Swim Straight! Your Guide to Open-Water Success

Intro: This is the TriDot Podcast. TriDot uses your training data and genetic profile combined with predictive analytics and artificial intelligence to optimize your training, giving you better results in less time with fewer injuries. Our podcast is here to educate, inspire, and entertain. We'll talk all things triathlon with expert coaches and special guests. Join the conversation and let's improve together.

Andrew Harley: Welcome to the TriDot Podcast. A challenge for triathletes of all levels is swimming the race course as efficiently as possible as the first leg of our race. Valuable time can be saved by not swimming any further than you have to, rounding the buoys efficiently, and handling waves and crowds with confidence. I've got two fantastic voices here today to teach us how to improve in our open water swimming skills. Our first guest joining us for this chat is Jan Sibberson, the founder and CEO of Sailfish Wetsuits. Jan's swim pedigree goes back to an award-filled 10-year stint on the German national swim team. As a professional triathlete, he was first out of the water in Kona four times and set a world record Ironman swim split with a 42-17 at Ironman Germany in Hamburg. He's also the course record holder for the swim course in Kona. He launched Sailfish in 2007 to create premium triathlon and open water swim products for age grouper and elite athletes alike. Jan, welcome back to the show. It's great to see you.

Jan Sibberson: Thanks, Andrew. Thanks for having me again and very much looking forward to chatting about this topic.

Andrew: Yeah, very excited to be learning from you, literally a course record holder when it comes to open water swimming. So the perfect guy to be talking to us about swimming the course efficiently and also here with us to give some knowledge here. She doesn't have any open water swim records that I know of, but she's got a lot of experience out on the race course in open water. It's Coach Jenn Reinhart. Jenn is a multi-sport legend in the Austin, Texas area and has been coaching athletes for over 40 years. She is often a top-ranked Ironman athlete for her age group and is an eight-time Kona finisher. She has been coaching with TriDot since 2017 and currently coaches triathletes and swimmers at Austin Aquatics. Jenn, you were just on this show talking about your experience racing Challenge Roth. So thanks so much for joining us again with such a quick turnaround.

Jenn Reinhart: Thanks for having me again. I'm a little more awake this time. No more jet lag.

Andrew: Yeah, for people who didn't hear our Challenge Roth episode, Jenn basically landed in Austin, Texas, went home, went to sleep, and woke up and had to do a podcast with me to talk about her time in Germany. So thanks for that, Jenn. I'm Andrew, the average triathlete, voice of the people and captain of the middle of the pack. As always, we'll roll through our warm-up question. Settle in for our swim-focused main set conversation and then wind things down with our coach cool-down tip of the week. Lots of good stuff. Let’s get to it.

Warm up theme: Time to warm up! Let’s get moving.

Andrew: Open water swimming is always an adventure, with every body of water having a different look and feel, and every course having its own buoy pattern and characteristics. But even within that, some courses are more unique than others. So what I want to know for our warm-up question today, what is the most unique feature you have ever encountered on a triathlon open water swim course? And it can be something having to do with the tides and the waves and the currents. It can be a physical feature that was out there that was unique or different. It can just be something that you saw while you were out there. Curious to hear what unique open water swim stories come from this one. Coach Jenn.

Jenn: Back in the day when there were just tons of more races around here in Austin, we used to swim in these man-made ski lakes. A really beautiful body of water.

Andrew: Probably small, probably hot.

Jenn: One year, the water was low. And so we swam out maybe 200 yards, had to climb out, run across a little island where there were goats, and then hop back in and swim and get out. So getting to run with the goats across and the little island getting back in. And a bonus was when you got out, because the water was so murky, all of us women had beards like Jan, because there was so much soot in the water. We all had little fine hairs on our face, we'd come out with a full beard.

Andrew: Gross stuff, gross stuff here that we’re talking about with open water swimming. Jan, bring us back here. What is a unique feature of an open water swim course that you've encountered in your time racing?

Jan: Well, now that I had a bit more time to think about it than Jenn, I would say there's one race that pops into my mind. 70.3 St. Croix. Back then, half Ironman St. Croix. Still up to today, the most favorite race that I've ever done in my life. I love this place, seriously. And the unique thing about that race was you had to actually swim a couple hundred meters to the swim start. So the swim start would be on an island.

Andrew: Like farther than Kona? Like swim farther than Kona to get to the swim start? Or kind of comparable to Kona?

Jan: Probably kind of compare—No, no, no, no, it's definitely more than in Kona. Like you'd have to swim further out, further over. And the organizers would always say each year, you know, and this is a swim course, you know, it's a 2.1K, da, da, da. And it's like three, four hundred meters to the start. And if you can't make that warm up, you really shouldn't be in that race. So I think that was unique. The other one that pops into my mind was actually more of an incident, but I think it's worthwhile speaking about it for everybody out there. Kona, I once got stuck in a rope from a buoy at the turnaround boat. So there was a loose rope hanging in the water and I didn't see it and I was leading the race and suddenly I had the rope around my arm and I was standing and because it, yeah, and I had to first untangle the rope and then it could continue. So be aware if you swim very, very close to the buoy that there's also a chance that you might get stuck in something at the buoy. So not the shortest way might not always be the fastest.

