, “Why isn’t everybody like you?” It’s not the fun stuff to do, but it goes a long way. Preventative stuff goes a very, very long way in terms of it’s a lot easier to ward off a problem than it is to fix one once you’ve got one.

Andrew: Yeah.

Kurt: Hey Andrew, we could say with this, I think it’s a very important component of this podcast so I want to stay with it just for like a minute longer.

Andrew: Yep.

Kurt: And I’m going to piggy-back on what Dede said. Even you know myself as I’m assessing how can I get better as a coach? How can I get better as an athlete? I’ve even taken that bold move now that I’m doing yoga. I’m doing like hot yoga. It’s funny I was actually in the studio earlier today and this was like– I’m not on the podium in yoga class. I can tell you honestly. I’m like in the back row with the instructor helping me. “Kurt do this and do that.” I’ve done it six times and it’s the hot yoga and I thought to myself in the moment, back in the ‘80s if I had told Mark Allen “Hey Mark, I’ve got to go to yoga class or Tinley.” Those guys would have me jump off the ship. That wasn’t going to happen, but in this day and age if I can start to do yoga there’s no doubt in my mind when I look at strength, flexibility, balance, doing all those things it’s a game changer. I’ve gone to my sixth class. It’s kind of like swimming, the more you go the more you like it.

Andrew: I have a new dream, Kurt. A new goal is to somehow, some way be in the same place at the same time to attend a hot yoga class with Kurt Madden in San Diego. So I’ve got to find an excuse to come out to San Diego just to go do hot yoga with you. So that sounds like a blast.

Dede: Let’s fast forward that and have Kurt open his own hot yoga studio. We’ll all go.

Andrew: Hey!

Kurt: No. But Andrew, maybe we can do that at the Ambassador Camp in St. George.

Andrew: That would be…

Kurt: I could bring somebody in for that.

Andrew: …so fun. I wanted to, actually a little further into our script I have me asking this question, but Kurt you were just talking about this so I want to bring it up here too. We’re kind of going out of order today, but in a way it’s good. A lot of our athletes, whether it’s just on the Facebook group or just in conversation at races, they’ve kind of posed the question, Kurt you were talking about how your FTP is higher now than it’s ever been in your mid to upper 60s. We’ve had athletes ask before, okay, like on TriDot every four to six weeks you have an assessment. You’re kind of time trialing. You’re swimming the pool, your 400, 200. You’re time trialing a 5K. You’re doing that 20 minute power test and I’ve seen people ask before “At what age can I expect myself to stop getting better?” They kind of expect there to be a point where okay well now I’m 40, now I’m 50, now I’m 60 so clearly I can’t do as well as I did when I was 30. But we’re seeing in a lot of athletes like yourself that that’s not necessarily the case. You pose this is maybe genetic, maybe it’s not, maybe it differs from athlete to athlete. For each of you, what is your perspective on this? What is your perspective on is there an age where you stop shooting for all time PRs and you kind of switch gears to I’m just going to do the best I can do for my age? Is there an age range maybe where you start trailing off or can we keep improving indefinitely?

Dede: I think it depends a little bit on what your background is. For me personally I’m not going to hit any PRs swimming. I’m a NCAA champion, All American, two times Olympic Trials swimmer. Those days are in the rearview mirror for sure. So I’m fighting decline in the pool based on where I started from.

Andrew: Okay.

Dede: That being said, I mean I hear Kurt talk about a 70-year-old who’s still running close to PBs in 5K type– I think it depends on where you’re starting from. I mean if you’re just new to the sport, and that’s one of the things I love advocating for now as an older athlete. It’s never too late to start. If you want to start triathlon and you’re 50, great. Dive right in because your curve– You’re going to improve, right? We’re all starting from somewhere. So I think it depends a little bit on the background and what the potential is. Where you’re starting from. What the depth of your history is in each of the sports, but like Kurt, I’m still seeing PRs on the bike. Not much on the run, but I think I’m finding greater efficiencies on the run.

Andrew: Okay.

Dede: So I think you look for improvements in perhaps different ways, but I think if you’re just starting you’re going to be seeing PRs no matter what your age.

