Changing Gears: Improving Your Feel for Each Zone

TriDot Podcast Episode 273

Changing Gears - Improving Your Feel for Each Zone

Intro: This is the TriDot podcast. TriDot uses your training data and genetic profile, combined with predictive analytics and artificial intelligence to optimize your training, giving you better results in less time with fewer injuries. Our podcast is here to educate, inspire, and entertain. We’ll talk all things triathlon with expert coaches and special guests. Join the conversation and let’s improve together.

Andrew Harley: Welcome to the TriDot Podcast. Really interesting triathlon training topic today. We will be talking about how to develop a feel for the different training intensities, right? It is a developed skill. It's a skill you can work on to get better at training in Zone 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. It is not something that comes automatically to most people. Excited to get into this with our coaches so we all can improve at training at different paces. Our first coach joining us for this conversation is Jeff Raines. Jeff is a USA Triathlon Level 2 and IRONMAN U Certified Coach who has a Master’s of Science and Exercise Physiology and was a D1 collegiate runner. He has over 60 IRONMAN event finishes to his credit, including the World Championships in Nice, and he has coached hundreds of athletes to the IRONMAN finish line. Jeff has been training and coaching with TriDot since 2015, and now works to help other TriDot coaches learn how to coach better with TriDot. Coach Jeff, welcome back to the show.

Jeff Raines: Thanks. It's been a while. Glad to be back on and excited to chat pacing strategies. Let's do it.

Andrew: Let’s do it. Also with us is Coach Ryan Tibball. Ryan has a BS in Biomedical Sciences from Texas A&M University and Respiratory Care from UT Health Center at San Antonio. He serves as the Head Power Cycle Coach at Lifetime Fitness and is a certified CrossFit Coach and a Poise Method Certified Run Coach. Ryan is a multiple time IRONMAN finisher and has been coaching with TriDot since 2015. He is even more involved with the TriDot team now as the TriDot Business Coach and a Coach Connect Advisor responsible for matching coaches with TriDot athletes who want a coach. Coach Ryan, how's it going, my friend?

Ryan Tibball: Man, I'm excited to be here. I mean, getting to the end of the year, it's great to have Coach Raines, as well, here. It's been a hot minute since I've seen the man. So great to see you guys.

Andrew: Well, I'm Andrew the Average Triathlete, Voice of the People and Captain of the Middle of the Pack. As always we'll roll through our warm up question, settle in for our main set conversation, and then wind things down with our cool down. Lots of good stuff. Let's get to it.

Warm up theme: Time to warm up! Let’s get moving.

Andrew: So I rarely do this, and if you're a regular listener of the show, you will know I rarely have a warm up question that is not related to triathlon in some tangential way. But today's question has nothing to do with swim, bike, run, strength, fitness, nutrition, whatever. It is purely just something I'm curious about. I'm super curious to hear what our audience has to say here. This question was recently inspired by a trip to the Fort Worth Zoo. My wife and I love going to the zoo, and now we take our daughter to the zoo, and it just quintuples the fun that we have when we go to the zoo. And I want to know, guys, what is your favorite animal to see when you go and visit a zoo? Not related to triathlon in any way, shape, or form. I can't even pretend like it is. Totally off the rocker today. But I'm curious to hear this from you guys. I'm curious to hear this from our audience when I throw this out to the TriDot Podcast audience. Everybody likes going to the zoo, and everybody, I think, has a different favorite animal to go see. So let's talk about it. Jeff Rains, what do you got here?

Jeff: I think I'm going to answer this kind of in honor of my 6-year-old son. It's always lions, lions, lions. But at the zoo, they're always asleep, right? They're just laying there. So once he sees the lion, and he's all hyped up, he's like, “Oh, okay,” you know, “What next?” So the reptile house, snakes. I mean, that's awesome. They're always out and about, the different colors. There's always like 50 of them in there for him to run around. So I'll say reptile house, snakes. I don't know.

Andrew: Coach Ryan Tibball, what is his answer for you?

Ryan: I tell you, what a wild question. Pun intended.

Andrew: Nice.

Ryan: But honestly, the monkeys, I mean, I like to see when they interact with people on the other side of the glass. And it's quite funny. I'm sure you guys have seen the videos. There's one particular monkey – a lady had a purse, and he was literally pointing at the purse and wanted the lady to open up the purse. She opens it up and he goes, he keeps pointing. She pulls it out. He points at the item that she pulled out. And it was kind of funny. It's like, I like to see those interactions. It's really interesting. And I've seen, to the point of some monkeys scaring the heck out of some people, even though they're on the side of the safety glass. So I think they're – I love the interaction most times. But to your point, Andrew, yes, in the summer, they're seeking the shade too. But in the fall, I think it's a great time to go see them. So there you go.

Andrew: This answer for me, I freaking love red pandas. They're adorable as heck. They're always active. They're always being funny. They're always jumping around their enclosure and being goofy. And I can watch the red pandas, and the red panda exhibit, forever. And my wife will eventually be like, “Hey, we've got to go see some other animals.” So that's this answer for me. I can't wait to see what our TriDot audience has to say. When you go to a zoo, what is your favorite animal to go check out? We've got 3 different answers represented here on the TriDot Podcast with our coaches. And I can't wait to see what you, our audience, has to say.

Main set theme: On to the main set. Going in 3…2…1…

Andrew: Alright, now that we've monkeyed around in our warm-up question, thank you all, by the way. Thank you all, just for giving me a one-podcast diversion to talk about something that wasn't triathlon. Just because I was curious. I was curious to see what our coaches had to say. Now we're back to swim, bike, and run goodness. In today's episode, we're talking about swim, bike, and run training – specifically, learning from Coach Ryan and Coach Jeff, how to get better at training at different intensities. Sometimes this is pretty easy. Sometimes this can be a little challenging. And I can't wait to see what we can learn from our coaches about this. So question number one, guys, out the gate, why is it important for us to have a variety of paces, and a wide range of paces, that we can train at? Coach Jeff?