Andrew: Very interesting. And that's kind of dipping your toe into our topic of the day a little bit early here as we will talk about rounding buoys in our discussion. But wow, yeah. I mean, especially at a world championship race where your goal was to always come out of the water first. I imagine that spiked the heart rate a little bit, added a little frustration to the day. But my answer here has nothing to do with goats or getting tangled in buoys. The easy answer for anybody who's done Escape from Alcatraz is Escape from Alcatraz because what other swim do you hop off a ferry in the middle of San Francisco Bay and have to swim back to shore through shark infested waters? It's not a thing you do at any other race in the world. It's part of what makes that race so iconic. So that's the easy answer here for me. The other one I'll just give a shout out to so I don't take the easy answer way out. I raced Tri-Key West. It was a sprint and Olympic distance race in Key West, Florida in December. I flew to Florida and did that race with my dad and loads of fun. That course had a moment on the swim course where you actually had to swim under a concrete pier. And it wasn't like one of those tall concrete piers where the concrete pillars are really spaced out. Like you kind of had to shoot a pretty narrow gap. It was almost like this little concrete tunnel you had to swim through. And on a day when the water is really still it probably wasn't that big of a deal. But the day I did the race, it was extremely choppy. And so by the time you're coming through this, you're almost back to shore. It's on the way back to shore. And so it was kind of difficult to time it right, to shoot the gap between all these concrete pillars holding this pier up, and not brush shoulders with concrete on the way through. And I definitely had to take a moment and time it right and swim through. So that was kind of a unique thing. I remember seeing it on the course map, we're going under a pier and most years, probably not a big deal. I don't think anybody got hurt. I don't think it was a dangerous situation by any means. But definitely a unique thing, kind of getting a little claustrophobic and a concrete tunnel with some waves battering you a little bit. That's my answer here. We're going to throw this question out to you, our audience. Let us know what is a unique feature of a swim course that you have raced on. Can't wait to see what you have to say.

Main set theme: On to the main set. Going in 3…2…1…

Andrew: Somewhere deep in the heart of our Strava accounts, most of us have an open water swim file where the course was pretty straight, but our swim map shows a crisscrossity, zigzaggity mess. Swimming the course buoy to buoy as straight as possible saves you time on race day unless you get caught by a rope. Thankfully this is a skill we can work on and Jan and Coach Jenn are here to help us improve in this area. I want to start guys with literally just the focal point, the crux of this. I mean, swimming the course efficiently is all about how straight can you swim? How little can you veer to the left and the right as you're just head down in the water doing your thing? A lot of athletes might already know they tend to drift one direction or the other. A lot of athletes might just know they look at the course maps and their Strava file and see they went all over the place. Talk to us, Jan and Jenn, about how we can swim straighter, how we can eliminate that drift to the left and right, and how we can just look at a buoy, put our head down, and get there as straight as possible. Jan Sibberson, world record holder in the open water swim category. What's your insight here?

Jan: Look, before we get into the details and the insights, I just really want to stress how important this topic is. Because it really gives you, if you get it right, it gives you a much better swim time without doing one minute of more training, of training more, of doing anything else more. I always say the two, in groups or when I don't really do swim coaching anymore, but I always say, if you can figure out how to swim straight, that's going to shave at least, depending on who you talk to, but usually it shaves between a minute and then three minutes on an Ironman course or even more, because people, they have it on their Strava as you say, and they look at it and they're like, oh, I swam 4k, I swam 4.1k. And there's all these crazy numbers and it adds up. Just to give you a bit of perspective, when I broke the record in Kona in 2018, I was 15 seconds under the previous record. And 15 seconds is the equivalent of, let's say, roughly 25 meters. So if you only swim wrong by 25 meters, it's gone. And yeah. I think I didn't wear a watch on that race, but I think I swam really, really straight. And it's one of the absolute keys and prerequisites for a good swim. Now, how do you do it? As with a lot of things, you need to train it. And first you need to figure out, what direction do you tend to veer off? And I think it's first an analysis of, do you go more to the left or do you go more to the right? And most often it has to do with a swimming technique, what happens with your stroke underwater and even more so oftentimes the breathing pattern. If you breathe to one side and one side only, there is usually a bigger tendency that you're swimming in a different direction. Let's put it that way and not fully straight. How can you train it from my perspective? I think, if you are in a pool, and there's no one around, which unfortunately doesn't happen so often. And there's also no lane lines. You can push off, close your eyes, swim for 10 or 20 strokes and see what direction it goes and have someone on the outside, correcting or having a look on what you're doing. But I would say it's probably a coach combined with analysis of your swim to first analyze where does it come from because you somehow apply power to your body that is not pushing you into a straight direction. That’s really what it comes down to.

Andrew: Coach Jenn, anything to add here about what you've noticed causes people to drift and things that you've done with your athletes to help fix this?

Jenn: Yeah, I'll hit most of them, but a lot of times at AFC, we'll pull out all the lane lines and have them have the athletes do just what Jan talked about. Close their eyes, swim 10, 15 strokes, and then stop. And some are amazed they're halfway across the 50-meter pool. You know, they didn't go straight at all. And generally, I see it coming from a form issue, they're crossing over, especially if they're breathing to one direction, they're probably crossing over with both arms, but when they're breathing, that arm's extended, but it's extending across and not straight out, which starts them on that path of going off. So the first thing is trying to fix what they're doing incorrectly. Because as you mentioned, once you get out in the open water, then you start adding in waves and currents and you've got a whole nother factors that are influencing how straight you swim.

Andrew: And I mentioned just a bit ago, sighting, for a lot of folks, I've heard athletes talk about how they put their head up while they're swimming and they find the next buoy, they put their head down, they think they're heading to the next buoy and all of a sudden they look up and they haven't been heading to that buoy. They've been heading towards a tree or over there. So talk to us about the role sighting plays in this, because if you are sighting every so often, if you're sighting regularly, you can make sure you're staying on track or you can catch yourself drifting on race day. If you're not sighting very often, or if you're not sighting very effectively, it can be easier to find yourself off course on race day. So Jenn, what role do you feel like sighting plays in this on race day? And what are some strategies for us to sight without interrupting our stroke too much?

