Intro: This is the TriDot podcast. TriDot uses your training data and genetic profile, combined with predictive analytics and artificial intelligence to optimize your training, giving you better results in less time with fewer injuries. Our podcast is here to educate, inspire, and entertain. We’ll talk all things triathlon with expert coaches and special guests. Join the conversation and let’s improve together.

Andrew Harley: Hey folks! Welcome to a new episode of the TriDot podcast. It’s a run focused episode today and jeez, what a time to be alive if you are into the run scene. I don’t think the running world has ever had as many quality run shoe options as it does right now. So I’m excited to nerd out on running shoes with some new friends who are fellow podcasters and are run industry experts. Our guests today are Thomas Neuberger and Meaghan Murray. They are the founders of Big Run Media, Believe in the Run, and the Baltimore based Faster Bastards Running Group. Their YouTube Channel, Believe in the Run, is a personal favorite of mine plus they host The Drop running podcast and partner with a sports dietician for the Fuel for the Sole podcast. Thomas and Meaghan are both experienced marathoners and have put miles in hundreds of running shoes to produce top notch run gear reviews for Believe in the Run athletes. So Thomas, Meaghan welcome to the TriDot podcast!

Thomas Neuberger: Thanks! Thanks for having us.

Meaghan Murray: Yeah we’re excited to be here.

Andrew: I’m Andrew, the Average Triathlete, Voice of the People and Captain of the Middle of the Pack. As always we'll treat the show like any good workout. We’ll roll through our warm up question, settle in for our run shoe related main set topic, and then wind things down with our cool down.

If you are a listener and you don’t use TriDot for your triathlon training, we’re glad you’re here. Our podcast exists for all triathletes and right now we actually are looking for non-TriDot athletes to participate in our preseason research project. You get two months of free triathlon training and we get data that helps make TriDot better and better. It’s a win-win all the way around so head to TriDot.com/PSP. That’s TriDot.com/PSP to check it out.

Warm up theme: Time to warm up! Let’s get moving.

Andrew: Without a doubt the running shoe is one of the most versatile clothing items in our closets. It’s the blue jeans and t-shirt of footwear and can be on foot for training, racing, errands, around town, yard work, work work, vacation, hiking, biking, lounging around the house and more. But just because we can wear running shoes everywhere doesn’t mean we should wear running shoes everywhere, but what if you had to. For our warmup question today, if you had to wear one pair of running shoes to everything you do for a single calendar year, what model are you picking? And Meaghan, let’s start with you. What do you think?

Meaghan: So this is a really hard warm up question, I’ll just say that…

Andrew: Yeah.

Meaghan: …but I think if I had to I would go with the New Balance More V3 for everything. That’s a very high stack cushion shoe that I love wearing for easy days. I wear it to the grocery store. It’d be hard to race in, but I’d do it. I think…

Andrew: Okay.

Meaghan: Yeah, I think that would be my pick.

Thomas: See, and I’ll go the other direction just because I want to be ready for race day. So I’m going to go– I’m going to go with the Alphafly or the Vaporfly just to have it ready to go. It’s not great for daily wear, but I don’t want to be unprepared on race day.

Andrew: So you’re going to wear the elf shoe just everywhere whether it’s a wedding, to the grocery store, to whatever just to be ready for race day. So that’s your approach Thomas?

Thomas: Yeah. I think they have some customization that you can do in the ID app at Nike so I can get it down to colors and styles that match the event. So like black tie, just go all black. You know, I could make it work.

Andrew: Sure. Yep. Totally get that. And to your point, Meaghan, yeah, this is kind of like starting off your workout with speed work, right?

Meaghan: Yeah.

Andrew: It’s a very aggressive warm up question and I’ve never thought about it before, but when I invite guests like yourself onto the show who aren’t kind of in our normal TriDot coach rotation; you know our TriDot coaches are very used to my kind of crazy, off the wall warmup questions, but for a guest coming on it’s like, oh, you get invited onto a podcast and you pop on and your very first question is just something like this. So thanks guys for jumping in with those answers.

Thomas: That would actually be a great question if we were doing like a run and you just wanted to have a conversation with someone you don’t know. So like a good conversation starter for a long run.

Andrew: Yeah. You can learn a lot about somebody just by their favorite running shoe, right?

Meaghan: For sure.

Thomas: We have one guy who asks “would you rather fight a hundred duck-sized horses or one horse-sized duck?” and that was how he started the long run.

Andrew: I kid you know, so every 25 episodes we do like an audience Q&A episode where our audience can submit questions and our coaches will answer them. So we have that episode recording coming up. So I asked our audience, “hey, what do you guys want to know? What are you wondering about right now?” and somebody literally, I kid you not, submitted that very question.

Thomas: There you go. I think it’s making it’s rounds. Look out for that horse-sized duck.

Andrew: It’s out there somewhere. So this for me guys is the Sketcher’s Go Run Razor Excess. So the Sketcher’s Razor line is one of my favorites. And you guys know from reviewing it, it’s just so great for speed work days. It’s a very versatile shoe. It’s got enough cushion, but it’s very responsive. So I actually have not run in the Sketcher’s Go Run Razor Excess. I’m currently in the Razor Plus, but just from reading the Believe in the Run reviews of the Razor Excess, I can tell that it’s very similar. If nothing else it’s just an improved version and so just if I’m going to wear a shoe all day, every day for every single thing that I do, Meaghan kind of the same approach as you I want it to have a little bit more cushion. I want it to be a little bit more plushy. I want it to be friendly to my foot wherever I’m going. So that’s my pick. You know, thanks to y’alls reviews. I love the Sketcher’s Razor line and that’s kind of my pick for this question.

