Athlete to Triathlete: 8 Transition Stories from 8 Different Sports

TriDot Podcast Episode 262

Athlete to Triathlete - 8 Transition Stories from 8 Different Sports

Intro: This is the TriDot podcast. TriDot uses your training data and genetic profile, combined with predictive analytics and artificial intelligence to optimize your training, giving you better results in less time with fewer injuries. Our podcast is here to educate, inspire, and entertain. We’ll talk all things triathlon with expert coaches and special guests. Join the conversation and let’s improve together.

Andrew Harley: Hey everyone, welcome to the TriDot Podcast. This is a new one. This is a first for us. We have never, in 262 episodes, done a show like we're going to do today. We're going to talk. I've got one TriDot coach with me and we're going to be talking about how different sporting backgrounds can impact or affect your transition to triathlon. There's obviously a lot of sports out there and many of us play or participate in different sports before we became triathletes. And how does the sport that you came to triathlon from impact your experience as a triathlete? We're going to find out a little bit of that today. And the coach I have with me to talk this through is coach Matt Sommer. Matt is a founding TriDot Master Coach who works full-time as the fitness director at Alamance Country Club in Burlington, North Carolina. Matt has been coaching with TriDot since 2018 and podcasting since 2023. He co-hosts the Triathlon Age Group Journey podcast with a couple of fantastic co-hosts that he has. Matt, thanks so much for hopping on to do this with me. I'm curious if there are any particular sports you hope we hear about today?

Matt Sommer: First of all, Andrew, thanks for having me. It's always a pleasure to be on the podcast with you. You and I can always have a good time and we're never at a loss of words, you and me together. So looking forward to this one. Gosh, when I thought about this question, there are so many different sports out there. I mean, my athletic background was soccer and lacrosse. It was very much team sports. But it's amazing when I look at my roster of athletes and, you know, I always ask them, what are your athletic backgrounds? What did you do? Where did you come from? Being a runner, being a swimmer. Yeah, those are the most common, too. But I had collegiate softball players. I had rugby players. I had people that played squash. I had surfers. So, I mean, such a diverse background. And I think the common thread is sport. Just having the passion for sport, having the understanding of the life lessons that sports give us definitely translate to racing. And I know we're going to dive into all of that on a deeper level. But I'm super excited about this one. So thanks again for having me.

Andrew: Well, as always, we're going to start with our warm-up question. Settle in for that main set conversation running through 10 sports. And then we'll wind things down with me and Coach Matt on the cool down. Lots of good stuff, let’s get to it.

Warm up theme: Time to warm up! Let’s get moving.

Andrew: Okay, so giving credit where credit is due. I did not come up with today's warm-up question. I 100% saw this posted on the Instagram account for the T100 Triathlon Race Series. They do some great content, obviously featuring their pros. And I saw a video where they posed the following question to pro Taylor Knibb. And Taylor was literally on a training run, and they were following her with a camera and asked her this question. And she answered it mid-training session. What animal do you think would be the best at triathlon? And Matt, I have a lot of thoughts here. So I'm just going to step out of the way and let you go first before I chime in with my thoughts. Matt, what animal do you think of here, when posed this question?

Matt: Oh, jeez. I love the question. And, I mean, the first thing I thought of was the old fable, the tortoise and the hare. I mean, if you think about it, when you think about the tortoise and the hare, you've got the turtle who's slow, deliberate, steady. And you've got the hare that's just fast and furious. And at the end of the day, we all know triathlon's about a sport. It's not who goes the fastest. It's who slows down the least. So, again, the tortoise and the hare jumped out at me. But as I thought about it a little bit deeper, I was like, man, what animal really? And I think, you know, if we broke it down into short course and long course, I got two different animals because they're two completely different styles.

Andrew: Yeah, me too, me too.

Matt: For short course, I thought about a greyhound. They're sleek. They're lean. They're fast. I mean, explosive. All gas, no brakes. You know, I don't know much about dog racing. I don't even know if it's a thing. I'm not endorsing it. I'm not trying to, you know, I'm being real careful and political here.

Andrew: Thank you for that disclaimer. Yeah, thank you for that disclaimer.

Matt: But, I mean, to me, it's like when a dog races, it's like they run and run and run until they just can't go any farther and they just stop. I mean, we all have a dog that, when we're running it, it just keels over and says, okay, I'm done. You know? It's like a toddler. When they're done, they're done. So, greyhound to me is that short course athlete. Now, the long course athlete to me, and I thought about this, and I know this one may not make sense, is a donkey. Why? Because they're stubborn. They're slow and they're stubborn. And I think a long course athlete, just that mentality of sometimes it just takes the right amount of stubbornness to be really strong, to really kind of put things behind you. And just kind of keep moving forward despite adversity, despite the challenges you might go through. So, that stubbornness of a donkey resonated with me.

Andrew: Matt, with this question, you either take it literally or you're just going off of vibes, right? Because literally, what animal can actually swim, bike, and run? There's the meme that goes around, right? I'm sure you've seen it, that there's a famous meme in triathlon circles with a hippopotamus. And it's like hippos can swim faster than humans, and they can run faster than humans. So, the only chance that you have as a human at beating a hippopotamus in a triathlon is being able to bike better than the hippopotamus. And every time I see that meme, Matt, I get a little agitated. Because literally, that's not true. Literally, a hippopotamus cannot swim and run as long and far and fast as you can. It might for a short distance. But then, take that aside, a hippopotamus literally cannot ride a bike. It would break the bike. So, it's no contest.

Matt: That'd be fun to see.

Andrew: The hippopotamus would out-swim you, and then you would get on the bike, and the hippopotamus would stay stuck in T1. Race over. So, anyway, I always see that meme, and I get worked up about it. So, Taylor was taking the question literally, and you almost have to just go off of vibes here. And the only answer Taylor could come up with was a monkey. She's like, I think a monkey could do all those sports, so my answer is a monkey. Which isn't wrong. That's a good answer. But I was like you. I won't say too much, because I'm already saying a lot, and you and I, our reasoning is pretty much the same. But for a short course, I put down cheetah, and my answer is a camel, for all the reasons why you say donkey. And the camel, Matt, has the added benefit of carrying its own hydration already for long course.