Jenn: Sighting is critical. I mean, just as Jan said, every extra hundred meters you swim is going to add anywhere from—for Jan—under a minute, but for most of us, a minute or two minutes. So it's going to add a lot to your time. Ironman has made it really pretty easy. I mean, back when Jan and I were swimming first, there was a buoy every 500 meters. Now there's a buoy every a hundred meters. So if you can't, you should really be able to stay on course with a buoy every a hundred meters. I mean, but if you know, from practicing in the pool that you tend to drift one way or the other, you'll want to position yourself with that buoy on one side or the other. So that if I know I drift left, I'm going to try to keep the buoy more on my right. And sighting, I work with athletes all the time here in Austin, out in the open water and they're coming up and they're doing Tarzan stroke. And it's like, no, you know, that's not what we want. We want you to, as you're getting ready for your breath and you have that lead arm extended, just alligator look forward, roll right into that breath and keep going. If you didn't see the buoy, do it again. Same way, not coming high up out of the water. Now there's times where you might be in a lot of chop and you're going to have to come up higher out of the water to find that buoy, but you really want to minimize how much you're bringing your head up.

Andrew: I found it interesting, Jenn, when I was approaching Ironman Waco, because all of a sudden in my TriDot workouts, TriDot would add some prompts to take certain intervals and practice those alligator eyes practice sighting, looking forward in your stroke while you're breathing. Most TriDot workouts, it doesn't prompt you to do that, right? You're just banging out your workout. You're concentrating on your drills. You're concentrating on your form. But as you got close to the race day, TriDot was like, Hey, this is a skill you need to brush up on and make sure you have ready for race day. And it's exactly what you're talking about. So you can keep swimming and not have to stop swimming in order to sight the next buoy. So great insight from you. Jan, is there anything else in terms of sighting that you would add to the conversation on strategies for siding without interrupting your stroke, or maybe how you've practiced this personally in your own career?

Jan: Well, first I want to say, I learned a new term today as well. Alligator view. Yeah, alligator eyes. I haven't heard of that one before. So thanks for that new word. Number two, if there's a point to add, the water for most of us is an unfamiliar place and people are unfamiliar with it. And with that, it doesn't necessarily come comfort. It's more of a, I don't want to say fearful place, but it's not our natural habitat for most people. So, that also adds and that narrows your vision. It's when we are in flight mode or in running away mode, our vision gets narrowed down. And I think the same happens in the water. And then if you have choppy water, it even gets worse because there's some fear involved, even if it's just subconscious and it really limits your ability. So I think with all things, it's very important. If you can familiarize yourself with the open water body you're going to swim in the week before the race. I think that's hugely beneficial. And when it comes to sighting itself, I'd say one point I would add, and maybe it also relates to the points that we spoke about before is do not trust the feet ahead of you, not ever. Even in my career, there were moments when I had feet ahead of me and I they usually do not go the direction. It's like the old saying with the assumptions and that the assumptions are the mother of all hmm hmm hmm. It's the same thing with swimming behind feet, do not trust them, trust your own judgment and try to swim your own straight line because in most cases that's the best way to go, but everything else has been perfectly set on the technique. Try to blend it in and the further your head goes up, the more your legs go down in the back and they will stop you and they'll create resistance and you'll slow down and then you'll need more energy. You get slower and so on. And then you're in the vicious cycle.

Andrew: And that's a great point, Jan is every time your head comes up, the feet go down, you're increasing drag, you're losing energy, you're losing time. There's a lot of facets there. There's a local triathlon store in my area that hosts open water swims all through the summer on Saturday mornings just for people to be able to get into the lake. There's coaches there and it's a great little resource for Dallas Fort Worth based athletes. That's where I got my first experience and got comfortable getting in a lake and getting my head down and swimming longer. That was something that our coaches always pounded into particularly new athletes that were new to open water swimming is just continuous swimming. Finding when you stop to Tarzan stroke, or when you stop to look around, when you stop, identify why you're stopping and try to eliminate that. Try to get in your head. When I'm in this open water, I am swimming continuously until I hit that finish line. And until I get to T1, I'm swimming the whole time. Just steady state swimming, whatever it takes to get comfortable with that idea. Every time you stop, every time you put your legs down, you're increasing drag, you're losing time, you're losing energy. Great point there, Jan, about that. I feel like almost every single race I've done, and maybe this hasn't happened to Jan being in the pro field, out in front, but I think every race I do, there's that one guy or girl who everybody else is kind of in the same breath of space in the water, tracking from buoy to buoy to buoy. And there's always one person out in no man's land, heading perpendicular from everybody else in a way that's like, what are you doing? What are you looking at? How did you get way over there? Do you know what I'm talking about? Do you ever see that age grouper that's just kind of off in no man's land?

Jenn: I've done that once myself. I hate to admit.

Andrew: How did that happen?

Jenn: I don't know. It's a race I do almost every year down in Galveston, 70.3 Texas. And one year I just got going out way too wide. And I finally realized that when I was breathing predominantly right, I all of a sudden took a breath to the left and the field's all over there. And there's like maybe four or five people cause they followed me.

Andrew: So, you were the feet leading people astray on race day.

Jan: That's okay. If you do that at 70.3 in Texas, I've done that in 2004 at Ironman Hawaii in Kona. And I had Simon Lessig on one side and I've got like Chris McCormack and all these guys next to me and they all wanted my feet. My strategy was to do a little zigzag off the start to get rid of them. And I mean Simon was obviously a great swimmer. But unfortunately I started sighting towards the last buoy on the way back. And everybody, the whole pro field followed me and I noticed that at some point when the kayaker came and I was like, Oh, but that was definitely an extra 50 in 2004 for sure. So it happens to all of us.