Jeff: Each training Zone will elicit a different training response, or a different adaptation, or a metabolic response, metabolic functioning. And being strategic in how you place those efforts versus actual paces, and what your fitness levels are at, we're raising our functional thresholds aerobically and anaerobically. And we want to raise those so that we can race that certain percentage of those. And so being specific and intentional day-to-day can help us be more successful on race day. And there's definitely a lot of science, and rules, and guidelines, and principles that go into these Zones. And these Zones are constantly changing as our fitness changes, right? We're largely not the same athlete we were 1 month ago. And so when you first, kind of, start to get a grasp on pinning perceived effort with actual and how it all works, then they all change again in this vicious cycle. So there is a lot. It is hard. It's hard to pinpoint. And so hopefully we can help close that gap a little bit today.

Andrew: Coach Ryan, anything to add there? Anything that you talk to your athletes about when you're discussing the pace Zones, and you're reminding us pesky athletes, “Hey, stay in the right Zones. It's important.” Why is it so important?

Ryan: Yeah. We've all heard this before. Simply put, random training produces random results. We don't have the proper ranges of paces and Zones, you can't train appropriately – bottom line. Jeff went into some specifics there already. I mean, the impact of training appropriately in those different Zones, as metabolically in your thresholds, it’s so important to see that progress. And I know we'll talk more about that later. But at the same time, one of my favorite words – besides communication, the ‘C word’ of communication – is consistency, right? And we say, along with doing things consistently and not randomly, you will start to see those results that we're looking for. And done in the proper timing, frequency, recovery, and intensities will give you, again, the results that you desire – your goals, that you hit those goals. I know we'll talk more about those adaptations that are needed as an athlete. This is exciting to talk about. I love this.

Andrew: I distinctly remember – before I was training with TriDot, and I was just doing the best I could with what I knew – I had some recognition that I shouldn't go out and go for a run at the same pace, same distances every single day – same thing in the pool, same thing on the bike. Without the guidance of TriDot, and without the knowledge of how to do structured training, what my Zone should even be – I didn't know anything about Zone 2 versus Zone 4, don't Zone train in Zone 3, all that kind of stuff. Literally, this is what my training was: when I would swim, I would go down to the pool, and every single swim session – no matter how long I was going to be in the pool – basically, I was going the fastest I could go for however long I was trying to do. So if it was a 100, I was just hammering. If I was doing a 200 to 300 to 400, I would slow it down a little bit. And literally how far each interval was going to be, I would slow down or speed up accordingly. That was it. There was no trying to hit certain paces, trying to even structure those intervals in a certain way, right. When I would bike, if I was on something like Zwift or Fulgaz, and I was training indoors, I would just kind of – really, whether it was indoors or outdoors – it was the same thing. It was just: when this hits Strava, how can I make sure I have the fastest possible average pace to look good on Strava, right? You have times where you're hammering and times where you're easing up a little bit, but it's all with the end goal of having that average miles per hour look good on Strava. That was it. That was all I was going off of in my bike training. And then for the run, I think that's where I was varying it up the most, but I really had three different things I would do. I would go long and slow, or I would go medium and faster, or I would run a 5k and hammer it. And there was no rhyme or reason to why it was just, “Hey, how fast do I feel like going today?” And that was kind of it. Like, I did not have a knowledge and a recognition that, “Oh, I should have different gears. I should have different paces that I'm training at. That's really important for my body to adapt in a number of different ways.” And then I started training with TriDot, and it revolutionized my knowledge of training paces. But when you start doing that – saying all that to say this – when you start doing that, it doesn't come naturally right away. You don't have all of those gears, so to speak, right away. And so talk to me about why do athletes struggle with this? Why does it take time to get better at swimming, biking, and running at different paces, and where, where in the three sports, do you see athletes struggling the most with getting better at this? Coach Ryan?

Ryan: Yeah, I'm going to start off with this statement: it's a fun journey – and emphasize the word fun.

Andrew: Yeah, love that mindset.

Ryan: And enjoy the ride – literally, figuratively – and embrace the suck on those hard days. Embrace the calm and peace on those easy days. They all have a purpose, and we'll continue to talk about that. But typically, especially at the beginning of their journey – of an athlete's journey, even my own personal journey – I was like you, Andrew, you know, same thing. I was like, “Oh, I'm going to go hard today. I'm gonna go really hard today, okay.” But then what happened was, I couldn't work out the next day, and sometimes even the day after. And so I was obviously just randomly doing things, and yet had no plan in place. And you know, really, to answer the other question is, I find athletes do struggle in all three disciplines, in finding those Zones from the get-go. That's okay. As an athlete, as a coach, you have to say, “Hey, it's all right. Embrace this.” But typically, I do find athletes struggle with this because of several reasons: no plan, no guidance, not having a device, not properly training with the right tools to normalize for the environment – temperature, humidity, elevation all have huge, profound effects on training appropriately – and not having the right tools to measure and quantify those training loads and stresses appropriately. So we have that tool in TriDot. It's such a valuable tool. But I do see most athletes struggling with Z2, most often in Zone 2, and therefore have poorly developed aerobic basis of fitness. And then, really to say in all three sports, but it does seem like the run is one of the bigger ones. We oftentimes hear athletes saying, “Hey, I had to walk in this Z2. I thought I was supposed to run or jog.” No, it's where your Zones are at right now, and it's okay. Trust me, we all started there, and we'll progress and move out of that. One could argue the swim is one of the most difficult ones because of the abilities to know exactly where you're at when you're swimming. We don't have that ability. Well, actually there's some tools out there now, like the FORM goggles, for example, that give you that real-time upfront data. Otherwise, honestly, when I started swimming, I didn't know anything until I hit the wall. And then I go, “Oh, that's my time and that's how I'm feeling? Oh my gosh.” But you know, like I said, there are devices, and these inventions can help you identify your Zones while swimming, much like while running and biking, in real time. So having that reliable device, having done – we’ll go into assessments in a little while – but having done those, knowing your Zones definitely will help you. And I will say, Garmin is my favorite device. I'll just say it right now. Definitely does a great job in giving me what I need.

Andrew: Coach Jeff, I'm curious to hear about this from you. Why do athletes struggle with changing up the paces? And specifically, Jeff, do all triathletes struggle with this at some point in their journey? Is it something that newer triathletes will struggle with? And then, as you get more and more into the sport, you get better at it, and you stay better at it? What's your thoughts here? What's your input? What do you see with your athletes?