Matt: Ah, integrated hydration system. How about that? I love it.

Andrew: The ultimate integrated hydration system. So, hey, guys, we're going to kick this question over to you, our audience. I'm going to pose this question to the I am TriDot Facebook group, and this question will also go to the triathlon community on the community hub. So, make sure you're in one or both of those areas. Find the question asking you, what animal do you think would be the best at triathlon? And, guys, just go off of vibes. Don't try to take this too literally. Just off of vibes, what animal do you think would be good at triathlon? Can't wait to see what you have to say.

Main set theme: On to the main set. Going in 3…2…1…

TRIDOT PODCAST MERCH (Andrew): I’m going to start off our main set with a really quick podcast announcement. We are, for the very first time, putting out some TriDot Podcast merch. You can officially buy and rep a TriDot Podcast run shirt. I genuinely love the run shirts put out by Varlo. They fit me just right, the material is fabulous for chilling or for running. So I actually approached Varlo and asked, could yall please make me some TriDot Podcast run shirts? And here we are, the sale is live as of September 30th, 2024, and will be up for two weeks. This is a limited edition TriDot Podcast run shirt sale. And as a bonus, Varlo was kind enough to create a TriDot Podcast tri-suit for me as well. So that’s on the store too. Check it out, the link is in the description. I’ll post it to the I Am TriDot Facebook group and the community hub. And hey, today, Monday September 30th is actually international podcast day. So it just feels like the perfect time to support the TriDot Podcast by repping one of our run shirts.

Andrew: All right so when we had the idea for this episode, man, we have so many athletes in the TriDot audience and the TriDot family that have just different sporting backgrounds. So I threw the question out to TriDot ambassadors and TriDot coaches, just opened-ended question, what sport have you participated and competed in in the past and how did it translate to your triathlon journey and experience? I was hoping to get like 10 to 12 really good answers that I could use in the podcast today. There are 30, 40, 50 fantastic comments, multiple sports represented, multiple personalities in the TriDot ambassador community that weighed in here. So, literally, guys, for this episode today, the first 10 submissions I received made the show today. I have more audio already from athletes. There's many of you whose posts I saw and messages I received and I just didn't have time to get back to you. So know this, we will do this episode again. I think this is going to be a part one, part two, part three kind of thing where we just circle back and maybe have Vanessa host part two with a different coach, and we just hear about 10 different sports and how those sports impacted different athletes as they transition to triathlon. So, we're going to roll through today and, Matt and I, what we'll do is we'll hear a soundbite from a different TriDot athlete just kind of saying how their sport impacted their triathlon journey, Matt and I will reflect on what we've heard, and we'll move on to the next one until we decide to call it a day. Be on the lookout, maybe in December, January, February we'll drop part two in this series Vanessa hosting and we'll use more of your clips. So, if you're an athlete that responded to my post and sent in an audio recording and it's not used today, know that it will get used on a future episode because we had a lot of really cool things that, frankly, I want to hear, how different sports impacted your tri journey. But Matt, before we get to the recordings, you already mentioned you played soccer and lacrosse. So just in 60 seconds, maybe, how did your experience in those sports impact your triathlon journey?

Matt: Wow. So, obviously, soccer, lacrosse, both team sports. So big difference there with a team sport versus triathlon, which many deem as an individual sport. I'll argue that all day long. We obviously have family, we have teammates, we have people, it's not an individual sport. We have a large group of people supporting us. At the end of the day, execution is individualized, but the team sport aspect. Working together, setting a common goal, working towards it, being disciplined to show up day in, day out, and work towards the common goal of winning a game, developing our skill sets. Whether it was soccer, lacrosse, or any other team sport, it's about practice. You know I’m always good for a quote, can’t help it here, the legendary Vince Lombardi, one of my all-time favorites. “Practice does not make perfect, only perfect practice makes perfect.” And I will use that. I kind of sit there, and I hold myself to that standard as an athlete, not just as a coach, of lead by example. Get out there, be in the trenches, do the workouts. I don't ever ask my athletes to do something I'm not willing to do. And I think that comes back to the leadership of the coach on the team, of being responsive and looking to them for guidance, support. Looking for them for constructive criticism, looking to them for that tough love. So I think all of that, I developed and honed in those abilities in team sports, how to take criticism. We live in a world, now, where everybody is super hyper sensitive and I think a background in sports, it's not criticism, necessarily, it's constructive criticism. How to make you better and receive it, and how to take it and use it to harness a better version of yourself. So, sport, to me, really set the platform for stepping into. Started as a runner, and then got into cycling, and then, at 30 years old, I did my first triathlon.

Andrew: And this answer, for me, my sporting background is soccer and tennis. I was okay at soccer, I was pretty good at tennis. The main thing I'll share, just from my tennis experience, what carried over from tennis is just, in tennis, your foundation for success in the sport is built on the back of the unglamorous consistency and repetition. It's going out to the court multiple times a week and just knocking out 500 serves, and then going to class. It's standing at the net while your coach just feeds you shot after shot, after shot, and you're just knocking down forehand volley, forehand volley, forehand volley, forehand volley, forehand volley. It's rallying back and forth the same shots. The matches are fun to watch, right? It's always fun to fire up Wimbledon and watch the five set matches with the guys and the three set epic matches with the girls. And it's those epic moments that you see, that are celebrated, come from those players just, in practice, every single day, repetition, repetition, repetition, and staying consistent. And you don't master a skill and move on to another skill. Serena Williams and Roger Federer, deep into their careers, had to continue practicing their serve, continue practicing their volleys, continue practicing the same types of shots over and over again. You don't say, "I'm a good server, I'm not going to touch that in practice anymore." No, you have to keep continually, continually keep that skill sharpened. It's the same with triathlon. You have to keep your transition skills on point, you have to keep getting yourself set up in T1 skills sharpened up. You have to stay on top of your fueling and hydration. You don't master anything, you have to stay on top. So anyway, those are kind of my quick lessons from my tennis. Anyway, our first one today. I put this one first because, full credit to TriDot Coach Cari Lubenow, but she was the inspiration for this episode. We were on a team call and Cari's coach, Ryan Tibball, made a comment about Cari being such a strong swimmer because of her synchronized swimming background. And I was like, that's fascinating, I never would have thought about those two sports carrying over in that way, and it kind of became the inspiration for this episode. So I put Cari on the show first. Here is Cari Lubenow talking about her background in synchronized swimming.