Andrew: There's a drone shot somewhere of Jan heading to the wrong buoy in Kona. I will say this for our faithful audience: a few weeks from now, we have a podcast episode coming out with Scott Dickens from FORM Smart Swim Goggles and for those of you who are tech-minded, and like the new splashy tech, they do have some new goggles out that have some open water swim navigating features. And some of the things that we're talking about today they have some tools that can help athletes swim a little straighter, make sure they're tracking to the next buoy correctly. Hold onto your butts and listen to that episode when it drops here in just a few weeks. Jan and Jenn, you both already mentioned in the pool, doing things like taking the lane lines out, closing your eyes, seeing where you end up. I imagine if an athlete swims at a lap pool where they can't take the lane lines out, you can still close your eyes. If you have the lane to yourself, you can still close your eyes and see how long you can go before you bump the lane line. And then see how far you made it and which side you bumped it on.  Repeat that a couple of times, learn some of your tendencies. Is there anything else we can do in the pool? I certainly have access to open water. I know that the two of you do as well, but a lot of triathletes, they're in the pool 99% of the time. What are some things they can do to practice their sighting and practice swimming straighter when they're in the pool? Jan, what would you say?

Jan: We sometimes build it into our swim practice that we do the crocodile eyes, or the alligator, depending on what continent you live. We do that sometimes, also obviously not as recommended than for open water swimming itself. Water polo freestyle will help you to get more acquainted to that position, even though you should really try to avoid it. But if there is choppy waters and the waves are big, there were years in Kona where you couldn't see anything because the waves were so big then, and you had to literally swim water polo freestyle for like 5 to 10 seconds to have somewhat of an idea where the next buoy was. So that is something for worst-case scenario, to practice. That would be my recommendation.

Andrew: Coach Jenn, anything else that you guys do at Austin Aquatics for your triathletes to practice open water while they're in the lap pool?

Jenn: Usually each spring we'll pull all those lane lines out and hold a clinic, and I'll take those little bouncy balls that kids sit on that have a handle and I'll tie a 10-pound weight to it. So I'll set up buoys in the pool, and we'll practice sighting on the buoy first and we'll practice learning how to turn around it. And then I'll figure out who's fastest, the slowest, and I'll set them up reverse, and I'll have the slowest person go off, and we'll swim like a big rectangle in the pool learning to draft. So we can do all those skills right in the pool when we have access to a whole 50-meter pool without lane lines. It's really a lot of fun. Generally, if those lane lines are in, I'll pick a cone or something that they can sight off of. Again, it's going to just be straightforward. So it's really not as applicable as being out in open water, but it gets them with that head movement so that they're getting those alligator eyes looking forward and right into their breath. And start with, okay, you have to look once per 25, and then you have to look twice per 25 and just building that in so that they can get that timing down. It's not always the easiest thing, but they struggle with getting stuck in that up position. So a lot of things we practice first in the pool, and then we try to take that out to the open water.

Andrew: All great insight. And obviously wherever you swim, take what Jan and Coach Jenn are telling us and apply what you can to your own swim situation. And Jenn, you kind of transitioned us to our next topic. Cause I wanted to ask about rounding the buoys on race day. And this is something that I don't think about as a skill. I don't go into a race with a strategy of how I'm going to go around the buoys until I get to the buoy. And it's like, well, crap, is it best to hug the buoy and kind of get bogged down in the traffic that's hugging the buoy? Is it best to give the buoys some space and have some clearer water to keep my swim form? What are kind of the most efficient ways to get around those buoys when we get there? And it's kind of two things, right? Sometimes you get there and you're the only one there and you can kind of do what you want. Sometimes there's a pretty big crowd that's gathered around the buoy. Jenn, what do you coach your athletes to do when it comes to efficiently getting around those buoys on race day?

Jenn: During those clinics, I love demonstrating the corkscrew around the buoy where you drop your inside arm and you go over onto your back, do a stroke, a backstroke and roll back over into freestyle again. I've only done that maybe a few times in a race one time because I wanted to see who was on my feet. I kept getting tired of getting tapped. But most of the time you end up at the buoy and there's 20 people at the buoy and they all stop and they're having a party in the water and they're looking at, it's like, oh man, I made it to the first buoy, turn buoy, or I don't know what's going on. So in that situation, if I'm sighting well, and I see that it's kind of gotten busy, I'll definitely go a little wide. Get just past the buoy and then make my turn. Make that turn by just dropping my inside arm, taking a couple of quick strokes with my outer arm. And then I'm right back on course going across. If it's clear sailing, of course, I'm going to hug the buoy, but still I'm going to swim. So I'm just starting to come past it before I make that turn. So I don't turn into the buoy because I've caught the buoy line, but not a separate buoy line like Jan. But a lot of times I've given the buoy a good catch.

Andrew: Some good contact.

Jenn: Damn it! That just slowed me down 10 seconds!

Andrew: I love the suggestion, Jenn, of intentionally taking a peek as you're getting closer to the buoy. Jan, how do you coach this? How do you teach this? What do you tell swimmers to do when it comes to getting around those buoys? And what did you do in your own pro career?