Thomas: It definitely gets tough to pick between the Razors because there’s so many versions.

Meaghan: Yeah.

Andrew: And they’re so similar right?

Thomas: I know. It’s all like, “I know!”

Andrew: Hey guys, we’re going to throw this question out to you like we always do. Make sure you are a member of the I AM TriDot Facebook group. Every single Monday when our new episode drops we throw this question out to that Facebook group and just get tons of fun responses. So I want to know from you guys. I know that everybody has their favorite, go-to running shoes. I know you kind of have a running shoe rotation and I’m curious to hear if you had to wear one running shoe for a full calendar year everywhere you went; when you go to church you’re wearing it. When you go to the grocery store, you’re wearing it. When you go for a run, you’re wearing it. On race day, like Thomas and his Vaporflys, you’re wearing it. What is that go-to run shoe for you?

Main set theme: On to the main set. Going in 3…2…1…

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Andrew: New goggle day, new bike day, and new shoe day are all endorphin producing events in the life of a triathlete and with the typical lifespan of our running shoes being the shortest of the three, for most triathletes new shoe day comes around most often. With so many quality brands, models, foams, and drops to choose from it can feel difficult to have new shoe day be an overwhelming success. So here to help shepherd us through our shoe selections are Thomas and Meaghan from Believe in the Run. So Thomas, Meaghan, let’s start with a little romance today. When did you actually fall in love with running as a sport? Where did it all start for you?

Thomas: Why don’t you go first Meg?

Meaghan: So we were both actually– I guess you would call us late bloomers into running. Neither of us were on the track teams in school. I found running sort of in college. Basically I grew up my whole life playing sports and anything I could; soccer, lacrosse, and when I went to college I just stopped playing all of them.

Andrew: Okay.

Meaghan: So like in a way to stay active and fit I just started jogging and didn’t really think much of it. I would just go out to stay healthy and run a few miles every now and then and actually Thomas is a big reason of why I got into racing and why I’m now a full blown marathoner. We met at work and he was an avid runner at the time and convinced me to sign up for a race that led to my first marathon and then that was it.

Andrew: Good quality peer pressure, right?

Thomas: Well yeah, I mean it was wasted. I would see her runs and she was running pretty quick even though they weren’t long runs. I’m like, “your pace is pretty good for someone who’s not even trying to run fast.”

Andrew: Yeah.

Thomas: And then she did her first ten mile race and I think you placed maybe age group or something. It was like ridiculous and just from there it started. She just has now dominated.

Andrew: Well and Meaghan your– so I don’t know your PRs. I mean just from listening to your podcast I know Meaghan you are a sub three hour marathoner with your PR. Is that correct? What’s your PR and where did you set it?

Meaghan: 2:52.

Andrew: Nice!

Meaghan: Which I just did in Indianapolis in November last year.

Andrew: Very cool. Congrats.

Meaghan: Thank you!

Andrew: And Thomas, what is it for you? I don’t think I’ve ever heard that stat for you either.

Thomas: 3:20. So Meaghan is much faster than I am and that was the best part. It’s like I created a monster. It’s like, there was a couple marathons where I was able to run faster than her and then I think it was at Outer Banks we were running like our third or fourth marathon together and Meaghan just dropped the hammer on me and–

Andrew: Yeah.

Thomas: –ever since then I’ve been in the taillights.

Andrew: No I love it. So Thomas, where did you kind of discover running and fall in love with running in the first place?

Thomas: Yeah, I mean I had had my father pass away and some other personal stuff going on in my life that kind of brought me to this new low and I went to a 5K in Baltimore and I saw all these happy people. You know, it wasn’t the bar scene, it wasn’t the other stuff that I was used to and I was like, “I want what these people have.”

Andrew: Yeah.

Thomas: And I just felt that energy and that excitement. So I signed up right after the 5K I was going to sign up for a half marathon because I was like maybe I’ll commit to something big and my friend who is a runner was like, “nah, just do the marathon. You’ll do a half marathon while you’re training for the marathon.” And I kind of got hooked. Once I got the fitness up I was just like I don’t want to lose the fitness and I–

Andrew: Yeah.

Thomas: –and then it just was like finishing a marathon and signing up for another one and now it’s to a point where we have it on the schedule like four marathons this year already signed up for.

Andrew: No, very cool.

Thomas: It’s just, yeah, nuts.

Andrew: Yeah. There’s no day like race day. So we totally get it. I mean triathlon race day is a little different from marathon race day, but a lot of similarities there. I’ve actually never run a stand alone marathon. My only marathon was– my first and only– was obviously the marathon I ran at the tail end of Ironman Waco. So I don’t really even know what I could do Thomas. I would probably be more so with you. We would both be watching Meaghan go off to her sub three hours and we’d be hanging out in the middle of the three hour pack.

So completely by coincidence, I did not plan this when I asked you guys to come onto the show, but you guys just raced– Thomas for you it was your second triathlon, Meaghan for you it was your first triathlon. You did 70.3 Florida in Haines City, Florida. How did it go? What did you guys think of swim, bike, and run?

Meaghan: So I would say neither of us prepared as we should have…

Andrew: Okay.

Meaghan: …for an Ironman, specifically your first one. We did some pool swimming. I did some indoor cycling. I had never used clip-ins on a bike outside before race day.

Andrew: Wow! That’s bold.

Meaghan: The day before race day I learned; the Saturday before the Sunday race and never did an open water swim.

Andrew: Okay.

Meaghan: Obviously was feeling pretty fine on the run.