Cari Lubenow: Hi there, Coach Cari Lubenow here, calling in from Sutton, Massachusetts. Before becoming a triathlete, I was a collegiate synchronized swimmer. When I decided to trade in my gelatin-covered bun for battle braids after college, I found that my synchro background actually set me up quite nicely to hit the ground running in the sport of triathlon. Now there are some obvious ways that synchro directly translated into becoming a triathlete, namely the swim experience, background in strength, conditioning, and mobility work, and the strong cardiac base that I developed as a synchronized swimmer. There are also some less obvious parallels, such as the time management skills and appreciation for the important role of nutrition. And of course, there were some skills that did not carry over at all. For instance, I spent years working to perfect my toe points, only to switch sports, find that my default position on the bike was now to point my toes, and then learn that this was not optimal for transferring power into my pedals. Breath holding was another skill that didn't transfer, though dropping those hypoxic training sets for my swim workouts was a much easier transition than kicking that toe point. One of the biggest strengths that synchro taught me was how to calmly focus on what I can control, even during moments of chaos. When performing team routines, synchronized swimmers are very close to each other in the water, performing corresponding movements and choreography that must be, well, synchronized. What one athlete is doing is going to be directly impacted by what the rest of the athletes around them are doing. And the higher the level of the performance, the smaller the margin for error. This is what makes synchro a contact sport, though of the friendly fire kind of variety. I've been kicked, hit, elbowed, landed on, and even once somehow managed to get a teammate's foot stuck inside the top of my swimsuit as she kicked and tugged furiously trying to free herself, but that's a story for another day. Being able to process, respond, and move on from these moments of chaos to continue performing has not only set me up to be confident in handling the washing machine of triathlon swims, but has also given me the skill set to confidently and promptly manage other challenges that come my way on race day. Synchro has also instilled in me the practice of being prepared for things to go wrong. While swim throughs with no nose clips or with the underwater speaker unplugged always felt a bit torturous during our practices, my team was prepared for how to handle ourselves when issues did come up during competition without being completely caught off guard. Similarly, some things are going to go wrong on the triathlon race course, it's a fact of life. And having the skill set of pivoting and adjusting your plan in response to the uncontrollables is something we should all be practicing in our training. Finally, synchro is really the epitome of a team sport, and when I moved to triathlon, I was worried that this was going to feel like a very solo sport, and I knew that I really wanted to have that continued sense of community and family. I think having a coach you trust and a team to answer your questions, sharing your successes, and support you along the journey is essential to longevity within the sport. So, I wanted to just share a huge thank you to the TriDot community for helping me find my team and my family in the world of triathlon, and to my coach, Ryan Tibball for helping this synchronized swimmer transform into a triathlete.

Andrew: Matt, this is a fascinating one to me, and Cari, that is a very thorough clip in her analysis of how the places were carried over and the places it didn't. Which it was interesting to hear that there were some form issues on the bike based on her experience in synchronized swimming, and, Matt, what are your thoughts here listening to what Cari had to say there?

Matt: As a coach, I love the beauty of athleticism. I don't care what the sport is, I can appreciate athleticism. Dancing, oh my gosh, I'm terrible at it. But the athleticism, the coordination, the balance, the skill. And I think the common thread on all of these is the discipline of training. And for Cari, the way she explained the breathing. I’m sorry, those that know me well, I don't like having my head underwater. I want oxygen. It is my biggest fault in my swimming, is my breathing. I want air. We're meant to breathe. I don't want to be underwater. So watching them do that and have the core strength and the movements. She nailed it. It's a lot of what we call, and you were talking about this with your tennis, skill acquisition. Repetition after repetition, after repetition creates muscle memory. Neurological things, paths, the motor learning theory. Things we can't break overnight. And for her to recognize that, oh my gosh, when I started pedaling a bike my toes point. That is not an easy habit to break, you know? When you do something repetitive, repetitive, repetitive, but for that sport it was correct, now you translate to another one, it is not easy. That is why swimming, in particular, the skill acquisition, if you've done it wrong for 10 years and all of a sudden somebody tries to break it, it doesn't change in a week. So, I mean, great analysis, bringing in nutrition, tying that in, power, everything, I love it. I thought that was excellent

Andrew: The other thing that really stood out to me that I would not have thought of, was the way she talked about, in synchronized swimming, you have to have such an awareness of the swimmers around you, and how that carried over to triathlon. Because in the swim, the bike, and the run, you have an impact on the athletes around you and vice versa. It only takes one other cyclist swerving in front of you while you're trying to go around them before you realize that. One person moving out of step in accordance with everybody else can throw the rhythm of all the athletes around them off for that moment. So that was interesting as well, is that component of it. So, moving on to sport number two, we have Coach Michael Fenton. Long-time TriDot Ambassador, is now coaching triathletes himself. He's out of the Houston, Texas area and he grew up playing a variety of sports. Here's Michael Fenton, talking about hockey.

Michael Fenton: Hey everyone, it's Coach Michael Fenton from Spring, Texas, but I was born and raised in Canada. Like most Canadian kids that grew up playing hockey, the lower body strength I've developed over the years has definitely transferred over to the bike, allowing for some great spike splits. Besides powerful legs, some of the intangible skills I learned, like grit and toughness, have been even more valuable to me in triathlon. I remember one tournament where I got hit into the boards awkwardly and felt a pain in my shoulder. It wasn't too bad, so I just kept playing the rest of the tournament, but I went to my chiropractor the next week and found out I had separated my shoulder, and it was now too late to do anything about it. I often think of that when I was suffering during a race or a hard workout, and it reminds me not to give up and keep pushing. As I got older and realized I wasn't going to make the NHL, I focused on playing every sport I possibly could. In high school, I played hockey, baseball, golf, volleyball, badminton, curling, and broomball. Playing multiple sports helped develop different muscles and mobility, which has helped keep me injury-free in triathlon. Another benefit I learned doing all those sports was time management. Multiple practices and games every week for the different sports made me learn quickly how to manage my time properly and prioritize the important things in life. Being a husband, father of two middle schoolers, coach, athlete, and working a full-time job that requires me to travel on short notice, sometimes, is not an easy task. If it wasn't for the years of practice, I would never be able to manage all these tasks and still succeed at them all.