Jeff: It is a never-ending vicious cycle, but consistency is key. And so the more that you do it, the better you get at it. Because your Zones – first of all, your thresholds need to be established correctly. Truly accurately. So that percentages of your thresholds can be utilized to create your training Zones. Then your Zones are different for swimming, for biking, and running. And then as your fitness changes throughout the season, all of those need to be updated regularly. So that's that vicious never-ending cycle. But it does get easier. You get better at being able to stay consciously in those Zones. But also, there's a perceived effort versus an actual. “Oh, I think I'm in Zone 2. This feels great. Oh no, I'm running too fast. I'm in Zone 3,” and it'll come back to bite you later on. So I think it all kind of comes down to this: each segment of triathlon, or training, or each discipline, has an impact on the one that follows. So how well you pace the swim on a triathlon will dictate how successful you are on the bike and run. But there's no such thing – we've all heard this – there's no such thing as a great swim, and a great bike, with a bad run off. So that would be cataloged, right, as a ‘bad race’. And so there's a lot of reasons for that kind of ‘bad run’, but usually, 9 times out of 10, it's improper pacing on the swim and bike, right. And then as your race gets longer and longer, the targeted percentages of your functional threshold drops. So you will hold a lower percentage of your threshold for longer durations as the races get longer. So there's a delta there that, as the race gets longer, it's kind of harder and harder to stay, or perfect, what that percentage of threshold you're going to hold. I kind of just say this: like, your goal in pacing is knowing how to distribute your effort across a specific period of time in order to maintain speed and optimize your performance, right, do the best that you can. Tibball said, “Random training produces random results.” Some people don't necessarily care whether they go 14:30 or 16 hours in an IRONMAN. They just want to feel good out there. They're not super worried about 100th or versus 110th in their age group, so to speak. But there is a point where you want to be comfortable, and confident, and have a good time out there. You don't want to just be miserable. But then there's also the side of the coin where you have more elite athletes that, you know, want every 30 seconds they can get in that full IRONMAN. It might be the difference in a podium or not, or a Kona slot, or a PR or not. A lot of it depends on how well you want to perfect. I'll end with this: there are so many intrinsic and extrinsic factors that affect your pacing and how you're going to pace. Just because your Zones are set, your mindset going into it, or how well you had nutrition on the bike, it takes the rest. There’s so many internal and external factors that will affect how well you pace and how well you stay on it. That's why day-to-day training, and rehearsals, and keeping these Zones honest, and updated, and accurate, and being intentional every day, you get better and better at closing that gap versus what you feel or think you're at and what the external factors are doing – temperature, heat, and all these things – in the moment. So it's a lot to balance. I know I said a lot there. But really being a little bit intentional – you don't have to always be perfect – but being intentional each and every day is how you close that gap.

Andrew: So I want to talk specifically about your swim training, your bike training, and your run training. And across all three sports, how can you get better at developing a feel for what Zone 2 feels like, what Zone 3 feels like, 4, 5, and 6. So that when you are training, you're nailing your intervals, you're nailing your pacing. But before we talk about each sport individually, we kind of have to touch on this: when you're doing your workout, especially for our TriDot athletes who are training with TriDot's technology, some sessions, your Zones are purely based on your pace or your power. Some sessions, pace and power don't matter at all, it is strictly based off of heart rate. Across the spectrum, whether your workout, whether your training session is power, pace, or heart rate, staying in the right Zone matters greatly. It just changes a little bit how that Zone is being measured. Jeff, talk to us about how we can tell, within the app, if our session is supposed to be based on power, pace, and heart rate, how to recognize that. And then how does this play a role in us feeling like we're training in the correct Zone and actually training in the correct Zone?

Jeff: It's tough because swimming, biking, and running, right – let's just say Zone 2, that aerobic, that base that Tibball was talking about – the effort that you give to maintain a Zone 2 pace in the swim might be a different effort, or feeling, that you give to hold a Zone 2 run pace. It feels a little bit different, right? And so that's the paradox, I guess we could even say, is that not all Zone 2 is created equal, so to speak. And I read a study, there's actually this, earlier this week, it has to do with pacing and how it relates to triathlon, because it's multiple sports stacked. So how do you alternate percentages of, to target a good runoff? There's no, like, “You have to hold 70% of your FTP on a bike for an IRONMAN.” Well, why not 68? Why not 72? Why not 75? So it was really cool, and what they found out is the biggest, the hardest, is the swim to hone in on and perfect your Zones. One, because the range that differentiates the target of each Zone is a smaller window. You might only have 3 seconds per hundred until you're in that next Zone, right. But it’s a smaller range, but its the hardest to hit, right. So the study said that the swim was the hardest to perfect, staying in the correct Zones, perceived effort, intrinsic versus external, and all these things. The next is: the run is the hardest to perfect. And the bike, of the 3 disciplines, is the easiest to hit and stay in the Zones. You have the power of the reel; the reel provides feedback.

Andrew: That feels right to me. That mirrors my experience for sure.

Jeff: And then the swim, I guess the goal in the swim, right, it's – you want to help prevent and stabilize fatigue and prevent further worsening. But there's a body balancing and form aspect. So it's how well can you stay in the Zones, but also maintain good body positioning, body balancing. Once you go too hard, or the feel isn't good with the timing, or your arms are swinging too fast, that's when – throw pace out the window if your form is off. And the swim, it's the hardest to do that, right. Where so much of our pacing and buoyancy is taking away due to gravity. The buoyancy of water takes away that gravity aspect. And so we're only in the water once or twice a week; we're on foot and feeling the resistance of gravity all day, every day, walking, and then ever since we were born and all that. And so in the water, and the swim, and the orientation – it's the hardest.

Andrew: And Coach Ryan, can you just kind of let our listeners know – I think a lot of long-time TriDot users will be aware of this, but just maybe for our newer folks, or folks listening who haven't started their TriDot specific journey yet – in the TriDot app itself, how can they tell that a workout is supposed to be pace, power, or heart rate so that we make sure we're doing our workout by the correct metric?

Ryan: Yeah. What I love, too, is – especially on many Thursdays, when I open up my app and I see, yours might say easy ride, but right next to that easy ride, it has a heart icon next to it, in the shape of a heart, it's red. And that's telling me this is a heart rate ride. And the same thing goes for a run if, for example, you just want to look for those little icons. So you'll either see a clock, a lightning bolt that stands for – the clock stands for pace, and the lightning bolt stands for power. And then a heart. Whichever one of those that you see, which is what dictates what the purpose of that workout is, what you're supposed to be following, what metric you're supposed to follow. And it's very important that our TriDot athletes utilize it and read carefully, look at it carefully, and know exactly right off the bat, “Hey, today's that easy ride. It's all heart rate. It says it right there. Today's all by pace, or power,” as notated in their workouts.