Thomas: Well pretty fine…she came in first place for women for the run.

Andrew: Yeah, I saw that. Once I found out you guys did the race, I did properly stalk you to see how you did and Meaghan you did incredible especially knowing– because your swim time wasn’t far off what mine would be. Just a few minutes slower. So knowing that you never did an open water swim it’s like, “Awe man! That’s awesome!” Then knowing that you rode with clipless pedals for the first time that day, you had a solid bike split and then your run was fantastic. So that’s cool to see you crush it.

Thomas: Retro road bike.

Andrew: So was it different doing the run having done a swim and bike first? How did the legs feel?

Meaghan: It was much less enjoyable than any half marathon I’ve ever done. It also happened to be very hot and the course was not awesome. It was kind of sidewalks and some hills. Not favorable for me as 85 and hilly. It was a fun-ish experience.

Andrew: Okay.

Meaghan: I have a ton of respect for all of you triathletes. Unsure if I will dabble in that sport again.

Andrew: Alright. That’s fine. That’s fair to say. I was curious to your reaction. Thomas, how was your race?

Thomas: Okay, so I actually did a little better the first one I did. I think once I knew that I could finish one of these I was like, “Alright, I’ll get my own fitness from running.” But I will say that the Ironman Organization I am impressed with. We do a lot of races and their organization as far as putting on an event so seamless as we know how much goes into events and they do an amazing job.

Andrew: Yep.

Thomas: It was a really– I think that that was the biggest allure of it. So when Meaghan saw– her brother and I did the first one together and for me the swim is terrifying. You get in and the first time I used every stroke that I know and probably invented a couple. On my back, on the side. I was in panic. I don’t know– swimming in a pool and swimming 2000 meters or whatever and then getting out in the water and it not being laps and turning around and that kind of stuff, it’s a lot longer than you imagine and not being able to see anything. The first time was in the Eagleman so it was in the Chesapeake bay and it was pretty choppy. So when we went to Haines, Florida I was proud of my swim in the fact that I pretty much did the breast stroke the whole way. Breast stroke is the right one right? Am I saying the right one?

Andrew: So freestyle is kind of the standard triathlon stroke.

Meaghan: Freestyle.

Thomas: Okay. Then I did freestyle the whole way.

Andrew: Okay. Alright yeah. Good.

Thomas: See, I don’t even know what I’m doing.

Meaghan: The worst triathlete.

Thomas: This time I didn’t freak out and have to get on my back and do that. So I felt a lot better. The lake was a lot smoother and when you accidentally swallowed water it wasn’t salty and rightly so, that was better. I expected Meaghan just, because she excels at everything, so I knew that she was going to be getting out of the water in front of me. So I thought maybe I would see her by the bike transition but…

Andrew: Nope.

Thomas: …she was already gone.

Andrew: Gone.

Thomas: She was out.

Andrew: No very cool. And cool to have you guys have that experience before you hopped on the podcast and cool to hear your thoughts. I know a lot of triathletes will enjoy that and different sports or different folks. I mean, a lot of our listeners go back and forth between both. They’ll hit the marathon season in the winter time and hit the tri season in the spring and the fall and they’ll enjoy a little bit of everything.

Thomas: I will say that tri people don’t seem to care where they’re running. Like when you sign up for a running race usually you want some scenic-ness, you want point to point. So it is a new experience to do a triathlon where you’re basically running through people’s neighborhood and doing loops. I actually don’t mind the loops because you kind of know where you are in the– like when we did the Florida, Haines City, I was like “okay, I’m on my second lap. All I’ve got to do is finish up, cruise this out, and I’m done.” So that’s kind of a nice feeling.

Andrew: Before our triathletes listening just shake their heads completely at Thomas not even knowing swim strokes, let’s get to your sweet spot which is run shoes. You guys are absolutely qualified to talk run shoes. As I said earlier in the show I am just a huge fan of Believe in the Run. There are a few run gear review sources that I check out when I’m looking into my next shoe purchase and you guys are always my very first stop. You have very practical writeups, excellent video resources. You produce genuinely just helpful content that has led me to some good shoe decisions so kudos to your contributors. Your media team led by Robbe Reddinger and the two of y’all as well. When in your running journey did you get the idea for Believe in the Run and how did you get started reviewing run gear?

Thomas: Believe in the Run started in 2009 and it started when I was doing the Trans Rockies Run which is a six stage race across the Rockies and I wanted to raise money for the Baltimore Child Abuse Center. So I started a website to kind of talk about the training, talk about the gear I was running in and overwhelmingly people were more interested in what gear I was training in. I was putting up a lot of miles so I was switching out shoes and switching out gear and at the time there wasn’t a lot of people online talking about that stuff. I think back then I Run Far was around. I think DC Rainmaker was probably putting out some reviews, but other than that there wasn’t a lot of places to gather reviews from people other than like if the website had like a leave a comment section or something like that. So people got more interested. Brands started being aware of the site and I started getting sent samples and once I started getting samples then obviously it just made it easier to review more gear and to find out more information. A few years later, so Meaghan and I were working together and I didn’t have a steady woman reviewer and I said, “Hey if you want to reach out to some brands and grab some stuff for yourself we can review it and put it on the site.” And Meg was like a kid in a candy store.

Andrew: Of course. Especially by then you had become a full blown runner. So just to get to run in different shoes, yeah sure. Sign me up, right?

Meaghan: Exactly. Yep, I was all for it.