Jan: One thing that strikes me is, and what I find maybe not irritating, but what I find weird is that some people, if they are, let's say a hundred meters away or a hundred yards away from the buoy and they already take the outside road, right? I mean yes, we have to watch traffic and all that, but what I would suggest or what I would recommend is, up to, let's say maybe when you're 10 meters away from the buoy, really swim straight to it because, or head for it straight dead on. And only once you are closer, let's say 10 to 20 meters, then make that call, that decision, whether you take the inside road or you go a little bit for the outside, because there's so much traffic. Like when you're already like a hundred meters out and you're not veering dead on towards the buoy, you're definitely swimming a lot more. And that easily adds up into the 50, a hundred meters or so. So that's something where I always think, guys, just swim straight until you get there. And then once you're there, then you can make the decision and add another five meters to your swim around it, or add another 10 meters or so. Now on the corkscrew move, I think it's a super slick move if you can do it right. It looks really cool. I wouldn't recommend it if there's a lot of traffic at a buoy because it's probably destined to go wrong. But especially if there's a very sharp angle and you basically swim less than 90 degrees and you swim kind of backwards after the buoy, then it's definitely a very nice move to completely alter your direction. Whereas if you only swim around the buoy and you turn by 30, 40, 50 degrees or so, it's usually easily done by just a small correction to the left or to the right.

Andrew: I want to talk about how we position ourselves in relation to other people. And we've talked about that a little bit here in terms of rounding buoys and being aware of others are. Obviously we hear that drafting on the swim is free speed. It's free time. If you can find the right feet, but then we don't want to find the wrong feet. So when it comes to positioning ourselves in the group, some people are very averse to contact and contact with other swimmers gives them anxiety. Some people are totally fine with that. What are y'all's coaching tips when it comes to where as a swimmer, we should position ourselves in relation to the pack and how to navigate the course in relation to the swimmers around us? Jan, what would you say?

Jan: I think nowadays that there is, especially in Ironman races, not that many mass starts anymore, it has become less of an issue or a problem, the positioning, especially at the start. So you basically go in a straight line and you go in whenever you are, when it's your call. And I think before the start, you position yourself according to your swim time or projected swim time. If you are in a mass start situation for sure, if you are not somebody who likes to be attached or hit, you gotta go on the side or on the back. That's really the only way. And again, the best piece of advice is to trust your own sighting and not to trust the person or people or the mob ahead of you. So to get a clear view on that direction. And another point I would like to add in that context, if something then it happened to probably all of us, you get a kick or you have some water in your goggle or so, especially if you're surrounded by quite a few swimmers, it is usually not the best idea to kind of get up and stop because then everything what's behind you, you don't see that. And it's going to crash into you, and you're stopping, right? And let's say there's water in your goggles. If you have the technical abilities, turn on your back, keep kicking a little bit or and you'll at least see who's coming at you. You can clear out your goggles, clear the water out and then turn around again. Usually you don't fully stop and come to a standstill, but you're still drifting a little bit. Then you turn around and then it's also easier to pick up speed again. That would be my advice if something does go wrong or not go wrong, but if you have enemy contact to navigate around that.

Andrew: Really good tip. I've definitely come up exactly what you're talking about, popped up out of the water to fix a goggle issue or brush them off really quick or something. And could have spun around on my back and that I just didn't think about it. I didn't think about staying on top of the water like that and keeping the full momentum going. So I really like that suggestion from Jan. Coach Jenn, when it comes to contact with other swimmers, when it comes to swimming in relation to other people, what are some strategies you employ yourself on the race course? And what do you coach your athletes to do when it comes to swimming and playing nice with others in the water?

Jan: Well, one thing you shouldn't do is my very first cone is I've always been a good swimmer for my age group. And so I thought I'd line up back, mass start, both men and women. I was right in front, right in the middle. And it was a turbulent washing machine. I mean, I've never been in so much contact. And I finally, I mean, I’ve never panicked in the water, but I was starting to panic. And I realized I've got like maybe a hundred, 200 people here with me, but I've got 2000 behind me, I've got to just keep going. And ever since that swim, if it's a mass start, I'm trying to decide I'm going to start on the outer edge so I can get to clear water if I need it. And, you know, which outer edge do I pick kind of depends on what the shape of the course is. And I got to do that most recently in challenge Roth. I think I talked about that on the podcast last week is it was a mass, not a mass start, but wave start by random—I think they were using swim finish time and they set you into waves. So I'm in a wave with a lot of 30, 40, 50 year old men and some young women. And it's like, am I going to get my butt kicked? I better start off to the side. And it's the first time I've ever started off to the side and not in front. Cause I just didn't know what to expect. So I started to the far left because I knew I could escape into the middle a little bit. Cause there was a buffer zone between out and kind of rectangular course. So, you know, someone who is really has a lot of anxiety in open water swims. I always recommend that, you know, in, especially with the time trial starts now at Ironman races is, you know, seed yourself correctly. Don't seriously underestimate your swim time or overestimate because we know that people are going to see themselves way up faster than they swim, but the majority of us are pretty truthful and kind of get in the right spot. So if it's a simple one or two go at a time, it's no big deal what side you're on. Occasionally I'll get to a time trial start where there's maybe six or eight of us starting off of a dock together. And again, I kind of use my pick an outer edge. I don't like to be in the middle cause I just like to avoid contact. So if you're that kind of person, shoot for that outer edge, it's not going to add, but a few strokes as you start. Because as soon as you get in, you can narrow and start sighting right on those buoys. Finding the right feet can be really fun. Finding the wrong feet can really be disastrous. So always make sure as Jan said, that you're sighting for yourself and you're not trusting that person that you think is giving you a great ride.

Andrew: I do want to ask specifically about drafting because I feel like it's easier said than done when you're actually out in the water to find somebody who's swimming the appropriate pace you want to swim. My understanding Jan is that the two places you can effectively draft in the water is right on somebody's feet or kind of right to the side kind of by their hip, right? Where their legs are kind of generating that kick. When you're actually out there in the water and you're doing your thing, you're swimming, you're shoulder to shoulder with these pro guys. How do you get yourself in that spot and stay in that spot in relation to another swimmer?