Andrew: The grit factor of hockey players will never be called into question, and so that carrying over to triathlon where the grit factor will also never be called into question definitely makes sense right away. Great insight from Coach Michael there. The other thing, Matt, that really struck out to me, was at the end when he was talking about the variety of sports he played and just the variety of movements that were involved helping him stay injury-free. Dr. BJ Leeper on our staff, and I'm sure for you with your strength training background, you know this as well. We, in triathlon, are such sagittal plane beasts. We move forward, we move forward, we move forward. We don't go side to side. And when BJ talks about injury prevention and athletes, that's one of the things he recommends, is go to a playground and play with your kids, go to a basketball court and hoop it up a little bit. Get your body moving in a variety of ways, and man, it's gonna make a huge difference. So for Michael to call that out was very interesting to me. What else stood out to you there, Matt?

Matt: Michael hit every aspect of where I think team sport develops us as people. He talked about the mental side, the grit, the tenacity, the toughness that you gotta develop of getting up when the going gets tough. He talked about the time management aspect of being able to balance things and really prioritize what's really important in life. He mentioned his family first, I love that, and it really teaches you those things. And then I also think, and I agree 100%, BJ and I are on the same wavelength. I love talking with him. With the strength and conditioning background. It's way too early to specialize in one sport with our youth. Get out there and play. I love all the different sports, not just the sagittal plane. Multi-planar, frontal plane, sagittal plane, the transverse plane, moving side to side, turning laterally, strengthening all the muscles, the ligaments, the tendons. It's so much injury prevention in just getting out there and having fun.

Andrew: Well, Matt, up next, sport number three represented today is the sport of rowing. But buckle in here for a couple minutes because we have a double header on rowing. And I made it a double header because we have Lauren LeBlanc who you coach, Matt. You coach Lauren LeBlanc. You know her very well.

Matt: ‘Lay badass’, her nickname, yeah.

Andrew: And she is now a TriDot coach, now working with athletes, and a great TriDot ambassador. Lauren was the coxswain of her rowing team. And then we have a TriDot ambassador, Jamie Furman, is our second athlete here. He was an actual rower on his rowing team. So it's two perspectives from the same sport. And I'm just going to play them back to back, Lauren and Jamie, and we will discuss after that.

Lauren LeBlanc: Hello, TriDot. This is Lauren LeBlanc coming at you. As some of you may know, I was a coxswain on the Grand Valley rowing team back in undergrad. I've been involved in athletics for most of my life, but I wanted to share in particular some ways that being a part of Grand Valley Rowing translated to becoming a triathlete. As a coxswain, you act as a coach in the boat, and I became quite good at finding a strong inner voice and words that would help push our athletes to their limits in races. In triathlon, while racing and in practice, I often find that same inner voice I used for others coming through for me, the push, the focus, and the drive, as well as the willingness to keep going even when it hurts. Also, I learned even back in high school swimming, but in particular at Grand Valley, the power of the early morning and the beauty of being up with the sun. That resilience and willingness to fit in the work continues to serve me well. As a coxswain in particular, we met with the coaches even earlier to review the practice and our intentions for that practice. Understanding the importance of going into each workout with a mindset and a focus has been very helpful in me dialing in my efforts. Despite being a coxswain, I always completed our winter erg workouts with the team. Anyone who has spent any amount of time on an erg will tell you it is a lesson in grit and toughness, and one I carry with me today. During my years at Grand Valley, we practiced and raced in many different types of weather: rain, wind, water, air so cold your eyes and jacket were frozen over with crystals, heat, humidity, choppy water, you name it, we did it. I often think that helped shape my attitude regarding race day weather and my ability to stay calm in less than ideal circumstances. Lastly, we often traveled for races across the country, and even across the world for the Royal English Henley, and that is something I continue to enjoy with triathlon.

Jamie Furman: Hey everyone, this is Jamie Furman from Chicago, Illinois. I've been a TriDot athlete for three years, an ambassador for two, and I'm also a pool school coach. A former collegiate rower at Washington University in St. Louis, I got my start in triathlon after graduating and moving to Chicago. The early morning workouts and frequent double sessions that were a staple of my rowing career translated to success in triathlon. Rowing taught me time management skills, specifically how to fit in so many workouts each week while managing personal and professional responsibilities. Rowing taught me how to push myself to my limits, as anyone who has done a 2k knows. Although far shorter than a triathlon at only six to eight minutes, that's some of the most pain I've ever been in, and I have those moments to look back on when I'm embracing the hurt during a hard workout or race. I started using a heart rate monitor while rowing and learned about the importance of training zones and how to recover properly from different efforts. From a fitness perspective, rowing developed both my cardiovascular and muscular systems, which are crucial to each of triathlon's disciplines. We actually did quite a bit of cycling and stair climbing as cross-training, which is super helpful for hillier courses, and those lat pulldowns come in handy for swimming. Where rowing did involve more strength, and I lift less now than I did then, I'm glad I learned how to do so effectively to build strength in my legs during the late stages of the run. Finally, I love the community and environment at larger regattas and have found similar enjoyment traveling for triathlons. Just like rowers understand what they all go through, so do triathletes, and I'm so grateful to be part of such an amazing community of determined people.

Andrew: This is a sport, Matt, where, and Jamie said it well, like he's never been in that kind of pain. No matter what the distance is as a rower, you are borderline blocking out at the end of your race, right? It's just that kind of VO2 max event that translates well to triathlon for a number of reasons. And I love the bit where Lauren talked about, as the coxswain, as she put, I didn't know that was the slang term for it, but as the coxswain for her team I love that she went and did the workouts with the girls. She wasn't in the boat rowing, she was in the boat coaching, cheering, pacing, giving commands, but she needed to know what those girls were feeling when they were deep into their race, deep into the hurt locker, so that she knew what to say to them in those moments. Just really fascinating stuff there from Lauren and Jamie, what do you want to say about it, Matt?