Andrew: Yeah no, thanks for that. And definitely, if you get on TriDot, and you get a workout, and you see a lightning bolt symbol, and hey, today's bike workout is supposed to be by power. And you're like, “Woah, I don't have a power meter.” You can change all of that in your settings to tell TriDot which of those metrics you can train off of. I found, personally, I think it's the hardest to stay in the right pace when you're training by heart rate. We know that heart rate has a delayed response. And so if you’re raining by heart rate, and you've got a Zone 4, 5, 6 interval, you might be running at an accelerated pace for a minute or so before your heart rate actually gets the memo and creeps up to be in the Zone to reflect the work you're doing. A lot of athletes come on the TriDot and really struggle in the heart rate Zone 2 stuff. To keep their heart rate in Zone 2. They want to go faster, they want to go at a certain pace, and they find they have to go slower than they probably want to to keep the heart rate in Zone 2. But it's very important you keep that heart rate in Zone 2 when you're supposed to do a Zone 2 heart rate workout. A little easier to hit the right intensities when training by pace or power. Let's get into the swim specifically. I find as a swimmer, every time I take a few weeks, even, or even a month or two, off of swimming, and then get back into the pool – Jeff, you mentioned this is the hardest one to get right. It's the hardest one to learn – when I take a couple of weeks off, or a month or two off, and get back in the pool, man, it is really hard to get those paces right. I find personally, if I’m supposed to swim in Zone 2, my legs start sinking if I'm swimming at the pace that's supposed to be Zone 2. And so then you start working harder to keep yourself going at a Zone 2 pace. So I found some tricks for that. I know other TriDot-ers have reported that. The other thing I struggle with in the swim: I think it's really, not easy to swim in Zone 3, but I can naturally find a rhythm in Zone 3, and I can accelerate into Zone 4 or 5. But if I have a workout where it's supposed to be Zone 4 or Zone 5, it's really hard for me to dial in what Zone 4 feels like versus Zone 5, because in my head and to my body, they're both just hard. You're swimming hard. You're going hard. But there is a difference between Zone 4 and Zone 5. Cause in Zone 5, you were swimming really freaking hard, and Zone 4, you're swimming hard, but you're holding back a little bit. And to dial in that difference and get a feel for what Zone 4 feels like versus Zone 5, that takes me a little bit of time when I get back into the pool after a little bit of a break. Coach Jeff, talk to us about how can we improve on learning what those different Zones feel like, and developing those different gears from Zone 2 all the way up to Zone 6 in the pool.

Jeff: I think when you take a large amount of time off, or, I guess, even any amount of time off, and you come back to the sport, in my opinion, ‘swim fitness’ – and I'm kind of doing air quotes – ‘swim fitness’ kind of is the easiest, I would say, to come back, right. But it's the hardest to perfect the Zones. And I think it's because the form is off. Unless you're consistent – you're in the pool 2, 3, 4 times a week consistently, the form is staying a little bit more on point, and so you're able to stay in the Zones a little bit better. So I think it's more of a form aspect. And if you take time off, you got to kind of relearn some things. I think that, you know, earlier we talked about, like, exercise duration is the biggest factor in influencing, I guess we'll call it self-selected versus the optimal pacing strategies. That mind-body connection. And so the longer that you're out there, the longer the exercise is, the harder it is to hone in on these things. And so I think coming back to swimming, coming back to the pool, doing shorter sets – don't go out there and just swim 2K just to see where you're at right now, because your half IRONMAN in 4 months, “Am I 50 minutes or 35 minutes?” You know – getting better, more efficient at shorter distances in the pool, it's not necessarily a myth, but you don't have to do a lot of long sets in the pool to be successful. And your form is better, right – the first 12 yards when you push off of the wall of any swim set, your form is the best and greatest because you're the fastest, you're streamlined, you pushed off the wall. You've got the best body balancing and body positioning immediately when you push off of the wall in the first 12 yards. The longer that you go, the more your form deteriorates, and then you lose the mind-body connection. “I feel like I'm doing Zone 5,” like you said. But you hit the wall and you finish that 400, let's say, “Oh man, that was my Zone 2 pace.” Well, maybe you went off at a Zone 4 effort, and you finished at a Zone 1 or 2, and then the overall it was– so we want to start with shorter distances, keeping the neuromuscular, learning the motion, pushing off of the wall, more shorter sets, better body balancing and body positioning. So as you're coming back from periods of time swimming – or maybe you do an assessment, and you've significantly changed, updated, you got new Zones. So you got to learn what it feels like in those new Zones. So starting off that first week or two back, or the first week or two coming back after a new assessment and new Zones, be a little bit more intentional on the shorter sets, honing in on your form, being able to maintain that rather than just doing a bunch of 400s and 300s and 200s. So shorter sets for sure.

Andrew: Coach Ryan, what do you tell your athletes, when it comes to that swim training, about how to develop those different gears and make sure you're hitting them in your swim training?

Ryan: First off, I say skipping your swim sessions is not going to help you develop the skill of knowing your pacing while swimming, bottom line. But to reinforce exactly what you said, Raines – Coach Raines and Andrew – is establishing – and really, if you've been out of the pool for a while – establishing that body position, balance and body position, is just key. Oftentimes I will, including myself, I'll tell my athletes, “Listen, you need to start off, your first few sessions, we need to heavily drill back into – get back in the water and drill, and do shorter sessions, and do it until, hey, don't let your form fall apart.” I'm going to take this opportunity – the TriDot Pool School, this is what we emphasize day one, is balance and body position. That right there will give you enormous confidence, even getting back into the water if you haven't been in it. So now you have the tools and the resources to be able to, again, get back in the water, even with time off. So again, regularly swimming will certainly improve your abilities in the water, and consistently, and being able to dial in those paces. To your point, Andrew, I love this. What I tell athletes is, “Your Zone 2 is–” I go back to Dory and Finding Nemo and when she's singing Just Keep Swimming – and I will not sing for you guys today, but I'm just saying, I tell athletes, “Sing that, and it'll calm you, and relax you, and keep you in that comfortable pacing of Zone 2.” That's a little trick I use while racing.