Jan: You know, it's tricky. And I think first point is I would probably, ideally you have someone who knows swims in a straight line. If you have that, and if that person is a little bit faster than you and to then draft off that person, is that would be the ideal scenario. So it's oftentimes a lot easier said than done. But it's also easier for the pros because they usually wear different swim cap color and you can identify them, or you see them by their swimsuit. You can identify them. It's correct that the two best places are either on the feet, or kind of like right in that wave that the hip creates. Now that one is a lot harder to stay in, but it's definitely also the more beneficial ride. I would say if you can stay on the hip, but usually the other person notices, I mean, you have the other person basically within centimeters of you on the side and that ride if you don't have a ticket for that ride, that I can tell you, I wouldn't let anybody swim there for a long time. Cause that's a surfboard kind of easy ride. So I don't think that you should bank on that. And that's what you usually see in most pro races or in all races, I would say, it's usually they're stacked up one after the other. It's up to like a meter behind the feet, you're still in okay shape, but once you're out of the draft, yeah. Let's say half a meter to a meter, the faster the speed, the further away you can be. But if you drop back more than a meter, then that's definitely dangerous territory because then you'll feel it immediately. If you get out of the draft zone, how much harder it is. And it's even more harder to get back into it because usually the faster swimmer is ahead of you and you're basically getting the ride. So you have to pay really, really, good attention. And when you look at the swims such as in Kona, for example, and you have these big groups falling apart, it's usually because someone doesn't pay attention for five to 10 seconds and then the train is gone. That's usually it. And then it's really hard to reconnect.

Andrew: Very, very interesting. Thanks for that additional commentary from the pro field. One other thing that can really, I will add this, I probably should have asked about practicing in the pool after we talked about this because contact with other swimmers and swimming in relation to other swimmers is something that we can practice in the pool. And even with, I used to help coach a youth and junior team and with the youth and juniors, when race day was coming up, we would put three or four athletes in a lane, shoulder to shoulder and have them swim down and back, shoulder to shoulder, just to practice contact and arm sitting and getting comfortable swimming in relation to other swimmers. But even if you're at an adult lap pool, split in the lane with a few folks, I mean, just having other people in the lane, just makes you a little bit more comfortable with swimming in close proximity to others. It makes you more mindful of the people that are around you looking out for them. So that's something that you can definitely practice in the pool as well and kind of gain confidence being close to other people. Another thing that can really prevent us from swimming straight and swimming the course effectively is when a course has waves and current and sometimes rivers have different currents. A lot of times those beach swims have waves rolling through and different currents once you get farther out there. So talk to us about when it comes to navigating a course with waves and current, how we can cut through those, minimize the effect of those and stay on a straight course, even though the water is trying to push us in a certain direction or two. Jan, what have you done in your own pro career to swim so efficiently when there's waves and current around?

Jan: It's exposure, exposure, exposure. That's full on experience, and you need to experience it many times until you get familiar with it. You need to develop a feeling for do the waves roll? Do the waves push? What does the current do? Does it change? And all that. I think if we look at one very common scenario, I would say it's the typical, you swim out from the beach and you swim against the waves. In general, if there's not a rocky bottom, it's usually the lower, the deeper you get under the wave, the better you are off because then the wave won't pick you up and bring you back to the beach. You see that quite often also. So it's maybe not intuitive, but if you really think about it, the wave is mostly on the surface, right? It's not on the bottom of the ocean or so. And so the lower you can dive, which is tough when you wear a wetsuit, but the deeper you can dive underneath the wave, the easier you'll have it to get through it. And the trickier part oftentimes is to get back into shore, especially when the waves are high. You do not want to get picked up by the wave and slammed down onto the ground or onto the beach or anything. It's really important to look back to see what's coming behind you. And you don't want to have a wave, a two-meter wave crushing on top of you that really hurts. So always do a couple of strokes, backstroke, turn around, see what's behind you, what's coming. And especially in that shore break situation and those very last 20, 30, 40, 50 meters of getting onto the beach that's usually critical. But you can only get familiar with it if you are exposed to it before and you get a feeling for it and it's draining and it can be a lot of fun, don’t get me wrong. There's some really dangerous shore breaks, then there is some very harmless shore breaks where the waves just roll. So try to train it in a more harmless situation. So that's so much for waves. I leave the current for Jenn.

Andrew: Coach Jenn, talk to us about currents.

Jenn: It's usually you're in a river. With Ironman, we've had some really fast with the current swims and they can be a little bit intimidating too, because I did 70.3 Oregon last year. It just happened this past weekend this year, but it's shallow in a few places and you look down and you're going by the rocks so fast. It really freaked me out. I almost swam as fast as Jan there. I was going 49 seconds per hundred.

Andrew: So that's what it feels like to be that fast!

Jenn: Oh my, it was so fun. I did it three days in a row, two days before the race and then on race day. But it was that practice getting in there, getting to the race site ahead of time so that I could get in the water and have a feel for the temperature and the speed. And there you have to be careful about making a turn to the right to get out quick enough and not get swept away with the current. Then there's not that many swims where you're actually swimming against the current. I would think it's a little bit like swimming into the waves that I can't have those long, smooth strokes that I like to do in the pool. I've got to increase my tempo and shorten my stroke and just try to get through it. There's usually a spot that's going to, whether you're in the middle or towards an edge, you need to know where there's less current. We have lots of good recon these days with all the different Facebook pages for the races that are talking about the current and where to be from people that have experienced it before. Finding someone who's experienced that swim before getting out there a few days before, so you can hopefully get in the water. There are a few races that don't allow any kind of swim prior. That's where you're going to rely on some intel from people that have done it before.