Andrew: No, that’s very cool and that’s part of what makes the channel so helpful is that some runners when they’re getting started trying to review stuff– and this is part of the problem. There’s not really a good triathlon gear review site out there. I mean, think about how expensive tri bikes are and tri aero helmets and there’s no way for one person to ride ten different aero bikes to give an objective review of this is the comparison and with running shoes you guys are able to do that and I’m able to know okay, I’m a fan of the Razor line and so if I’m ever reading one of your reviews and you’re comparing a shoe to that it’s like, “well maybe this is a shoe I should check out.” Because they’re saying it’s similar to this one. And so as a runner it really helps educate yourself when folks like you are able to get your hands on so many different things. So that’s very cool and it’s cool to see the site explode to where it has. So Believe in the Run has just this solid network of contributors and your team reviews, like we’ve said, a huge selection of running shoes and run related gear items every year. So just logistically, how does the review process work? Take us through your process just from receiving a new piece of gear to publishing the final review across your channels.

Thomas: Yeah, I mean it’s pretty simple. We get products in and we’re obviously in touch with the brand so we kind of have an idea of what’s coming out for the year and we know when the release dates are. So sometimes we get a product before the release date and we try it and we can’t talk about it or photograph it or video about it until the embargo is up which means that’s when you can go public with it. So from a piece coming in– so for example, we just got the Asics Nimbus line, so Nimbus Lite 3 and the Nimbus 24. They come in. We decide who is going to run in it depending on the shoe. So a lot of times with the contributors it’s going to be the trail stuff because we have a guy out in Colorado, Taylor, and we have other trail reviewers that we are pretty consistent with that are out there actually daily doing trail miles. On the road shoes we get enough miles in that we have a rule for us that we don’t review a shoe unless we put 20 miles in it which right now when we’re doing a project like Grit where we’re doing high milage– I’m doing 10 miles a day, I’ll run through shoes pretty quick.

Andrew: Yeah.

Thomas: You can really tell which ones you’d want to put back on and which ones you’re fine putting on the shelf and never talking about again.

Andrew: Yeah I bet. Yeah.

Thomas: Yeah, so we get them and I mean they basically come in, we decide who is going to get the shoes and then once we get them we get the miles in, we photograph them, do our video, put it out on Instagram, put it on YouTube, and then finally we write our review up for the site and we publish it on the site along with the videos and get those out. It gives a pretty well rounded picture of the shoe. You kind of get to know the personalities of the people reviewing the shoe and see if they match up. Like you said you like the Razor. You like the Razor so if I say “Hey.” Like you said if it’s a shoe that’s similar it’s going to be like, “Okay if you like the Razor you’d actually like the Lite 3. The Nimbus Lite 3 would be a great shoe for you to try.”

Andrew: Okay. Alright.

Thomas: It’s got a nice bouncy feel under foot. Upper fits great, and you’d be like, “Aww this is fun. I like this. This one I can tell right now–”

Andrew: Yeah good to know. I’m learning here. I’m really benefiting from this.

Thomas: Then Meaghan’s got a little bit of a wider foot so she’ll give that opinion as well as the shoes do in size change dynamics just from the size of the foot, how it’s going to respond, and then we’ve got a wide foot reviewer that does all our wide foot. Like, if the shoe comes in wide he gets a model and he actually is the most excited person about wide shoes ever that you’ll meet. We kind of tailor to the people that have– If you’re on trails, you’re getting the trail shoes. If you’re doing road and you have high milage, you’re getting these shoes. We pretty much save the gems. We kind of try to save for Meaghan and myself and then it trickles down if we have more samples, but race day shoes are probably our favorite to review.

Andrew: So you absolutely don’t have to name names here because I’m sure as professionals you wouldn’t, but in all the models of shoes that you’ve tested and in all the runs you’ve gone on do you guys have any stories of kind of shoe testing gone wrong? Where you just didn’t get along with a shoe or had something wild go down while you were testing a certain shoe?

Thomas: Yeah it happens all the time.

Meaghan: Yeah. You usually know by the first couple miles if it’s a shoe that you really, really don’t like, but I actually– A few years ago I got a new pair of shoes and I’m used to running in new shoes all the time and I have no problem putting on a fresh pair and going for a long run out of the box.

Thomas: I know which ones she’s talking about.

Meaghan: And without knowing what type of shoe this was, what it was intended for, it looked like a fine trainer to me so I put it on and went for a 20 mile run and my feet hurt so bad by miles 18 that I was like limping and barely made it home.

Andrew: You were like “Oh no!”

Meaghan: It turns out it was a walk to gym shoe.

Andrew: Okay.

Meaghan: It was not intended for long distances.

Thomas: But see that’s the thing. I think sometimes shoe companies change. So when we first got the Novablast from Asics they said it wasn’t a running shoe. They said it was a gym shoe.

Andrew: Okay. Interesting.

Thomas: And we were like, “I don’t know. This looks like a running shoe.” and when we got to see it and it became one of the most popular shoes of 2019-2020. Now the US Asics they market it as a running shoe and it’s a very popular one and in Asia they still market it as a gym shoe.

Andrew: Interesting.

Thomas: So it really depends. Like we just got a shoe from Hoka that I just thought was a letdown and I know Hoka sponsors a lot of triathlon things so maybe–

Andrew: They don’t sponsor us so you’re all good.

Thomas: Okay! But the shoe was so bad after my first run, we did a first impression video and they asked us, “Oh, could you send that back. It sounds like something’s wrong with the shoe.” They didn’t send us another pair, so I’m guessing that there’s nothing wrong with the shoe. Maybe they just didn’t want us to fully review it if our first impression was it was a POC.

Andrew: Yeah.