Matt: Proud dad moment hearing Lauren talk. I've worked with her now for three years, and I can tell you she emulates in her daily actions everything she talked about. I can see where sport and her experience with rowing have made her a stronger triathlete she has what I call that third gear, it's the word that I use with my athletes, in particular, of digging deep. That first gear is physical, when you say kick it up another notch and find that second gear, that's physical. I always say third gear, you gotta find it, that's mental, emotional. It's harnessing the mental and the emotional with the physical and being able to dig deeper than you ever had, and almost going numb, and just kind of being in the zone. She has that innate ability to do that. Several of my athletes have developed and honed that skill, and that, sometimes, is the difference between good and great. I love hearing how she talked about that, because I'm so proud of her for everything she's overcome and everything she continues to do. Also hearing Jamie talk about the physical prowess, all the lat pulldowns, all the strength, all the power. I mean rowing is such an amazing sport. Anybody that's ever spent time on a rowing ergometer doesn't spend usually more than three to five minutes before they get off and are like yeah I'll get back on the treadmill. It really is that full body workout, and they're tough athletes. Again, the parallels that we keep seeing between everything now, synchronized swimming, the hockey, the rowing, the teamwork, the commitment, the discipline, the structure. Again, this all goes back to sport in general. I love it, I think it's great.

Andrew: Our next sport, here is a State of Texas Vault Champ Jessica Baxter talking about gymnastics carrying over to triathlon.

Jessica Baxter: Hi, this is Coach Jessica. I grew up a gymnast and was in competitions for many years, and the biggest takeaway that I have from that sport into triathlon is the connection of mind and body, and really understanding how to move muscles and activate different muscles and correct form. And then another thing is power, I have a lot of power due to gymnastics, and a lot of muscle memory from those days that translate well onto the bike. Not so much my run, just because that's always been a weakness of mine, but it does translate for a good bike. I'm grateful for that. But yeah, so that's that.

Andrew: Matt, I wish I had grown up with some sort of power-based sport where I had better cycling legs than I do because, man, you can't fabricate those later in life, that's for sure. Yeah, you watch gymnasts compete and there's no question that that's a power event through and through, full body. To hear her talk about that marrying of power to attention to form, man, what a combination for a triathlete, right?

Matt: Yeah, I mean, it's funny. When you look at certain sports, and I'm going to get a little physiological here, we got type one, type two muscle fibers, okay. And if you think about it, when you look at somebody that's like a type two fast twitch muscle fiber, your sprinters, maybe your gymnasts, your wrestlers, they're those short explosive, short duration things. And then you got your slow twitch type one, they're going to be your distance runners, they might be more team sports, okay. They have a little bit more aerobic endurance, oxygen carry capacity, you know. So you can look at those, and a lot of times, our body shape kind of matches our sport. You got your short stocky wrestlers, you know, that are typically your running backs, those short stocky guys. Your gymnasts are usually very trim and very just muscular, and it's explosive, short duration. So that might translate, your type two muscle fibers might be better at short course, shorter, more explosive, shorter duration, whereas you look at your long marathoners, they don't have those real tight, they're not sprinters, you know, they can go longer, not quite as explosive. For her to bring up that power aspect of having a strong bike split but not necessarily being a good distance runner. Again, nature, nurture, there's a lot of arguments out there in the world of ex-phys. But again, with the right training, we definitely can develop and harness those skills and make ourselves better if we commit to it.

Andrew: Yep, and yeah, thank you, Coach Jessica, for that peek at gymnastics. Some great stuff that carried over there. Our next one, Coach Matt, is soccer. This is Danielle Fagan, and she actually, Matt, she's a TriDot ambassador, and she works at a soccer training facility, so has it strongly in her background, played collegiately. I'm sure she'll give us the details there, but she is a Team Zooter and a TriDot ambassador. Can't wait to hear Danielle talk about soccer, so here we go.

Danielle Fagan: Hi, this is Danielle Fagan from King of Prussia, Pennsylvania. I competed as a collegiate soccer player before becoming a triathlete, and now I'm a full-time soccer coach. Some of the things that have translated from the soccer world into becoming a triathlete have been my ability to run for a long time and the endurance training portion. And, believe it or not, kicking and being kicked has translated into the triathlon world, but mostly in the swimming portion. Although, I did have to modify the way I kick, because it is different kicking in the water than kicking a soccer ball. Soccer being a physical contact sport has helped me navigate the open water swim portion of the races with all the people around me and kicking me, inadvertently, of course. Some of the main lessons that I've taken from soccer and applied to my time as a triathlete have been twofold. One, there are no timeouts in soccer, and there are certainly no timeouts in triathlon. Also, the weather. In soccer, we train and play in all kinds of weather. It doesn't matter if it's raining, if it's too hot, if it's too cold. The same thing applies in triathlon with all of my training and racing. One of my favorite memories as a soccer player was as a 12-year-old, we were in a tournament, and it was pouring rain. This was back in the '80s before we had all the cool tech that we have now and waterproof gear. So we went out and we got trash bags and we poked armholes and a head hole in there. We got some masking tape, put our numbers on the back, and somehow they passed as uniform jerseys, and the refs let us play the whole weekend in trash bags. It has forever been known as the trash bag tournament. It really did help in my racing. I mean, training, I could always quit if I wanted to, or just train inside, but racing, it's going to be outside. In 2018, when I did Ironman Atlantic City 70.3 and it was raining, it didn't matter so much on the swim because I was already getting wet, but on the bike, I had to deal with it, and on the run. So it's been super helpful to just know that the game must go on, the race must go on, training must go on, and I have loved being a triathlete and using all of my skills from being a soccer player and all the lessons that I've learned.

Andrew: Matt, I think every soccer player has their go-to story for the worst weather they've ever played in. Matt, you played soccer yourself. What were your thoughts hearing Danielle talk about it?