Kurt: You know Dede and I, we’re really on the same page. I think it’s case by case as person by person and I know as I work with athletes and with TriDot– I’ve got one person particular that’s in his 70s and we go back through his assessments from three years ago and he’s right there. He has not stopped at all. So I’m thinking, wait a minute. He’s like in his mid 70s. He’s probably genetically really, really superior. He follows the training plan. He’s a great guy to coach. I’ve got other people that at the age of 50 they can’t quite do that. So I think it’s really, really case by case, but just like Dede said I think a lot about our sport is efficiency. I think the ideal person is like, “I want to have the physiology of a 30-year-old, but the wisdom of a 60-year-old.” Even going back to last year and you were kind of there. Gall, we did four races. Each one was a little bit different and unique…

Andrew: Absolutely.

Kurt: …but I posed the question when people are preparing for an IRONMAN, so the question is: how many IRONMANs do you think you would have to do before you really nail one? That everything goes almost perfect? And I’m not surprised by what they say. They’re going, “First of all that’s a really good question. Secondly is I’d probably have to do about 16.” And I’m like, “Can you repeat that again?” So this isn’t the one and done and I know even last year, Andrew, things for me because of all the chaos with the weather and everything else, the last race of the year out of four, that was the one that worked out the best. So I think as you age you get that wisdom, that experience and I think that’s what is so intriguing for me about Kona is that I will train literally the whole year to perform my best on that day because if I can get five minutes faster on that course or go up Palani on the run and not die out at the Energy Lab and just keep on running and be in the top 10 or be in the podium, it’s like you know what, to me that is totally worth that journey. It really, really is. So I think peaking it’s really, most of it I think is in your head versus your body and I think again I know– I was working with an athlete recently and it was after your podcast about stamina and it was like an epiphany. He’s like, “You know, I know what it is now.” And I said, “What is it?” He said, “My limiting factor is in my head.”

Andrew: Wow.

Kurt: “I don’t want to really put myself out there to get really uncomfortable and be uncomfortable doing that.” and I said, “Perfect.” So thanks to you, shoutout Andrew, for that podcast and Jeff and John that really– and I go back to that often. So I think again so much is in our mind.

Andrew: So something that Dede mentioned a little bit earlier as being important as you age, and I know it’s important for all of us, is our nutrition. I mean dialing in our nutritional needs is such a key component of multisport success both in the day-to-day training and on race day. Nutrition fuels our training, it enables our recovery, and it drives us forward obviously on race day. So how are the nutritional needs of older athletes different from those of younger athletes?

Dede: Just stating the obvious, as we get older muscle mass is the first thing that we tend to lose and so I think having adequate protein intake is critical. I think time in the gym is critical for maintaining that muscle. Again, like Kurt and he said this, it’s everything in moderation. I think the longer you’re in the sport, the more you sacrifice for the sport, and this is something that Karen Smyers taught me after a race that didn’t go very well for me. We were both racing together and I didn’t have a very good race and I was quite upset afterwards and she just shook her head at me and the perspective of that woman, I tell you. She was like, “Dede, win or lose we drink the booze.” And we wondered right over to the finish line beer truck and had ourselves a beer. But, you know, she really taught me the lesson that if you want to be in this sport for a really long time it does have to be moderation. I don’t think you can live this puritanical life, right? I’ve worked with a nutritionist now who– I’ve worked with 147 different nutritionists in my life because it’s been a real struggle for me to get it right because it’s just not something I have that much interest in. I’m a picky eater. I eat for simplicity. Give me the path of least resistance so I can just eat this meal and be done with it and not necessarily what’s best for me. So he’s been great, but also everything in moderation. If you have to give up everything and not eat a gram of sugar too much, you’re going to end up resenting the sport. So I think we have to make good choices, but I think you have to do it in moderation and still enjoy the things that you enjoy in life.

Andrew: Yeah. Kurt what have you learned about nutrition just in terms of just sustaining your energy, sustaining your effort, and lasting this long in the sport and succeeding at this age? Is it any different for you than it was earlier in your career?

Kurt: You know, I think again just to piggy-back off of Dede, I think our mindsets are so common and similar that when you were younger you could get away with a little bit more. Not that it was truly excessive, excessive, but it was something that looking back on if I had to do that over I probably could of done it a little– not too much better, but a little bit better. But I think to fast forward now I think we have so much more information. There’s so much– and that’s one thing we need to remember with our sport. Back when it started it was like we’ll know more– I can remember we had that conversation like, we’ll know more in 20 or 30 or 40 years. Well we’re here now. Let’s be very, very strategic, but I think again is I really try to model it and then I work with people. It’s just really eating wholesome and eating as clean as possible. Try to really be honest with yourself and do a food diary for seven days. I think it’s very, very compelling. Some people are like, “Well I need 2000 calories a day.” I said, “I won’t argue with that, but tell me about the calories you’re consuming.”