Andrew: It goes to what Jan said about exposure. Now, two questions left and we'll shut it down for today. And both of these are about equipment they’re about different gear that can help us with swimming straighter, navigating better, comfort and open water. And Jan, one of them is just what we're wearing. You know this firsthand with Sailfish, a good wetsuit and a properly fitting swim skin, depending on your water temperature and conditions, I imagine can add a lot of confidence and a lot of water feel to an open water swim situation. A lot of these skills we're talking about swimming straight, sighting better, staying on top of the water, swimming continuously. As you talk to athletes about how their wetsuit is affecting them, how their wetsuit is and swim skins are positioning them in the water. Are those tools that can help us navigate the course better in just your experience working with athletes?

Jan: 100%. I mean, I'm in that business for almost two decades now. It definitely pays off to wear quality because even let's put it that way, even if it doesn't help you, let's say if it doesn't help you to swim faster by any means, if you wear something with good quality and you don't have to think about that, because again, we are in a territory where we are in an element that we're not naturally in. So you're worrying about 20 things. So everything you need to worry about, or you don't need to worry about, or need to worry about less, that's great. So if you don't even have to think about your wetsuit or you don't have to think about your swim skin because it fits well, because you can move in it, because if you're comfortable in it, then that's already a win. And maybe one note on swim skins—swim skins, yes, primarily you wear them over your race suits and they're coated and the coating is faster than your human skin. But I find that the best or the biggest benefit of a swim skin is actually the support it gives your body in staying in a straight line or in staying straight and not to have to engage your core muscles at all times to keep the body in a straight line and which eventually will also make you swim faster. And I think that's because swimsuit, swim skin doesn't have buoyancy, but that's why people swim 4, 5, 6, 10 seconds faster in a swim skin than with a regular swimsuit. Because they get that compression of the body and the body kind of doesn't fall apart. So there you go, biggest benefit of a good quality product.

Andrew: And here in Texas, it's so interesting because so many athletes stress when they go to a race on, is it going to be wetsuit legal? And in Texas, we have so many warm water, open water swims, it's almost a requirement to have a wetsuit and a swim skin. And you just take both to the race and you don't have to stress anymore. Whatever the temperature is, you're well equipped already for the water. And long time listeners to the podcast will know I am swimming myself in a Sailfish wetsuit and TriDot and Saifish have just a great working relationship together. And I'm heart warmed Jan to start seeing, I've noticed this race season, the 2024 race season, I've noticed way more TriDot athletes posting their race pictures when the weekend hits, when metal Monday hits that they're posting, oh, I raced this, I raced that. And I'm seeing more and more

Sailfish wetsuits on our athletes. And so I think the message is finally sinking in that man, a lot of our staff have switched over to Sailfish wetsuits. We've demoed them and man, it's a great quality product. And Jenn, you very recently, very organically, found yourself in a Sailfish wetsuit for challenge Roth. Do you want to tell Jan about your experience buying and racing in your new Sailfish wetsuit?

Jan: I don't know about this story.

Jenn: Only if I won't get a black mark for using something brand new in a race that I've never, you always tell your athletes, don't do—

Andrew: We’ll allow it.

Jenn: —Don't do anything new on race day. My bike box got delayed and my wetsuit was in my bike box. And so we were having a practice swim. So I figured I was going to make the airline pay for a new wetsuit and Sailfish was there. And I pulled it on and said, oh, this fits fine. I mean, I've had so many different wetsuits. But I wanted to go an hour to an hour five. I went an hour three. It was a beautifully fitting wetsuit. I really wanted a different model, but you didn't have it in my size. I got the one with the top with all the flotation in the side panels. And as a swimmer, I could probably get away without that, but I didn't have to kick at all. I just floated in that swim.

Andrew: That discount code will be in the show notes today, as it often is in our shows, as we hear at TriDot, we take very seriously what brands we align ourselves with and TriDot and Sailfish has been a beautiful partnership and man, we love the wetsuits. The last question I have for today, and it's another gear related question. I'm talking about goggles and I very specifically remember when I became a triathlete, I had my first open water swim coming up and you read all these things about mirrored goggles and this tint that's supposed to be really good for foggy mornings and this tint for direct sunlight. And that there were certain goggle brands that you go to their website and you can pick this model goggle and there's 14 different tints to the goggle. And frankly, I was overwhelmed. I didn't know what I needed to buy, right? And goggle tint is a real thing, having goggles that have a certain tint can definitely help in certain situations. So just talk to us and Jan Sailfish produces goggles, you know, so you're very well versed in this. Talk to us about what different tints can do for a swimmer and how importantly for this conversation that can help us navigate the course better just by being able to see better.

Jan: You know, I guess it depends on what potential customer we're talking to or what potential triathlete. If you are a nerd, a material nerd, of course you need 10 different tints. But if you want to keep it practical, it's probably 2 to a maximum of 3 that will be sufficient. For the early morning swims or whenever there's bad weather or when it's dark or you, then for sure you need a bright or no tint at all. So just clear glasses. Obviously it's good to know where does the sun rise? Usually we don't start a triathlon when the sun sets. So that's not really an issue, but once the sun rises and you have a look at the course and is there, are there segments of the course when you swim directly straight into the sunlight, then it for sure helps if you have darker glasses in order to navigate. But goggles is such an individual thing. It's oftentimes for a long time, trial and error. What people like most, me as a former swimmer, I grew up with a classic Sweden goggle. We call it the Sweden goggle, basically reduced to the minimum, and pretty much nothing fancy about it. And then, all the way to the tech goggles from FORM, who have innovated a ton out of the space. They are amazing. There's a super wide, super big bandwidth to choose from, and it's trial and error. Once you found something that fits your face, that maybe doesn't get foggy over time, then stick with it. That's all I can recommend.