Matt: All right, so full disclosure, I was a keeper. I didn't have to do all the running. So the cardiovascular, I mean, we ran, but it wasn't up and down, up and down the field. It was more speed, agility, quickness, left to right. And, again, I was always a bigger guy, so it was the height and it was the size, and I was not afraid to go get the ball. And I had good hands, I always had really good hands. That's, I think, why they tried to recruit me to come play tight end, because I was a big guy that could run in football. ‘Hey son, you need to come play football.’ Every year, every year. Weather is funny. Now, where I'm gonna go with weather on this one is, I'm a soccer dad now. My son was an All-State soccer player in North Carolina from the time he was four, he's in college now. We spectated and, oh my goodness, spectating when it was 90 degrees, and then spectating when it was 16 degrees. I would have rather been out there playing than spectating. So kudos to all the parents that are standing on the sidelines through the peewee games, the high school games, the middle school games, the college games. But yeah great sport, and I mean I thought Danielle did a great job just talking about the teamwork, and the power, and the aerobic conditioning. And also, again, the physical aspect. It's funny, Andrew, have you noticed everybody's talking about the physical prowess that they gain from sport, which leg of triathlon is it the most beneficial? The swim. I've never experienced a swim where we're throwing fists. You know, the physicality of it, it's just nothing I've ever experienced, personally. So maybe, again, I've been in the sport for a little while, but I'm glad I haven’t experienced it. I don't think it's something I do want to experience.

Andrew:  I wonder how many people are that are averse to that contact in the water, maybe were averse to that in their team sport background. Maybe there's something there, maybe there's not, somebody smarter than me should study it. My main takeaway that I don't think you said, I don't think Danielle said, was the way in soccer you have to learn how to recover while you're still running, to me, translates very well to triathlon. Because, you know, you never stop in triathlon, right? And all of our workouts do that. Your workouts put you in zone four, then back to zone two. Zone five, back to zone two. Zone six, back down to zone three. And what it's teaching you, it's teaching your body how to recover in zone two and three where you're still working.

Matt: That's great insight.

Andrew: Because there’s going to be that hill you have to climb, and in soccer, that's the whole bit, right? I mean, you're running for a 90-minute match and you're rarely walking. So coaches go out of their way to do things where you're recovering at a jog and then picking up the intensity for a short burst.

Matt: That's great insight right there. I didn't think about that myself because, obviously, me being in the goal…

Andrew:  You were the goalkeeper.

Matt: Exactly, exactly. But no, I mean, that's a great insight there to think about how that parallels into triathlon training having the soft recoveries. So, yeah.

Andrew: Alright our next sport, and I know this TriDot/RunDot Ambassador very well, this is Dr. Jeff Krebs. He's been a podcast guest before, as a medical doctor helping us learn how to stay healthy and be able to train throughout the year, flu season, cold season, all that jazz. He was a great guest on that episode. He had figure skating in his background. So, very interested to hear what Dr. Jeff Krebs has to say about how figure skating translated into his experience as a triathlon athlete and as a marathoner. Here is figure skating.

Jeff Krebs: Hi, I'm Jeff Krebs from San Diego, California. Before I was a triathlete, I was a cyclist, but prior to that, I was a competitive figure skater. My route to triathlon was not, probably, the typical one. When I was 10 years old, my sister was eight, and she started taking figure skating lessons. I begged my parents to let me go and skate with her. It turns out that, after a couple of weeks, my sister quit, but I continued with the lessons and I became extremely good at it, and that's when my athletic career took off. I competed through college, through medical school, and actually during my residency, at a very high level. I took four months off during my internal medicine residency to train for U.S. national competition. During that time, I had a really bad fall and dislocated my shoulder, but also broke the head of my humerus. So, I went in for surgery and that really ended my skating days. As soon as I could, I started jumping on a stationary bike, and that led to my cycling career. I got very serious about cycling. I did that for quite a while, and I was a good cyclist, because my skating days had led to some really strong legs. When I was 52 years old, however, I went to UC San Diego's Endurance Sports Lab, and I was diagnosed with osteopenia. So, I was advised at that time to start running at least once a week, and it turned out that, because of my cycling and because of my skating days, I was a really good runner. Actually, I'm a better runner than I am cyclist. A friend of mine, who's a triathlete, pointed out that, "Hey Jeff, you're a great cyclist, and you're an even better runner, you should do triathlon." I had never swam in my life, never learned how, and the next day, after that friend suggested it, I decided to go to the YMCA, sign up for swimming lessons. Two months later, I did my first Olympic distance triathlon and have not looked back since. I have competed in seven full distance Ironman races, and too numerous to count 70.3s, sprints, and Olympic distance races.

Andrew: Matt, we're seeing a trend here with a lot of these sports, right? And I think specifically to synchronized swimming, I think specifically to Michael talking about hockey, Jessica talking about gymnastics, and now Jeff talking about figure skating, where they attribute power on the bike, strength on the run, to strong legs from the sport that they competed in. These athletes have strong bodies head to toe, they have strong bases in their legs down there that you don't even realize it as a spectator unless you're the one seeing them in practice or competing in the sport. And figure skating for me is one of those. I wouldn't have connected the dot on, yeah, they have to have, if you ever put on figure skates, those things are heavy. Put a pair of those on and then go watch what they're doing in them, and yeah, it makes a lot of sense. So, those strong legs from figure skating translating into strong running and strong cycling for Dr. Jeff Krebs makes a lot of sense to me. Matt, what stood out to you here?

Matt: I agree, once again, the power aspect from all these sports, and the strength in the legs obviously translates to the running and the cycling. I think what jumped out to me on Dr. Krebs there, and this is a great perspective, because, let's think about this. We all rode bikes as kids recreationally. Yeah, we threw them down in our neighbor's yard, that's how you knew everybody was there, everybody's bike was laying in the front yard, at least when I grew up.

Andrew: But now, Matt, it's scooters. I don't know about your neighborhood, in my neighborhood, you see this, it's like little scooter gangs, you'll see like four teenagers get on the road on their electric scooters. Yeah, that's, anyway.