Andrew: Yes.

Kurt: Then the person says, “You know, I do have a lot of hollow calories.” “Oh perfect. Okay, let’s kind of minimize that back or maybe the portion size.” I know that as I’ve gotten older it was kind of a big day. I can remember just being at the “carb loading party” but truly what it was, boy you would just eat and eat and eat all this food. Fast forward to where we are today, it’s really, really changed. I mean, there’s such a focus now as we look. We know the importance of protein. We know the importance of electrolytes, supplements. But for me the shift I’ve made over the past say three to four years is really 48 hours before the race I tend to really start not consuming as much solid food. Then I’ll kind of drink my calories and I’ve got a great balance of carbs, protein, a little bit of fat. But you know Andrew, as you’ve talked so many times on podcasts is that it’s so nice on race morning to say, “Okay, let me look in the rearview mirror. I know exactly how much solid food I took in yesterday.” Therefore on race morning there’s going to be very few issues. It’s going to be so much nicer. So that’s one thing that I think that I’ve made that change and I work with people on that. I try to just– I kind of had to weigh in on that topic. I think it’s just nice to start that day. So it’s continuing to evolve and sometimes the word nutrition or food, it’s a four letter word. What I’ve learned, and that’s the beauty of working with so many different people in TriDot, is that boy you don’t realize how many issues people have with nutrition. It could be sinuses or they’re allergic to something and I’m thinking, how can they get through the amount of training that we do because they’re so limited on their nutrition. So I think for people like that they need to set that bar a little bit lower. That maybe a full IRONMAN is not going to be their go-to. We can work through that, but it’s really, really– and I’m just fortunate I don’t have those types of situations as an athlete and I’ve got a great cook. Kelly, Queen K we call her, she is just the go-to. She’s like Bobby Flay on steroids. So she is just very particular on this is when you’re going to eat, this is how much you’re going to eat and things like that. So I’m very, very fortunate.

Dede: I think another thing that’s important to highlight as well is when we talk about sort of technology and this isn’t technology specifically, but the evolution of sports nutrition as well and how that’s allowed us to continue to find new ways to be faster and better and to sustain energy and to Kurt’s point for people that have various nutritional issues, the sheer variety of sports nutrition products now…

Andrew: Yeah.

Dede: …to meet those very specific needs. The ability to diagnose those needs so much better. Again, that’s one thing that my nutritionist has been very helpful to me with is not only the day-to-day nutrition and making sure you’re getting those pre-fueling and recovery fuels before and after workouts, but during the workouts themselves. Finding that right product or that right combination of products that works for you and the fact that there are so many to choose from now I think gives athletes a great variety. I mean, I made a switch to UCAN a couple of years ago as my primary source of race nutrition and it’s been tremendous in terms of my digestive issues. But it’s going to be different for every athlete. It really just depends. But the fact that there are so many options now it can be overwhelming, but if you’re well guided by a coach, by a nutritionist, by a training partner who’s got a lot more experience that can make those suggestions. That’s why it’s so complicated. It’s not a one size fits all. We all know generally in day-to-day nutrition what good choices are, right? We know it’s not necessarily smart to go for the Big Mac and the French fries for lunch. It’s better to have A, B, and C. But on the fueling, the training fueling and the racing fueling, that’s a much tougher nut to crack, but I think the fact that there are so many options out there now is great that people can find what they need be it a vegan source or whatever their dietary preferences or requirements are.

Andrew: Yeah. I’ve mentioned on the podcast before the website thefeed.com. We are not sponsored in any way, shape, or form by thefeed.com. I just think it’s a great site to kind of try some things because you can buy– instead of buying a tub of something you can buy a couple individual packets of a bunch of different items and kind of play in your training with what you like. And Dede for me, one of the silver linings of my first IRONMAN– so when I signed up for IRONMAN it was IRONMAN Texas in 2020. It got canceled. It got pushed a couple different times and one of the silver linings for me in all those postponements was it gave me time to discover UCAN and kind of work out for myself how I use UCAN. By the time I got to race day at IRONMAN Waco I had my system in place. I knew exactly how to do it. I had done it in race rehearsals. I had done it in stamina sessions and I had my downtube bottle on my bike that had all my servings of UCAN. It had my Precision Hydration and Nutrition electrolytes and it had my deltaG ketone ester all in the same bottle. Had I done IRONMAN Texas the first time I signed up for it I would have had none of that on my bike and I, nutrition wise, would not have been nearly on point. So Dede, for you on race day is it all UCAN start to finish? Kind of what’s your system that you’ve found?