Andrew: Yeah, love it!

Ryan: So, one of my favorites, but there you go.

Jeff: I'll add one thing, just as you're getting back in the pool, we’re saying, “Find the body balancing, find the body position,” but how? And I would just want to reiterate: by doing shorter sets. So you're on the wall more. So you're able to kind of, “What did that just feel like? That 50, what was the actual pace? It felt like Zone 4, but the pace was actually Zone 3. Okay. What do I need to do different on the next one?” But I'll also add that getting a little bit faster, or more efficient, at lower stroke rates is key. Sometimes the more you slow down, you intrinsically, like, just need to calm down. Like Tibball said, just keep swimming, Dory, relax, just keep going. So sometimes that Zone 2 intrinsic or internal effort is actually a Zone 4 pace swimming. The more you calm down, the more better, let’s say, your form is. So you want to get faster at lower stroke rates first. So that's kind of ‘the how’. It's a little bit different for bike and run, right. If you give a Zone 2, really ‘lah-dee-dah’ effort, you're probably not pushing Zone 5 watts on the bike. But in swimming, there is that. So that's kind of ‘the how’.

Andrew: Great point, Jeff. I love the reiteration of focus on your form. Don't stress about doing the intervals spot on until you develop those different gears. And again, it can take a couple of swim sessions, and you really focus on your form for a couple of swim sessions, and then, boom, all of a sudden, 3 weeks later, you're nailing your workouts, full length, full duration, every single interval, because you've really worked on developing those gears. Moving on to the bike. And this is the one that, Jeff, you said is the easiest. That's certainly been my experience. It's still not automatic, you still have to focus on making sure you're doing the right training right here, not just going out and hammering. But I think part of it for me is mental, just letting go of, “What is my average miles per hour look like on Strava later,” and just doing, interval by interval, what I'm supposed to. And I think the other thing at play here, and talking about changing gears, really, what we're getting at today is changing gears, right. On a bike, you actually have gears that you can change to help you stay in the right intensity appropriately. And running and swimming, you have to do that yourself, so to speak. You have to ‘change the gears’, so to speak, on your own. So on the bike – Coach Ryan, we'll go to you first – how can we improve on developing a feel for training in Zone 2, 3, 4, 5, 6?

Ryan: Part of this does come down to your equipment, right, having the equipment to measure appropriately. That's just the bottom line. Having that bike computer or watch, certainly, again, you'll know your pacing, you'll know your Zones, you'll know your power output if you luckily have the power pedals, or any sort of power meters, on your bike. But those things can certainly help enhance your ability to hone in on your Zones more quickly, having those tools. So what a perfect time, Christmas time, ask for that, put that on your Santa list.

Andrew: There you go.

Ryan: For sure. But if you ride outside, and again, I come back to whether you have the equipment, the power meters, or pacing, and understanding your efforts with your pacing, is part of that. Dialing in that RPE with, again, your pacing. But, again, terrain changes. There's a lot of factors that affect you riding outside. The terrain, the environment. Living in North Texas here, I don't know a day it's not windy, to be honest with you. Those feel like hills to me, mountains some days, it's just so crazy. But again, correlating – that's when you say pace. Boy, I tell you what, that's not going to help me when I'm going against a 20-mile-per-hour wind. It's just not going to help. And not to complicate the situation, but understanding your RPE in those events of riding outside. Now, to simply make this a lot simpler is, hey, if you've got a smart trainer, oh my gosh, that has been, I think, honestly, has been my number one most valuable piece of equipment I've ever owned. Just because it's helped me really hone in on where Zone 2 is, where Zone 3 is, 4, 5, and 6.

Andrew: What it feels like to hit it, what it feels like to hold it, right?

Ryan: Yes, absolutely. And then if you could spend the time, especially right now, we're in December, it's colder outside. I'm not riding out there if it's 15 below; I'm just not a fan of that. I will sit in my office with a heater on me, just to kind of give me a little – we can go into adaptation things later – but the point is, I can dial in those feelings, and then when I get outside, it's almost internal, innate. You're just like, “Okay, I know this feeling,” and you can really dial in that RPE because, man, there's so many situations we could talk about. I've had computers go out on me in a race and, well, I'm relying on RPE at that point. And successfully, thankfully it worked, but I digress. But again, when you're training inside, dialing it in for the outside, again, you'll be able to consistently, and keeping in the same efforts in a particular Zone, whatever that race is asking of you or that training day is asking of you. That's the bottom line there.

Andrew: Definitely the easiest one. But this is where some tech investments, a little monetary investment, really goes a long way. If you have the budget to make those monetary investments, this should be a pretty easy spot to hit your intensities in training correctly. Coach Jeff, anything to add on, when you're having conversations with your athletes, on how to get better at staying in the right training intensities? What do you say to them?

Jeff: The biggest thing is, right, we're trying to stabilize fatigue. We want to be able to distribute our speed effectively across a workout or a race. And what we've got to do is, we've got to eliminate external things that are going to hinder that. And the good thing about the bike – and we mentioned earlier – the bike is actually the easiest to hone in on and perfect your Zones. Because we can have a perfect bike fit, if there is such thing – it’s hard, there’s a lot of things – but a good bike fit. We're also clipped in. Our feet can't move. So there's not a lateral aspect. We're getting rid of dimensions, right, of our 3D, or even 4D, aspect of cycling. And so if we're in a fixed position, our cleats are good. Our arms are in aero. We have a good, comfortable fit. So now the output of those real-time watts are a true measure of our fitness. It's not a knee going out weird, or a bad bike fit, or we're sitting up, or the wrong seat, or our seat's too tired, because that could sway 30 watts. Is it really a fitness? Are we really bad at holding bike watts? Because the mind-body connection isn't there? We're trying. We're being intentional. Is it just because the bike fit is off, right? So we want to have a good bike fit. And now that we're clipped in, we're in a good, healthy, safe body positioning, right? Then when we're looking at the watts, we know exactly. And then TriDot adjusts for age, gender, environment, and all of these things. So now we know that the target Zones are super accurate. Our body positioning is really good, right? And so now – through what Tibball said, and every day, and being consistent, and all of those things – now we actually have a good connection of, “What does Zone 4 feel like?” There is one more aspect to it – is the cadence that you hold within it, right? Just because you're pushing middle of Zone 4 watts–

Andrew: Yeah, good point.