Matt: Love it. But everybody just rode bikes for fun, we didn't race bikes as kids. We don't discover our passion or our abilities. Typically, when do you get on a bike? When you're injured. When you're running, and most sports include running as part of the sport, or something with the knees or the hips. And when we injure an ankle, knee, or a hip, and we're rehabbing it, one of the most common modes that we put people on to help recover them, because it's non-weight bearing, is on a bike. Whether it's stationary or recumbent. So, a lot of people don't realize, wow, I kind of like this, or wow, I'm pretty good at this, until it becomes the only thing they can do because running might have been taken away from them because of an injury. So I think in Jeff's part he discovered I got on the bike because I couldn't do these other things, and I liked it, and I was really good at it. And the next thing you know, here he is doing this. And then it became I can run too, i'm really good at this. So I think the cycling, because we don't cycle, we don't race bikes. Most kids don't grow up doing criteriums, or crits, and just going out there and doing road racing. They fall into it, a lot of times, because they're recovering from another injury, or maybe it's just something, maybe I'm wrong. I don't know, but I think that was a neat pathway for him to get on to the bike to discover. And I think that's more common than we think, is, oh I had a different injury and I got on the bike, and I discovered I liked it, because it's what I could do while I couldn't do the other things.

Andrew: We promised 10 at the end of the episode. I'm looking at the clock, we try to keep these episodes to about an hour. Again, we haven't done something like this before, so I didn't know how long Matt and I were going to talk about each of these, but I'm going to do two more, Matt, which is going to get us to eight, which feels good. The other ones that we don't use today, and the other ones we've received, again, we're going to pick back up with a similar episode like this in a couple months time with Vanessa hosting, just to make it a little bit different. Get a splash of Vanessa and give Andrew and Matt a day off. But this has been a lot of fun, Matt. This has been really cool to hear, and I'm curious to continue hearing more sports and from more perspectives. I've got two more today. So this next one is Olympic Silver Medalist in Triathlon, Ironman Champion Michellie Jones from Giddy-Up Racing. From France, Michellie sent us a little message about dressage, how dressage and her participation in that sport carried over to her triathlon endeavors. Here we go.

Michellie Jones: Hi, this is Michellie Jones. When I was growing up, I was an equestrian. That's how I first started sport. I grew up with horses, so the one thing about horse riding, it gives you a really, really strong core. It teaches you coordination. It definitely teaches you balance. And the one important thing with bike riding, as well, is where you look is where you will go, and that's the same as riding the horse. And there's actually a lot of horse riders that make very, very good bike riders. I think it's the way that you have to use your seat bones, the way that you use your legs, and also your core, and also good posture. So I think that also helps in all avenues and aspects of triathlon, because core engagement and good posture is so important. And then my other talent identification, even though I did grow up doing running in high school, so I did anything from the 400 up to the 3000 on the track, and then I also ran cross country. Sometimes having a single sport discipline that you're successful at, where I was state champion, but my actual talent identification for sport was in race walking. Not sure how that correlates to anything. But one thing I think that equestrian does also teach, it teaches you discipline. It teaches you to be well planned. It teaches you that you've always got to follow through with a commitment, because you always have to look after that animal. I was always taught that the animals actually come first. But also the strength component, like carrying big buckets of water to the horse's stables, even mucking out their stores with the wheelbarrow. There's definitely a lot of strength that is encompassed when you are handling the horses and also taking care of them. So yeah, I think I really, as a kid, I probably had three things that I really focused on. Of course horse riding, I gave that up when I started doing triathlon, race walking. Thankfully I found triathlon, and then doing that little bit of running in high school, as well. And I think it was my high school run coach, he was the one that saw something and he suggested I do triathlon. So, sometimes it's also a destiny that somebody points you in the right direction.

Andrew: I want to bet, Matt, that any athlete out there in the equestrian field of athletics that is used to caring for a live animal like a horse, I imagine they're a whole lot better at keeping their bike maintained and keeping their equipment taken care of than the rest of us. I would not have thought of that, I'm glad Michellie mentioned it, but yeah, a lot of really cool stuff here. I've got a couple notes but would love to hear, Matt, what you thought of Michellie talking about equestrian.

Matt: Andrew, I swear we're brothers from another mother, man. Because I was thinking the same thing, like she was the first one to really echo, the whole, taking care of your equipment, ie the horse. And that is such a big part of our sport I mean I always preach, I use the word preach because, you can ask my athletes, I preach on this.

Andrew: It is a sermon.

Matt: Take care of your bike. Rinse it weekly, wash it, take care of it, because next thing you know, the sweat is going to corrode it, erode it, and you're going to have a lot more money spent. But taking care of your gear. I mean, yes, the horse, the most important thing. But whether it's baseball, your bat, your glove. Whether it's swimming, your goggles; hockey, your stick. Motorcycle, whatever your sport might be. Rowing. I mean, you got to take care of your equipment. My parents taught me at a young age if you don't take care of it, you don't have it. You don't have it, we're not replacing it. So it's ownership, and I think that's, again, that's such a big part of our sport, is taking care of your equipment. Making sure you keep up with it and it's in good standing condition.

Andrew: Last one for today, and I've got three clips in front of me. Matt, I've gone back and forth on which one to share. Matt how about I let you pick to close out today? Because, again, we're going to use all these clips on a different episode to hear about more sports. Matt, are you more interested in hearing about motorcycle racing, basketball, or roller derby?

Matt: You know, no offense, I like motorcycle racing and roller derby, but I want to hear about basketball, because I know the person that did this clip, and their perspective, and their background. I'm a huge fan of this individual, so that's why I'm going with basketball.

Andrew: Alright, so, Simon Williams, who recorded about motorcycle racing, that'll be on the next version of this episode. Julie Ramsey, who talked about roller derby, that will be on the next version of this episode. We've got some folks who did marching band, we've got folks that did a lot of other sports that haven’t been mentioned today that will be on the second, part two version of this. Again, not lesser sports, not lesser clips, just the ones that were kicking to the next version of this podcast episode. We'll shut it down today hearing about basketball with Dr. BJ Leeper.