Dede: No. UCAN is definitely the foundation. It’s the foundation of my nutrition and to Kurt’s point, I take a lot of UCAN on board in the days leading up to as a carb-load so to speak, but low glycemic settles nicely in the stomach. It’s nearly my entire race morning breakfast is UCAN. Then depending on the race, my first few bottles will be UCAN because you lay that foundation and then that slow burning energy is released throughout the day. Then for the longer efforts I do believe and UCAN will even advocate for this, you do need to layer a higher glycemic carb on top of it for super intense sessions or really longer sessions. But UCAN is absolutely the foundation and once I have that UCAN on board I actually find my stomach is just settled almost regardless of what I put on top of it for the high glycemic component later in the day. So that UCAN has been tremendous for me.

Andrew: So even with your fitness on point, your nutrition dialed in, your recovery and your strength building going well, there’s still kind of the mental aspect of being a triathlete. Things like confidence in yourself, mental stamina to go the distance, the grit to dig deep when it hurts. Younger or older we all need to be mentally prepared for tough training days and of course tough moments on race day. Kurt, is developing mental toughness the same for us all or does it kind of take on a different form when you’re in the older half of the field?

Kurt: I’m going to tap into Dede first. I’m going to have her go first and then I’m going to follow up. I’m curious what she might say.

Dede: Umm, gosh. I mean we’ve all had races where– I raced and I’m not going to remember the year, but I raced IRONMAN South Africa one year and just had a terrible race and just decided coming off the bike I was so far back that that was it. I was quitting. But I didn’t want my last race to be a DNF so I decided I was going to walk the whole marathon and throughout the whole marathon I was working on my resume in my head because of course I had to go get a job and I thought, “Well, you know it’s okay that I’m quitting because now I can get a puppy.” I was naming the puppy and of course none of this is productive to getting yourself back into the race.

Andrew: I just love that all of that was going on in your head during a race. That’s fantastic.

Dede: Oh no. It was amazing. I actually stopped at one of the tents. IRONMAN South Africa a lot of the tri teams they had their own tents and there were some adult beverages being served. I think I stopped and had a half a beer with one of them. There was no way. I did not give myself the opportunity to get back into that race ever. Like, I made– It wasn’t going well and I quit. I finished the race, but I quit mentally.

Andrew: Okay.

Dede: And I think ever since then I really have tried and it hasn’t always worked, but I’ve tried to adopt the strategy that the only way out is through and that you can– if I am physically able to finish the race I will do it and making the most of every single moment. There are going to be dire moments in any IRONMAN race you do. In any sprint race you do you’re going to have…

Andrew: Yeah, absolutely.

Dede: …dire moments of doubt and this isn’t going the way it’s supposed to. This doesn’t feel as good as it’s supposed to, but again with the experience I’m able to tell myself, “Well, I don’t feel good, but I don’t have to feel good to be able to go fast.” Feeling good is an ancillary benefit. We all dream about those days where you go fast and feel good, but most of the time it doesn’t actually feel that good.

Andrew: No.

Dede: So get that out of your mind. You don’t have to feel good to go fast and if things aren’t going the way that you are expecting them to go, be a problem solver, right? Instead of just woe is me and boo-hooing in your Cheerios figure out a way through. Like figure out the way. How am I going to make the most of this moment that isn’t going particularly well? What bag of tricks do I have that I can pull from to make this situation better and find better. Sometimes better is okay. I just need to walk to the next aid station and you need to give yourself credit for that for making that decision and saying okay, this is what I think I need and committing to that strategy until that doesn’t work. And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t, but giving up on a race before you’ve gotten to the finish line, you may problem solve from start to finish and never quite get it right, but at least you’ve tried. So to me, I like to just say the only way out is through and I’m going to problem solve this if it’s not going the way I want to and at least by the time I get to the finish line I threw everything I had at it.

Andrew: Kurt, I don’t think she did too bad going first there on that one. Do you have anything to add there?