Jeff: –right? If you're doing it at a super low, and a very high motor unit recruitment, and a huge, just explosive, slow-moving leg, right? You're probably not going to be able to hold Zone 4 for very long. Our Zone 4 is where our functional threshold on the bike, right, it falls. FTP on the bike could, or should, be a watt number that you could hold for about an hour, right? So if you type in middle-of-Zone-4 watts, let's just say, but you got a really low cadence, you may not make it 10 minutes, but you should, or could, be able to hold that for an hour if you had to, right? And so finding the optimal cadence to where you're using the energy system and the energy source effectively. That's usually an 80- to 90-ish, it’s a little bit arguable. And then it depends the gear that you're holding, right? Are you holding Zone 4 watts up a nasty hill, or a flat, or a downhill? So there are a lot of technical aspects of cadence and gear ratios. So you want to, one, make sure your bike fit is good, right? And then you want to make sure that your gearing ratios are talking well with the next race you have coming up, right? If you're always training on a flat, but your race is on hills, then that mind-body connection is going to be off when you're in the moment. And so there's a lot – I know that's a whole other podcast – but it's the bike fit, and it's the how of the cadence versus the gearing ratios. It's not just seeing, “Oh, I need to hold 200 watts – I'm holding 200 watts. I'm good to go,” right? So there's a little bit more of an intentional aspect, or multiple layers, but they are easier to hone in on, believe it or not, than swimming and running, in my opinion.

Andrew: Yeah, and Jeff, we actually – you brought up a new podcast topic. I have already emailed our good friend TJ Tollakson from Diamond Bikes, and he is coming on the show very soon to do an episode on gear ratios and cassettes, and how they play with your race course, and your training environment, and your cadence, and stuff like that. So we actually have that one in the works. I can't wait to get to it. On to the run. Maybe not as hard as a swim, but a little more challenging than the bike to get a feel for Zone 2, 3, 4, 5 on the run. I personally – I'll just lead with this – I love track workouts, and part of why I like going to the track for my workouts is that it's just the best, most predictable environment to develop this feel for each Zone, right? Because every lap is the same, in theory, the elevation change is zero. You're just clocking laps on a flat, predictable surface, and you're not focusing on the sidewalk cracks, and the cars, and the traffic. You literally are just feeling a pace in a controlled environment with your body, and I can hold a Zone 2, 3, 4, 5 pace lap, after lap, after lap on a track. It's a little harder when you're on a running path where the environment is changing. So my personal recommendation here, that I will lead with, is: if you struggle with changing gears, holding different paces out on the run, go to the track, intentionally, for all of your runs for a couple weeks, and really start dialing in that feel, and then maybe branch back out to some different environments. But that's my number one tip here. I really like the track. It can be a little dull, but I like it for this reason. I can nail my paces there really, really well. Coach Jeff, what do you want to say about learning how to change those Zones up, and learn what your Zone should feel like in your run training?

Jeff: Running is the hardest on the body. It's the biggest toll. It's largely the biggest injury potential discipline. People learn to not like it. And so, I love what you said, trying to control the environment, right? Find that soft surface. You're pacing every quarter mile, flat terrain, things like that. Using ergometers, right? They exist in swimming, biking, and running – Tibball said the smart trainer indoors – so you could eliminate certain aspects. For example, you could get on a treadmill and put it at a low Zone 2 pace. So if you don't fall off the treadmill, you don't hang onto the wall or the rail, there's no way you're not going to hold a Zone 2 pace. Just don't fall off the dang thing. So that eliminates the pace. The pace is set. So now what you can do is start looking at heart rate, right? Is it high? Is it low? And then what you can do is play around with your cadence inside, right? So the Zone 2 pace is perfect, right? And heart rate, “Alright, it's staying below Zone 3. I'm good.” But now what? So now you can say, “Well, what does a 180 cadence feel like running? Let's go down to a 160.” Again, as long as you don't fall off, you're hitting everything perfect. So we always talk about being intentional during workouts. Yeah, you can just get on a smart trainer, pull up Zwift, there's my TriDot workout, hit go. If I don't stop pedaling for an hour, I get a 100 TrainX score. I nail my workout. I hit all the Zones perfectly. But how can you be even more intentional, right? So on that treadmill, let's just say, the pace is good, you know your heart rate's staying in Zone 2, you're good. So what else can we do? “I've got an hour run here, what am I going to do now?” right? So start playing around with cadence versus speed, and all of the stride link, vertical oscillations. So you can pick a couple other variables and hone in on that and just kind of gather some data, right? At the end of the workout, write down how you felt, or what did I do, things like that. Now, you can do all that on a track, but using a treadmill, maybe one out of 3, one out of 4 workouts. A lot of us, it's winter now. We're indoors. We're using treadmills now more anyways. A lot of people really don't like running on the treadmill, but this is the perfect time, kind of this preseason, to start doing these extra things that we don't super focus on, maybe, in mid-season or stuff like that. So that will really help, is looking at the stride link versus cadence, inside of the pace versus heart rate, in each Zone.

Andrew: And people, TriDot athletes who follow me on Strava, will know that Andrew has not been doing a ton of training in 2024. I'm trying to get the wheels spinning again, just to get healthy, and get fit, and maybe get into some local sprints and olympics in 2025, and just get the legs going again. And right now I'm doing a lot of Zone 2 running, and I get out there – and the run is my strongest of the 3 disciplines  – and even with it being my strongest, just so much time off my feet this calendar year, I don't have a feel for my different Zones. Coach Ryan, talk about that with the running, how long should it take, and how can we kind of get a feel for what those paces should feel like, and get our legs used to running at those different paces again?

Ryan: The golden question. And the golden answer is: it depends. We've heard that before, but really, it does. But seriously, it depends on several factors, and it begins with consistency. Even I, after my last race, I kind of dropped off that consistency, and noticed, oh boy, do my Zones just change on me. And unfortunately, I had to get back to that consistency, and it took a little bit of time. The biggest thing I had to tell myself was, “Hey, be patient here. Be very, very patient here, and you will get back. It's not that far away.”