Thomas: But yeah, and we’ve had other shoes… It is tough because we do, we have relationships with the brand, but key to our kind of like DNA is our honesty so–

Andrew: Yeah.

Thomas: It’s hard when I’m talking to the product line manager from a brand and I’m telling him, “hey, this shoe is bad and we’re going to review it and it’s not going to be helpful.” In some points they’re making the shoes so far out– like they’re working on 2024 right now, 2023 is already probably pretty much designed out.

Andrew: Yeah.

Thomas: So maybe small tweaks of what reviewers say is put into the shoes. Like maybe they’ll switch up the rubber. Maybe they’ll remove– make a gusseted tongue instead of a regular style tongue. Maybe small tweaks, but for the most part the reviews help kind of let them know where the mood of the runners is going so that they can kind of maybe plan out like okay. That’s why we’re seeing so many high stack shoes coming out in 2022 is runners have decided I don’t want to feel ground feel when I’m running. I want a softer, cushier ride; now that the foams are lighter you can do that.

Andrew: So I know our athletes will be super excited to hear your take on just the super fun sexy topic of carbon plated running shoes. We alluded to this earlier. Nike just famously changed the game by putting out their carbon plate into the Vaporfly 4% and ever since then most big time brands have developed their own carbon plated trainers and racers. What exactly does a carbon plate do for a runner and who should consider spending the money for a pair of carbon plated shoes?

Thomas: Well a carbon plate is a lever. So carbon plates have actually been in shoes for a long, long time. It’s a combination of this lightweight foam with its high resiliency and bounce with the lever that makes the big difference. What I find interesting and I would say just before we get started in this, what your needs for a tri shoe for running is different than I think what a normal running racer needs.

Andrew: Okay.

Thomas: Just coming out of the hard– like my cycling shoes have a carbon bottom to them and it’s really stiff and we were only doing a half. So we’re doing 56 miles in the biking shoe. Anything you put on after that feels extremely soft. I was like, “Wow!” I could run in a hard shoe and it felt just delightful after getting out of–

Andrew: Yeah, that’s interesting.

Thomas: –the riding shoes. But when you get into– I did notice a lot of, especially since I was one of them, people not running too fast in the triathlon.

Andrew: We call it the IRONMAN Shuffle. The IRONMAN Shuffle.

Thomas: You definitely don’t need a plated shoe for the shuffle. If you want, I noticed that Ironman tend to like the gadgets, the gear, and there is a status with everything. I’m sure my goggles, my $14 goggles were stupid. I had the basic entry Xterra wetsuit. You know, I just tried to find–

Andrew: Yeah sure.

Thomas: –just the cheapest thing I could. But I did notice a lot of people had– I would just look at their setup when they were putting their bikes in the rack and I’m like, “That’s right there 50-60 grand of equipment.”

Andrew: Yep. Absolutely.

Thomas: So to them buying a pair of Alphaflys is probably not a tremendous burden and a lot of people see, “Okay well that’s a fast shoe.” But I don’t necessarily think it’s probably the best shoe for a triathlon.

Meaghan: I would actually play a little bit of the Devil’s Advocate here because–

Andrew: Well, you ran the whole run split. So–

Meaghan: But I do think it benefits the carbon plate. So the whole point like Thomas says is it’s a lever and so it’s just making you more efficient and that’s going to help anyone who is running whether you’re doing a 10 minute pace or a 6 minute pace. You’re going to get that energy return when you’re running. If you’re walking the whole race, probably not worth it to get that carbon plate. I would just go with a nice comfortable– like I said earlier the New Balance More 3 or like a Hoka Clifton. Something with cushion that you can walk in.

Thomas: Or even the Novablast.

Meaghan: Or the Novablast where you’re not like really pushing your pace and would need that energy return from a carbon plate.

Thomas: But see you have to put so much load into the carbon plate that if you’re not up on your toes and running hard, you’re not getting a benefit from the carbon plate.

Andrew: Interesting. Yeah that makes sense.

Thomas: You are getting a benefit from the higher cushion shoes is that cushioning which– and this is why I would say the difference between marathon and triathlon and possibly if you’re doing a full Ironman that the cushioning in a shoe like the Vaporfly, the Alphafly, the New Balance RC Elite and even the Metaspeed Sky which obviously has become popular since the Olympics. Those shoes have really good cushioning so they’re easier on your legs. So if you’re going the long distance, you’re going to recover better, you’re going to feel better, but you’re really not getting the most out of the shoe if you’re not trying to run a little bit hard. I think you would get the same benefit out of a shoe like the Clifton, the Novablast, the Hoka Rincon. Those shoes would be great for 90% of runners I saw out on the course. A Rincon would be a great half Ironman shoe.

Andrew: Yeah. I used my Sketcher’s Razor 3 for half Ironman for a long time and honestly I never made a jump to the Nike Vaporfly until they put out the Next% in aqua and orange. I’m a big Miami Dolphin fan growing up in Central Florida–

Thomas: There you go.

Andrew: –and so when that color scheme came out I was like, “Fine! I’ll freakin’ try it!” And I remember putting that Next% on in my house and walking around and just thinking, “Oh, good Lord! This shoe is insane.” And I ran in it for the first time and now that’s my race day shoe, but I’m running the whole time. You know, ran/walked at Ironman. That’s just a long race. So it sounds like for a triathlete if you know you’re going to do a decent portion of running in those long distance races, if you’re going short course and you’re running the whole time, that’s when the carbon plate is really going to help you out. If you know you’re going to walk– If you just want that shoe because you’ve got the money and everybody’s wearing it, go ahead. By all means, but you could get away with just any cushioned non-carbon plated shoe for your Ironman Shuffle.