Kurt: Yeah I do. No again, I think our thought process is very, very similar. What I really try it do is really kind of get into that self-hypnotic trance. Many times it’s called the state of flow. It’s been talked about the mountain climbers get it, surgeons get it, triathletes get it. As I watch the great people in our sport, if it’s Jan Frodeno or Heather Jackson, you can go through the whole list. They’re in that trance. They’re in a state where it’s enjoyable, it’s effortless, it’s easy and they can go all day. The nine hours seems like three hours. It goes very, very quickly. So what I really try to do before a race, actually moments before, I do a lot of visualizing in my training especially the week before the race, but I think again with literally two to three minutes before I just really try to get into that hypnotic state and go to the point where I know I just let things go and then it’s effortless. It’s like I’ve got to get my mind there first and I’ve got to stay there because you’re going to hit those speed bumps and Andrew I remember Coeur d’Alene well. I got off that bike and I’m like, I am not– this is not going to be fun at all. I was not in the zone that day for sure. I was completely out of the zone doubting myself, doubting my ability in such a dark spot I was just moments from just ringing the bell. So I’m going to come clean of that, but I think the mental approach to racing can make it or break it for so many people and the people that do really well, especially if you lined up the top five women or men, their max VO2s are identical, but it’s the will to grind longer and harder than anyone else, but it’s that mental state that you’re in. There’s some days where people just know it. It’s like I’m just going to be unstoppable today. You don’t want to– Lucy Charles, she said that at St. George. She was very– she did it with humility, but she kind of said “I knew for sure on that day I was going to win St. George.”

Andrew: Wow.

Kurt: And she was first on the swim. She was first on the bike. She was first on the run. She made a statement. So I think for every athlete, regardless of where you are, work toward getting to that mental state of mind versus I have this fear. I have this anxiety. Nothing good is going to happen. And I see that especially with people that aren’t very good swimmers. They are so worked up and to start the day in that rough patch they never come out of it versus relax, the water’s your friend. You’ve got a wetsuit on. You are going to float. There’s lifeguards everywhere. Make this as enjoyable as possible because you’re going to be out of there, on the bike, and then you’re running.

Andrew: So to kind of land the plane on our main set, kind of a two part question here for y’all. The first is this. For athletes like me, in our 20s, 30s, and probably even our young-to-mid 40-somethings, are there any habits that we can form now to help extend our tri careers into our 50s and beyond? Kurt I think about the young man who you joked with at IRONMAN Texas where you told him you were 93 years old and he was like “Man I want to be like you.” I mean 93 or 63, either way I would love to be doing this sport into my 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s and beyond and I think a lot of us would aspire to that. What habits can we form now to make sure that we’re set up to have a successful back half of our tri career? Kurt, what do you think?

Kurt: Yeah, I think I would call this really what are some nuggets we can get out of our sports or out of this sport or the trials and tribulations. I think I’ve seen so much that I’ve kind of embraced… I think the number one thing is love the sport. Love the sport means you’re going to take the good with the bad and that’s what unconditional love is.

Andrew: Yeah.

Kurt: You take the good with the bad. Try not to live in the past. Try to really live in the moment. Enjoy everything that’s going on. Remember that also I think that this is our individual story. Andrew your story is different than Dede’s, different than mine. It’s the comparison I think that’s why some people leave. They’re just kind of self-defeated that I’ll never be that person and I’m trying to coach them that no this is about you. Every single day– and I think COVID was really good in a way, that every day I’ve told people that it’s a day to practice your craft and be a craftsman. Don’t be a carpenter. It’s really a lifestyle. It’s that physical and mental health that is going to sustain you and I think at the end of the day that’s a really, really, really good mindset to have. Know that no matter how bad we want it at a certain time or a certain place or whatever the case might be that I’ve learned in life that things always work out. That things happen for a reason. That if you play the long game you’re going to have a lot of joy in the journey as you continue yours.

Dede: I would agree 100% and then it comes from love of the sport. I would say just always be curious. Always be curious about ways you can keep getting better and if you love the sport you will do that automatically. I don’t want the music to stop. Like I want to keep playing the game and so I’m going to be curious about these little details now that I can turn these dials and continue to get better or at least continue to not get slower as I get older. But it comes from just a deep passion for getting to do this sport. It’s such a gift to be able to be a part of this community. To get to test ourselves not only on race courses, but day in and day out through the training, the lifestyle as Kurt said. It’s such a valuable thing to me that I think the best habits you can get into in the earlier years are to find that love. What is it that you absolutely love about this sport and make that be your focus and that’s going to keep you in it for the long haul.

Andrew: So on the flip side to our athletes listening that are sliding towards age 50 or maybe currently in their 50s or even older, what final words of wisdom would you share with them today just to kind of help them excel in the sport and enjoy triathlon for a long time to come?