Andrew: Be patient and be honest. Like, you have to be honest with where your body is right now, and that is humbling.

Ryan: Yes, 100%. Oh my gosh. And having that – again, going back to the consistency – that is the number one thing that's going to lead to your success. Lack of consistency does certainly lead to those frustrations that you've mentioned, I've experienced, I'm sure Coach Raines has experienced, too. We see that, and, specifically, lack of understanding your Zones and ultimately disappointment in your personal results. None of us want that. But at the same time, I go back even to the very beginning of the podcast saying, this is a journey. It's always a journey. And I love what Raines said. Your Zones are constantly going to change. You're going to update those Zones, and you're spinning back into Zones 2, 3, and 4, 5, and 6. They're new to you. But again, with the consistency and getting back, and that challenge of, again, the challenge of trying to learn your Zones, I find it, I treat it like a game, I really do. But to answer how quickly it comes back, it truly does depend on the athlete and those factors I’ve already mentioned – we've all mentioned. It's just about, just get after it guys. Just get after it, stay on it, be patient, be honest, like you said, Andrew. I think that's probably your biggest keys.

Jeff: And I think for running, another trick for ‘the how’ – how to hone in on what the Zones are – is to start off in the low end or the low range. Or, “Hey, I've got 4 x 5 minutes,” is a safe, honest, just awesome, good workout. 4 x 5 minutes is Zone 4. So if you have 5 minutes to spend in Zone 4, start off at the absolute lowest end of that range for the first couple of minutes of that, right.

Andrew: Yeah, good point.

Jeff: Get a feel for it. What's my cadence, is my body positioning good. And then as you progress through the workout, or multiple sets, then you can kind of start to speed up. If you just go out in the middle, or the upper, and you just try to hold it and maintain, the heart rate goes crazy, and it's hard to hone in on that. So start, like, be patient, but also start at the low end of those new ranges for the first couple of workouts, or even first couple of weeks. And then as you feel that mind-body connection, then you can start pushing the pace a little bit more.

Andrew: Jeff, I love that you said that. And it reminds me of, in my run training specifically, so TriDot has the interval workout – which, your interval workout, regardless of how many intervals you have, it's usually a certain amount of time at Zone 5, and you go back to Zone 1, 2. Zone 5s – and so it's really easy to recover, and then hitting it really hard for Zone 5. And so for me, it's usually 4 sets of 4 minutes at Zone 5. And I, for the longest time, Jeff, when I would have intervals workout come up, I would have a hard time on the third and fourth interval staying in Zone 5. I would fade and kind of clock a lot of time in Zone 4. And it's because, in my Zone 2, I was staying at the high end of my Zone 2 for the recovery intervals. And something was said on a podcast that jogged me to try, “Hey, let me take it as easy as humanly possible on those recovery intervals.” And then, boom, all of a sudden I could stay in Zone 5 all the way through the workout like I was supposed to. And you don't realize, early in your workouts, how letting the easy stuff be easy gives your body the extra juice deeper into the workout to let the harder stuff stay in the right interval. And when you're fatigued, it's harder to nail the correct Zone. And the longer you can stay fresher deeper into your workout – or deeper into your mesocycle, microcycle, whatever – let the easy stuff be easy, so the hard stuff can be hard. I have two questions I want to hit, and we're going to wrap up the main set and kick it over to Vanessa for our Coach Cool Down Tip of the week. And so I'll ask one of these to Ryan and one of these to Jeff. Let's go to Coach Jeff with this one. I want to know, Jeff, what will you tell an athlete if they just have a problem Zone? Like, maybe they've been in a sport for a while, maybe they’ve been doing structured training with TriDot for a while, and they've gotten a really good feel for their Zones for the most part. But maybe there's just one thing that's vexing them. Maybe it's their Zone 2 on the run, they just can't stay in Zone 2. Maybe it’s on the swim, they're not very good at holding Zone 4. Maybe they go too hard and clock too much time in Zone 5 or in Zone 3. Maybe on the bike they really struggled to pick up the pace and giddy up those muscles for Zone 6 stuff, I don’t know. Across the board, they find, “I do a really good job, but I've got one thing, one Zone, in one of the sports that just continues to be my Achilles’ heel.” Regardless of what that Achilles’ heel is, how would you tell an athlete to address a problem Zone?

Jeff: Awesome question. And this is the kind of end of the season; I'm having a lot of conversations with my athletes – What went really well this year? What are we going to do different next year and season planning? And this is the time because a lot of athletes are now in precious developmental, right. This is the Power-Stamina Paradox – episode 10 throwback, one of our most listened to ones. 9 times out of 10, the answer to the question you just asked is due to actually season planning. And it's not spending enough precious months – or months in this precious developmental phase, right? And the fast before far, the strong before long, we need to spend absolutely as many months as we can each year in the developmental phase. Raising a long tent pole, which is our functional threshold, so that later on – way later in the season, closer to long course race day – then, the goal is to switch over, hold higher percentages of our set thresholds for longer duration. So the goal on stamina, again, is: to maintain that threshold we have built in that long time spent in precious developmental. I recommend all my athletes spend an absolute minimum of 6 to 8 months in developmental before they hit stamina. If they want a super peaked, perfect A-race feel good, perfect Zones feel good, and all of that. And we are now in winter, but if you think about it, if you have a full IRONMAN – right now, it's December – if you have a full IRONMAN way out next October, you're going to start stamina largely June-ish, maybe July. If you started right now, today, in December, in developmental, you would have only 5-and-a-half to 6 months. That is it, right now, today, in December, 2024. “But my race is late 2025, October!” right? And you need a minimum of 6 months, absolutely. That's my rule for my athletes. We have to start right now, today, doing all the things we talked about on this podcast – intentional, consistent, all those things – now. And what I see is a lot of athletes spend way too many months in stamina all year long, or they have too many A-races. Now, again, if you don't have super amazing peak goals and all these things, it's okay – you don't have to super peak or whatever – but if you don't want a lot of meat left on the bone for potential, or you don't want to struggle – like you said, “There's just one Zone I can't hit on,” – 9 times out of 10, it's because they were stuck in stamina all year, and their threshold’s kind of up in the air, it's lower than what it could or should be, things like that.