BJ Leeper: So back in the day, well before I ventured into the realm of endurance sports and triathlon, I was a basketball player. I played basketball all the

way through college. And I remember thinking, back in the day, if we had to run, whether it was for pre-season conditioning, or for punishment and practice, running was always considered the four-letter word. Had you asked me at that time if I would ever get into a sport that involved a lot of running, I would have said you were crazy. I remember in pre-season conditioning, even for basketball, we would often go out for runs, and we would consider, like, a two to three mile run just a long way. And we would even do time trial tests for the one mile just to make sure that everybody was staying in shape during the off season, and I remember thinking that one mile just felt like forever. Now, as a triathlete, you consider that distance and you just think that's nothing. So, what was funny that it didn't translate would be the amount of running that I'd eventually get into. But what I think did translate as a basketball player, and growing up, and all those hard practices, is just the work effort involved and facing tough things, tough situations, and the dedication to the training. Dedication to working to get better. But also not being overwhelmed by the situation. I remember one of the things our coach would always say, he would operate by the KISS principle, and he always would joke ‘Keep It Simple Stupid’. I think that mantra would even stick with me as I got into the sport of triathlon. Just not being overwhelmed by the situation, the task at hand, but just keeping it simple and being dedicated to that hard work. So I think there's a lot of ways it translated, but in general, two very different sports. The team aspect of basketball is very different. Even though you work with coaches and other people to help you get better in the sport of triathlon, it's very much an individual sport. So there is a difference there, but I think the hard work and effort required is definitely a parallel as far as being dedicated to the craft, and into getting better and improving your performance.

Andrew: Matt, you picked this one over some of the others. What did you think of BJ weighing in on basketball?

Matt: I love it. I think the mental piece was the biggest thing that jumped out at me. It was a basketball player, actually, it's another one of my favorite quotes, Damian Lillard actually said this. I think it was, and I don't want to butcher it, it was, ‘if you want to look good in front of thousands, you have to outwork thousands in front of nobody.’ And it's like that perfect practice, again, it goes back to that, of showing up day in, day out, and putting the work in and not being afraid of failure. Failure is one of those things, you can look at it as a roadblock or as an opportunity to improve yourself. I think sport teaches that. And I hate the word ‘fail’. It's not a word I choose to use. In my world, that's a four-letter word. I don't let my athletes use it. We call it learning experiences. The first time you do it, it was a choice. No, I’m sorry. The first time you did it, it was a mistake. The second time, it becomes a choice. So let's learn from that. But hearing BJ talk about that and putting in the time and the effort. I love it. I think that just parallels all the sports we've talked about today. It's fascinating the constant themes amongst all the diverse sports, whether they be individual, team. I look at all the different sports we talked about today. Soccer, figure skating, gymnastics, rowing, hockey, synchronized swimming, you with tennis, Dr. Leeper with basketball, dressage, and then me bringing in lacrosse even. None of them were swimmers. Maybe the synchronized swimming. But the swimming, the cycling, the running, and how everybody now has a common thread of triathlon and the passion for the sport. It's amazing

Andrew: Matt, I'm putting you on the spot, but to shut down our main set, I loved BJ's quote where he said he learned from basketball not to be overwhelmed by the moment. You can picture whatever guy or gal is taking the last shot with the clock about to expire, or standing on the free throw line trying to make a couple free throws, with all eyes in the arena on you. In basketball, there's a lot of not being overwhelmed by the moment. And in triathlon, you're standing, sometimes, on the edge of a boat about to jump into San Francisco Harbor, you're treading water before a mass swim start, you're standing on the edge of a pool for your first sprint pool swim with tons of other triathletes and spandex around you. There's a lot of not being overwhelmed by the moment to get yourself into the water, get yourself onto the bike, get yourself onto the run course, get yourself across the finish line. As a coach, what do you think of that quote, learning how to not be overwhelmed by a moment?

Matt: I love it. I think that is a very hard skill for people to learn. I think it can be developed. It's definitely something that has to be practiced, as with every other aspect of racing, whether it's swim, bike, or run. To me, that's the one of the biggest things I work with my athletes on, is the mental game. I think the difference between good and great can be the mental piece. I think those that can stay strong mentally and not get overwhelmed, to use BJ's words, in the moment, and can keep their composure and stay focused, that's what separates. When adversity shows its face, and it always shows its face on race day, how you react to it, how you handle, how you pivot the decisions you make are going to translate to either success or setbacks on race day and in training. So I think that's a great skill and a great thing that we all need to practice. It’s not necessarily trying to get faster, not trying to get more powerful, not trying to improve that stroke, but how we react to adversity and how we mentally handle the stressors that come at us. I think that team sport teaches that as a kid, from youth. How do we handle this? What decisions do we make?

Cool down theme: Great set everyone! Let’s cool down.

Andrew: If you listen to the Triathlon Age Group Journey Podcast, you already know Coach Matt is always good for a nugget of wisdom or two, or three, or four. So Coach Matt, just real quick, we've talked a long time, but just real quick, in a minute or two, here's our Coach Cool Down Tip of the Week. I wanted to keep you on just a little bit longer, don't let me down here, Matt. Do you have a quick triathlon training or racing tip you can leave our athletes with today as our Coach Cool Down Tip of the Week?

Matt: Definitely. And I mean, I think we can get caught up in swim, bike, run, and, I'm going to go back to this one that we just talked about, the mental game. At the end of the day, you got to be you, do you, for you. I think that's what this is all about, is it's not a comparison game. You cannot be distracted by the comparison game, you got to be captivated with your purpose. What are you out there to do? I always tell my athletes, race with blinders on. Don't look at the people next to you. It's your hand, like when you're playing a five card draw. You're not looking at your neighbor's cards, you have to play your hand the best way possible, and understanding what your hand looks like. You got the swim, you got T1, you got the bike, you got T2, you got the run. Those are your five cards you get to play. How you play your hand dictates your success. If you show up and play one ace, you're going to walk away poor. Nobody ever wins with one ace. You want to lay the best hand possible, whether it's two tens, three tens, whether it’s a full house. But you've got to play your hand, and don't compare your hand, your skill sets, to the person next to you. Because it is a triathlon, it's not just a swim, it's not just a bike, it's not just a run. And then, again, those transitions get played. They're the wild card sometimes. You don't win it there, but you can lose it there. So again, I'll just say, focus. Do you understand your skill sets and race your race? Know what your limits are and play your hand. Don't try to play your cards like somebody else. They don't have the same hand you have.

Outro: Thanks for joining us. Make sure to subscribe and share the TriDot podcast with your triathlon crew. For more great tri content and community, connect with us on Facebook, YouTube, and Instagram. Ready to optimize your training? Head to tridot.com and start your free trial today! TriDot – the obvious and automatic choice for triathlon training.

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