Dede: I guess for me I think even if you’re not– if the joy is there and the love is there even if you’re not maybe as fast as you used to be you can still find joy and love in it. My days of even having the ability to qualify for the IRONMAN World Championship as a pro are numbered. I’ve come close a couple of times and it would be exciting to get to race there again as a pro. I don’t think I could realistically ever say I ever have a chance in heck of being in the top ten there, but that doesn’t mean that participation there is worthless. I think that your story continues to evolve and at least for me as I’ve gotten older in my career the things that I find value– The way I define success is slightly different, but I still think I’m successful. I just, as I said, turned in the second fastest bike split ever ridden by a woman in IRONMAN history at the age of 51. Now granted I rode like Tarzan, ran like Jane, but it didn’t end up being a great day overall and there’s things that I’d like to have back, but that’s a big piece of the puzzle. I went the fastest IRONMAN I’ve ever gone at the age of 51. The best time I’ve ever done as a triathlete at the IRONMAN distance and I did it at age 51 and it wasn’t perfect. So I just think that, yeah, you can get better in so many ways even if that doesn’t necessarily equate to getting faster. You can still get better.

Cool down theme: Great set everyone! Let’s cool down.

Andrew: For having two heavy hitters in the Ultraman scene we talked very little about Ultraman on this episode mostly because that just wasn’t our focus today. We will at some point do an Ultraman episode here on the TriDot podcast, but for today let’s kind of close out our show on the cooldown of this episode with just a quick nugget of Ultraman wisdom from each of you. I know we do have athletes in the TriDot family who like training for Ultraman, racing Ultraman. So Kurt you’re an Ultraman World Champion, Dede, you are an Ultraman world record holder so I guess both of you are fairly okay with going the distance. What would you say to athletes out there who are either currently training for Ultraman or interested in taking the giant step into that part of multisport? Kurt what do you think?

Kurt: I think it’s going to go back to when we started Ultraman and Dede’s touched on it. It’s the Ohana. It’s that mindset. It’s family. No one gets left behind. We’re going to finish it no matter how bad it gets. Don’t doubt yourself. Enjoy every single moment and I think that you’re going to surprise yourself that if you do the training that is necessary that you’re going to be able to cover those distances over three days.

Dede: I think I agree with Kurt 100%. I think for me the Ohana was a surprise. I know that they talked about it a lot going into it and I was like, “Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.” I didn’t realize how much it was going to impact me, the bond that I have, that I feel like I have now not only with the athletes who did Ultraman Florida, but with every Ultraman athlete in the world. I think that Ultraman now, and I may be overstating this slightly, but Ultraman now is what IRONMAN was back in the early ‘80s.

Andrew: Interesting.

Dede: It’s that small family. There’s not a huge volume of people doing it so you have this really unique, shared experience with this group of people who, to Kurt’s point, they’re all warriors. I don’t care what time on the clock they finished. I have so much respect for all of those people who have tackled that distance because it’s a journey and it’s a really special thing. To Kurt’s point also on the last topic, I didn’t even know there was such a thing as an Ultraman world record until the night before day three. My coach told me, “Hey if you run A, B, C you’re going to break the Ultraman world record.” And I was like, “Why would you tell me that?” It wasn’t– it was the furthest thing from my thought process when I signed up for the race. I wanted the experience and that’s still what I come away with and what hopefully at the end of my triathlon career I come away with. I had a coaching client ask me what my PR was for a 70.3. I had no idea and he was gobsmacked. He was like, “What do you mean you don’t know how fast you’ve ever gone in a 70.3?” I’m like, “Honestly no.” Because I don’t remember times like that. I remember races and battles that I was in with various competitors and things that I conquered for myself mentally over the course of various races, but the times are irrelevant. To Kurt’s point it’s the community. It’s the Ohana and whether that’s Ultraman, IRONMAN, whatever it is that’s what you’re going to come away from your career with are those memories. Not necessarily the memories of my split or the power I held or any of those factors.

Andrew: Well that’s it for today folks. I want to thank TriDot coach Kurt Madden and pro triathlete Dede Griesbauer for talking about excelling in triathlon as we age our way up and up and up. Enjoying the podcast? Have any triathlon questions or topics you want to hear us talk about? Head to TriDot.com/podcast and click on submit feedback to get your feedback to us here at the show. We’ll have a new show coming your way soon. Until then, Happy Training!

Outro: Thanks for joining us. Make sure to subscribe and share the TriDot podcast with your triathlon crew. For more great tri content and community, connect with us on Facebook, YouTube, and Instagram. Ready to optimize your training? Head to TriDot.com and start your free trial today! TriDot – the obvious and automatic choice for triathlon training.

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