Andrew: Yeah, when you have a race on the calendar, and TriDot is getting you ready for that race, it's building out your stamina for that race. There is changing of Zones in your sessions. There is some short and punchy Zone 4, 5, 6 stuff, but largely, TriDot is having to really gear up your stamina for that upcoming race. And if you don't have a race, and a big long A-race on the calendar coming up, it can keep you in developmental. And if you've been in the developmental phase of TriDot before, you know it gets punchy, and it really spreads out the Zones, and you've got a lot of work in each Zone. And to your point, Jeff, you've got more time to really focus on it across all three sports. So great point there. Coach Ryan, shut us down in the main set with this. I want to know – we've talked about how to improve our training paces and dial in that training across the swim, bike, and run. We've talked about how and why we struggle with this. We've talked about how important it is for our body to train at different paces – How does all of this help us on race day, right? How does getting the training done right and having a feel in our bodies for what these different paces feel like, how does that help us when we're out on the race course?

Ryan: I think this statement right here will resonate with many, including myself, is: I don't love every single meter of the swim. I don't love every single minute of the bike and the run. But it is part of the process, and trusting the process. Ultimately, I want to – and if an athlete wants to grow, get better, accomplish their goals – just realize it all contributes to the outcome and the results – so on race day. Know your purpose, know your ‘why’. In coming into – we're finished up the season – even during the season, I talked to my athletes about their ‘why’. I've had some, oh my gosh, these conversations almost make me tear up now because they've been crying, I started crying, it’s like, wow. And understanding your own personal ‘why’, guys, is so, so imperative – I know this goes beyond what we were just discussing – and adding that to your regimen. Then again, it comes out on race day. So dialing yourself during training is part of the plan. That plan is a direct correlation to your plan on race day. Familiarity is friendly, not knowing is scary. So get yourself dialed in on your training sessions. Embrace the development phase, understanding your body and understanding your pacing, your power, your heart rate, your perceived efforts on training. If you do it in training, you're going to do it on race day. If you make yourself uncomfortable in training, you're going to do it on race day. If you don't do it, you won't do it. Then on race day, you're going to see those results.

Cool down theme: Great set everyone! Let’s cool down.

Vanessa Ronksley: Welcome to the cool down, friends. It's Coach Cool Down Tip time. I'm Vanessa, your average triathlete with elite level enthusiasm. Our TriDot coach with me today is Dennis Hetland. Dennis has been involved in the triathlon community for over 20 years as an athlete and became a certified TriDot Coach a few years ago. Dennis is the poster boy for something that I have always believed with all of my heart, and that is: anyone can do the sport of triathlon. With a background in scholastics and music, Dennis claimed that he did not have an athletic bone in his body. Well, he sits here today, having completed sprint triathlons all the way to full distance Tris, and he is also a proud recipient of a World Marathon Majors Six-Star Finisher medal. Dennis enjoys working with time-crunched athletes who are looking for work, life, and family balance. His goal is to help them cross the finish line with a smile on their face and feeling the support of their families and the TriDot community. Dennis enjoys living in Arizona with his wife, Patty, and visiting his children and grandchildren in Colorado and North Dakota. Welcome to the show, Dennis.

Dennis Hetland: Hey, thanks, Vanessa. It's a great day in Arizona, sun shining and wanting to get out there and get some work into place. But first, let's share a tip.

Vanessa: Well, I have to tell you, I'm sitting here, the sun is shining, I'm also wrapped in a heated blanket because it's still a little chilly here. Well, I am really excited to hear what tip you have for us today, Dennis. So let's get to it.

Dennis: Okay. Well, I am going to dig a little bit into that dental background with this particular tip. As we are all aware, triathlon can be an expensive sport, and this tip, I believe, has the potential to save you a little bit of that hard-earned cash. But before I give the simple tip, I do need to take a slight detour into a little bit of the science to create a better understanding. Many of us have experienced what I term ‘fuzzy teeth’, particularly during a longer training session. You run your tongue across your teeth and they don't feel clean. This feeling can really be the start of dental disease. Now, the short version would be the fact that, for disease to occur, we have bacteria in our mouth – which we can remove some, but we can't remove all. But the bacteria use sugar that we ingest to create acid and to create a sticky substance that holds the bacteria against the teeth. Now, it's the acid that's produced that makes the holes in your teeth. So many of the nutritional products, that we use, use sugar in its simplest form, which then is easier for the bacteria to use. Also, many of the products will have a citrus or an acid background to them to begin with. So we're adding to the acid that's bathing your teeth. Then we add the use of maybe some stickier gels or even those chews that stick on your teeth no matter what. So we are, in essence, creating the perfect conditions for those nasty holes in your teeth. Now, we need nutrition, so what's the answer? The good news is that many people are not as susceptible to the process of decay or cavities as others. So the simple act of swishing water in your mouth will help to dilute the acid and disrupt the bacteria from sticking to your teeth. So if you have a bottle of water after you take your nutrition, just swish it around – spit it out, swallow it, whatever – but it's going to help to dilute the acid and break up the bacteria from sticking to your teeth. Of course, when you're done, when you're home, brushing and flossing will be the best way to get rid of the bacteria – with the caveat of: I'd still like you to rinse first, particularly if you've had some food within the last 30 minutes, because it takes about 30 minutes for the bacteria to kind of get through that acid phase that they're producing. And if you actually brush your teeth right away without rinsing, then you're, in essence, brushing the acid into the teeth. So if we can get into the habit of rinsing our mouth first to help dilute the acid and then brush your teeth, then we can help save you some money.

Vanessa: Thank you so much for sharing all of that information with us today. I can assure you that I'll be swishing my mouth out more frequently, on a daily basis, especially after ingesting some–

Dennis: That’s the goal!

Vanessa: Yeah – especially after ingesting all the sugary drinks that we have and also the gels that, like you said, they get stuck in your teeth. That can be a little bit annoying.

Dennis: It's a little bit of that difference between the simple sugar and the complex sugars, too. Those simple sugars are much easier for the bacteria to digest, so they produce the acid faster and produce more of it.

Outro: Thanks for joining us. Make sure to subscribe and share the TriDot podcast with your triathlon crew. For more great tri content and community, connect with us on Facebook, YouTube, and Instagram. Ready to optimize your training? Head to tridot.com and start your free trial today! TriDot – the obvious and automatic choice for triathlon training.

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