Thomas: I’m not just saying it wouldn’t just get away; it might even be more comfortable.

Andrew: Okay. Interesting.

Thomas: Like, it might make for a better experience just because you know from running in the Next% it’s not the most stable shoe. So when you’re going at slower speeds, it’s not going to be– If you’re trying to walk in it you’re going to be like up on heels.

Andrew: It’s like you’re up on stilts. Yeah.

Thomas: Yeah and so you might actually have a better experience running in a lightweight, well cushioned shoe like the Rincon or the Novablast or something like that where it doesn’t mind– and when I did my first triathlon I wore the New Balance RC Elite 2 just because I was like while it can go fast, it’s the range for it of being able to walk in it comfortably or jog at a slower speed, this shoe still works well where I feel like some of the super shoes don’t really want to be walked in or shuffled.

Andrew: So for the folks that are interested in the carbon plated racers, they know they’re going to run, they know they’re going to benefit from it, the Vaporfly obviously was the OG; it was the original, and now everybody’s put out their version. The Vaporfly is now on the– they’ve gone from the Vaporfly 4% to Next% to the Alphabouncefly. There’s so many words in it now I’ve lost track of what model we’re on with the Alphaflys and bounces and etcetera. But with all the different options that are out there now, is Nike still kind of the King of that space or is it just whichever carbon plated racer fits your foot the best, go for it and they’re all kind of equal at this point? What are your thoughts there?

Thomas: They’re not all equal, but there are several brands that have equivalent shoes to Nike now.

Meaghan: Yeah, I think it really comes down to personal preference at this point. I think if you like a firmer ride there’s a carbon plated shoe for you. If you like a softer ride there’s a carbon plated shoe for you and those are–

Thomas: Wider foot.

Meaghan: –across all the brands. I personally still go to the Nike Alphafly.

Andrew: Yep, and that’s all three of us. I’m still in the Next%, but it’s still in the same family.

Thomas: The Alphafly is definitely, it’s in its own class but underneath Alphafly there’s the Metaspeed Sky, there’s the New Balance RC Elite 2, the Saucony Endorphin Pro which the Pro 3 is coming out. Another shoe that would be amazing that has a plate, but it’s not a carbon plate for all the way to a full Ironman would probably be the Endorphin Speed which is a really nice shoe for a range of paces. But yeah, there’s pretty much– there’s only a few brands that haven’t quite figured out the plated racer, but there’s definitely– Can you think of another one that I’m missing?

Meaghan: Well, now Puma has the FastR.

Thomas: Which we haven’t– Well, you’ve run in it.

Meaghan: I’ve run in it.

Thomas: I haven’t run in it.

Meaghan: It’s a good shoe. Yeah you mentioned Saucony, New Balance.

Andrew: I know Sketcher’s, as a Sketcher’s fan, I’ll be the one to say I don’t believe Sketcher’s has truly figured out how to put together a magical carbon plated shoe. They’ve got one and their reviews are that it seems okay, but it’s not like everybody else's.

Thomas: They Hyper Burst foam that’s in Sketcher’s is what they use and it works great in the Razor which you have a lightweight, non-plated shoe, but even the Hyper Burst runs a little bit on the firmer side of the soft squishy foams and so when you add a plate to it it takes away any of the bounce that you feel in the Hyper Burst and just makes it feel like a pretty harsh shoe under foot. So so far in my experience with the Sketcher’s plated shoe, it just doesn’t, the combo doesn’t work as well as some of the other foams.

Andrew: Gotcha. So if your foot gets along with the latest– is it the Alphabounce or the Alphafly?

Thomas/Meaghan: Alphafly.

Andrew: Okay. Thank you. The latest Alphafly, if your foot gets along with that, that one is still elite, but beyond that you can look at several. You can go to believeintherun.com and look at the reviews for Saucony’s version, New Balance’s latest carbon plated shoe.

Thomas: Asics.

Andrew: Asics’ carbon plated shoe, and you can just see which one might fit your preferences from what it sounds like.

Thomas: And even the pros. There’s a lot of pros that you’ll see; people like Eliud Kipchoge won the Olympics and he went with the Vaporfly instead of the Alphafly. So depending on the course or what you want to do, and we talked to some pros on our podcast that we were like, “Hey, why do you chose one shoe over the other?” and it seems to me like when you’re being– If you just want to cruise and get into a really nice pace, the Alphafly is the shoe. If you want to race tactically by making moves and staying on someone’s shoulder and then deciding when you want to take off and that kind of stuff, it seems like the Next% has a little more agility to it.

Andrew: Interesting.

Thomas: So that’s what we see. Yeah. So it really comes down to the style of running you’re going to do. The Alphafly has been amazing for Meaghan. Meaghan goes out there and is trying to hit a pace and just hold that pace. She’s not trying to get on the back of Shalane and you know–

Andrew: You’re not? So carbon plates and copious amounts of cushion aren’t the only things that brands are doing right now to make their shoes special. What are their next trends in running shoes? I know you guys mentioned that you are kind of in contact with the brands and you know kind of what’s coming down the pipeline. Without giving away anything you can’t give away, what are brands doing right now that we should be paying attention to?

Meaghan: A lot is not changing I would say in the next two years. Like we mentioned earlier, we actually went to the Running Event a few months ago which is where you sort of get a preview of what’s to come in 2022 and 2023 and everyone is increasing the stack height.

Thomas: Yeah.

Meaghan: So the legal racing stack height is 40mm, but for your everyday running shoe, obviously that doesn’t apply. So we’re seeing shoes that have 50mm of foam underneath them and across all the brands.