Andrew: No, really good. And it's comforting to hear that we don't need a seven goggle rotation. As long as we have a goggle for cloudy or darker conditions, a goggle for more bright, direct sunlight conditions, we're all set. So that's comforting to hear, coach Jenn, anything to add on what you consider personally when you're going out on race day with your goggle selection and how that can impact an athlete's ability to sight well and swim a course really straight and efficiently.

Jenn: I think Jan covered the goggle selection pretty well. One that I hear often is my goggles fog. I always tell my athletes, once you find a goggle that you like, buy a couple pair, don't wear the pair you're going to wear for open water swimming, but in open water, don't wear them in the chlorine. The chlorine is going to start to destroy the fog protection. So, find that goggle you like, practice with it once or twice in the open water to make sure it fits. Cause you can buy the same goggle, like you can buy the same running shoe and sometimes it seems to change. So just make sure that it works and have that as your race goggle. Usually each season I'll end up having one or two pairs that are just strictly, I'm going to use them on race day. I've tested them once or twice in open water. They work great. If I find that they're going to fog, a lot of times I see people with their goggles on their head for an hour before the race. If it's a cold morning and your body temperature warms that goggle up and then you get into cold water, it's going to fog. I don't care what you've done to it. It's going to fog just because of that change in temperature. So I try to tell my athletes, don't wear your goggles, hold onto them by the strap. I'll still treat if I've used a pair a few times, I'll treat them either with a little bit of baby shampoo and rinse the night before, or I love a product called Spit, but if you don't rinse it well, it stings the heck out of your eyes. But I do the night before my race in the hotel, I clean my goggles, I clean the outside so that they're not all fingerprints and I just let them dry overnight and then they're ready to go.

Cool down theme: Great set everyone! Let’s cool down.

Vanessa Ronksley: I’m Vanessa, your average triathlete with elite level enthusiasm. And it is my pleasure to be here with Ben Bernard, who will be sharing a coach cool down tip for us today. Ben holds five degrees, one of which is a master's in exercise physiology. He is a team lead of data science, statistics instructor, a reserve officer of the U.S. Public Health Service Reserve Corps, and a TriDot athlete and coach. On the triathlon side of things, Ben moved over to TriDot as an athlete and coach in 2022 after starting his coaching career in 2009. At that time, he was involved with paratriathletes at a local university. Since then, he has focused on working with beginner athletes who've come to triathlon from very diverse sporting backgrounds. He currently lives in Keller, Texas and claims that his most notable athletic achievement is his two young children. Welcome to the cool down, Ben.

Ben Bernard: Thank you.

Vanessa: I heard that you had quite the experience in your first ever Olympic tri because this was actually the first time you tackled an open water swim. And not only that, the water was freezing. How did that turn out for you?

Ben: So I finished. So it was a collegiate club national race. And, you know, I'd been doing sprints and everything, and when I was part of the UTA tri club, we were like, yeah, we're going to go to nationals. Okay? Let's do this. And the race was in April. And so it was cold. And not a lot of lead in time to get in open water, because it's winter. And then it's like, oh, you're going to need a wetsuit. It's like, oh no. Okay. And so that was also the first time I’d ever been in a wetsuit. It was a beach start. We all run in and there was just a lot of excitement through the whole swim course that I wasn't really thinking about, am I drowning or am I not? It was more like, whoa, this is a different experience. Even the cold wasn't so bad. But I do remember the wetsuit being way too tight. Way too tight. But I didn’t know any better.

Vanessa: What tip do you have for us today?

Ben: My tip for today is listen to your coach and maybe take it a step further, do active listening because the coaches need to know that you understand. And at the same time, the coaches need more information to give good advice. At the end of the day, they are trying to support our goals, our dreams. If we're not doing what they're asking, are we really supporting our own?

Vanessa: One of the things I love about the TriDot training platform is that because the program is generated based on these thousands of data points collected throughout training, there is time for the athlete and the coach to have these wonderful conversations, which might not be available if the coach is busy creating a program from scratch. So I think that the ability to have that time to communicate all the different pieces of the puzzle is very valuable. And then having that opportunity for your coach to provide their insight and the outsider's perspective on what is happening with the athlete is really valuable. And then, from there, you can listen to your coach and do what they tell you to do, even though it might be something that you don't want to do.

Ben: That's kind of what I love about TriDot so much, having all that more time with your athletes allows you to care more. Because if you're always going into the numbers and saying, I need to change this, I need to change this, and spending 90% of your time doing that, you’re not talking to your athletes, you're not caring for them. I think that's part of the joy of being a coach, caring.

Vanessa: I one hundred percent agree with you.

Ben: So, if I was going to add something about listening to your coach, I would say that listening brings on a level of trust with your coach. And the more that you can show that you have that level of trust, the more that coaches can give you. Because I know they're listening, and so I don’t need to focus on these things, I can focus on more important things for the athlete, that might have larger repercussions. I think some people don't understand that triathlon takes a lot of your time as an athlete. And it becomes part of your family. And when you get a coach, that coach becomes part of your family. That coach is going to be potentially talking to your family to make sure you are okay. And so if you are not successful in your family, you're not successful with your races and the coach is not going to be successful.

Outro: Thanks for joining us. Make sure to subscribe and share the TriDot podcast with your triathlon crew. For more great tri content and community, connect with us on Facebook, YouTube, and Instagram. Ready to optimize your training? Head to tridot.com and start your free trial today! TriDot – the obvious and automatic choice for triathlon training.

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