Thomas: Yeah.

Meaghan: And these are intended for like the long runs, for recovery, and for that type of running.

Thomas: Well, it also– Meaghan was saying there’s not a trend. There is a little trend that we’re seeing there and it’s this fine tuning of they know from testing these shoes what really works and so if you want the most efficient, the bounce, and the faster run, they’re putting it into these higher stack shoes. Now the problem is there’s a stability issue when you get up high.

Andrew: Yeah.

Thomas: I was just trying the Adidas PrimeX and it was like, I almost twisted my ankle like five times during an 8 mile run.

Andrew: Yeah.

Thomas: And so figuring that out, but the trend is going to be maybe tailoring the shoes more towards– right now everybody goes “Okay I need a Next% style shoe.” So everybody’s like running to that and they’re realizing okay, well yeah at this pace if you’re running 7 minutes and below, yeah that shoe makes sense for you. Okay, say that you’re a little bit older and maybe you’re running in the mid 3’s for a marathon or whatever. Maybe a little more high stack, a little more cushion, it’s okay for you to be illegal because you’re not going for podium.

Andrew: Yeah.

Thomas: You know, it’s not– nobody’s going to pull you over and say, “Your marathon time doesn’t count because you wore a 50mm shoe versus a 40mm shoe.” And it is legal for amateurs to run in those, but the fine tuning now of the technology that we’re seeing, better fitting uppers, you’re going to see– Really one of the most exciting ones we saw was the racing shoe and then the training comp shoe from New Balance where they’re doing things with the plate and the stack height that are going to be adjustable so it’s even going to be more like we were talking about the Alphafly versus the Next% to kind of figure out how you’re racing. It’s going to be like, okay. What’s better for you for recovery and getting through the race and your legs feeling as good as they can from the start line to the finish line? You’re going to have nuances to dial and say okay, this is the shoe for me that will get me to the finish line feeling my best, getting my best time.

Andrew: No, very interesting. Just talking about stack height there for a minute knowing that there’s going to be shoes coming out for training for racing that have that stack height, that stack heights are going up and up. For just your day-to-day training do you guys think there’s benefit in folks investing in some higher stack height shoes or is that for a specific type of runner? Is that something that we’re starting to get so high that it’s not practical for most people? Just knowing those shoes are coming, what would you say to our audience about those?

Meaghan: Not having worn any of the shoes–

Thomas: You’re talking to the woman who loves the high stack.

Meaghan: –over 40mm, I still think I’m going to love them and I’m going to wear them, but I can’t say I would recommend them for everyone without actually having tested them yet.

Andrew: Fair.

Meaghan: I will say, I currently wear my Alphafly for long, hard training runs because of the recovery benefit. Because of that high stack and how I feel the next day of running is so much better than if I have a lower stack shoe with a plate. It just beats up your legs a little bit more. So I think specifically for that recovery standpoint these high stack shoes are going to be beneficial.

Thomas: And I would somewhat agree with Meaghan. I actually enjoy some of the lower stack shoes. Like the Rebel V2 from New Balance is a super fun shoe to run in. It’s really lightweight. It has enough cushioning under foot, but it’s not super high stack, but when it comes to when my legs are beat up and I’m tired and I know I’m going to be running a little slower paces than my normal training paces, that more V4 from New Balance which is just like a Hoka Clifton on just a little softer and a little bit–

Andrew: Okay.

Thomas: –I don’t know. I just like the way it feels under foot. That one if I’m tired, you put that on and like Meaghan said for recovery the next day your legs feel a little bit better, everything feels– you’re less achy. So the high stacks really help with mitigating some of the trauma to your muscles and bones in my opinion.

Andrew: Okay. So maybe they don’t turnover quite as fast for the speed work days, but when you go into a workout knowing you need to be a little kinder to your joints, to your feet, you can reach for those stack shoes. Thomas I have a similar approach with obviously the Razor line is what I use for all my speed work, my track sessions when I feel good, when I have a lot of intervals in the workout and then I reach for the New Balance Fuelcell TC for those days–

Thomas: Well, the TC– get excited because this year towards fall you’re getting an update to that shoe that looks phenomenal. Phenomenal!

Andrew: Aww. Okay.

Thomas: And it’s going to be lighter. It’s going to be high stacked like the TC is, but they split it down the middle so it kind of has– when you land it’s going to splay out a little bit to give you that stability and it has a plate in it and I think you’re going to dig it.

Andrew: No awesome! Nope. Excited about that.

Thomas: It’s one of our most anticipated shoes.

Andrew: Yeah. I’ve really enjoyed that shoe for especially Ironman training. Those days where I know I have a two hour session, hour and a half session, 2:15, 2:30, that’s the shoe I reach for just because of Meaghan, Thomas what you’re talking about. It’s just a little kinder to my body when I wake up the next morning having that cushion in there. Part of the challenge I think for the average run shoe consumer, just in selecting their running shoes, is you can’t really feasibly test a bunch to pick the winner. Typically once you put some miles in that shoe now belongs to you, right? It’s been on concrete so it can be expensive right? Just to try multiple models and to find the one that works the best and in some instances trying a shoe on inside your house and just walking back and forth, “Oh this feels great.” and then running in that shoe can give two very different sensations. So what wisdom do you have for listeners just in finding the best shoe for us as efficiently as possible without just ordering 20 running shoes?

Meaghan: I think if there’s a shoe that you like and you kind of touched on this earlier, but if there’s a shoe that you like then it’s sort of easy to find something similar by either watching reviews or reading reviews or doing some just Googling online of similar trainers. I also think it’s really beneficial if you do find a review site and you know what the personal preference of the person talking is and you can relate to them whether it’s like yes, if they like that shoe I know I’m going to like it or if they like that shoe I know I’m not going to like it.

Andrew: Okay.

Meaghan: That’s always really helpful. I will say Running Warehouse will now– and I know it’s not perfect. Like you can’t go out and do 20 miles and then return a shoe, but you can try them on in your house and they have free returns–

Thomas: They have free shipping.

Meaghan: –and free shipping so you can kind of test out a little bit in your house. So I think those would probably be my initial avenues.

Thomas: Yeah. What I would say with what Meaghan touched on is kind of finding a personality in the running review space that matches your preferences and you kind of– I find that the people that follow us start to get a shorthand; like they know right away. Like if we get a shoe, they see our first impression or they watch our YouTube or they see what we’re riding on Instagram or they– wherever they’re going to interact, read the review. They can tell really quickly how excited we are about a shoe and how if there’s a shoe that works for me with a narrow foot being 6 feet, 170 pounds and there’s a shoe that Meaghan’s excited about being– what are you? 5 nothing?

Meaghan: 5-4.

Thomas: 5-4. I won’t tell you her weight, but it’s a lot less than mine and she has wider feet and if we’re both like, “This shoe is the jam.” That shoe is the jam.

Andrew: Yeah.

Thomas: If we go 50/50 then you’ve got to be like, “Well, do I fall more into Thomas’ bucket or Meaghan’s bucket?” And it’s the same thing with all our reviewers and it comes down to we stick with a pretty steady crew so you kind of– It’s not like– I’ve always found that runners were ones that were a little tough because they’ll just give out shoes to their audience and so it’s a person that you don’t know any background on like how many miles they run a day. How many this. Do they run marathons? Do they not run marathons? And they give them a pair of shoes and you get their feedback and they’re like, “It feels good.” And you’re like, “What does that even mean?” So it really is I think important to take that time. Kind of if you want to have a good experience in a running shoe and that’s what we’re all about is trying to provide the best experience with the equipment as possible. Like if I was reviewing tri bikes I’d be like, “I want you to have the best ride possible.”

Andrew: Yeah.

Thomas: Here’s the lightest bike. Here’s the one that’s going to put the geometry that’s right for you and you’re going to feel great hopping off that bike going into the run. That’s what we’re doing with running shoes. We are trying to give you– we want people to continue to run so we want to give you advice and help to guide you into the right shoe that makes you enjoy running more.

Andrew: Yeah and I for the record have 110% done exactly what Meaghan’s talking about where it’s, okay. From watching the reviews, from knowing who I run like, from knowing the shoes you guys are recommending, here’s my short list. My next shoe purchase needs to be a speed work day shoe. Here’s my short list of four or five shoes. I’ll go to RunningWarehouse.com. This is not a sponsored show by Running Warehouse for the record. They just make it so easy. So I grew up as a tennis player and so I shopped at their sister site, TennisWarehouse.com, and that’s where I got all my tennis apparel and rackets and stuff from. So it was easy for me to just gravitate to RunningWarehouse.com. But they send the return label with your package and so on the credit card I’ll throw five running shoes on there. You know, I'll get them, I’ll walk around the house with them, and then kind of select the one or two I’m going to keep and then you already have the box and the return label to send the rest back. So they make it super simple. I’m glad to know that what I’ve been doing all this time is approved by you guys, the experts.

Thomas: One thing I would add to that, when you’re trying on shoes if you feel like it needs to break in or you need to do that, there’s enough shoes that are out there that are great that don’t need a break in period–

Andrew: Okay, interesting.

Thomas: Like a lot of times people are like, “Oh, you’ve got to let it break in.” I’m like, “I don’t want to break a shoe in.” I want it to feel good when I step out the door. I don’t want to have to wait 30-40 miles…

Andrew: Yeah, sure.

Thomas: …for the shoe to start to feel good. Like, give me a shoe that feels good out of the box and I’ll run it into the ground.

Andrew: Life’s too short, Thomas, to run in shoes that need to be broken in.

Thomas: Yeah, exactly.

Andrew: We’ve talked on the podcast before with our listeners just about having a healthy shoe rotation. There’s different shoes for different types of runs. So budget concerns aside, how many shoes would you say the average runner should have in their rotation?

Thomas: Three to four.

Meaghan: Yeah. I would say three to four. I think you need your recovery day shoe, your daily trainer, your speed day shoe, and then your race day shoe.

Thomas: And we have to put a caveat there. He’s saying money is not an issue and also how much you’re running.

Meaghan: Yeah.

Thomas: We are running consistently 50 to 70 miles a week so it’s a little bit different than if you were running say 30 miles, maybe two pairs of shoes. Your daily trainer and a race day or speed day shoe. There’s certain shoes right now– like we just finished up a review of the Adidas Adios 6 and that shoe could pretty much cover daily training to race day for someone and it’s $120. So if you just wanted a shoe that could carry you all the way through, that’s definitely one of them. I’d say the Rebel V2 is another one and possibly the Novablast. I’m trying to think of a different brand. Like, would Saucony? Like what?

Meaghan: Endorphin Speed.

Thomas: Endorphin Speed. Yeah. That would be a good one.

Andrew: Yeah.

Thomas: You can find a shoe that can do it all if you are in that budget. But, yeah. If you’re not on a budget– Switching up shoes, if you look down at your shoes in the morning and you send yourself that visual cue of today is speed day. Putting on my fast shoes. Like when you put on your Razors you know it’s time to work.

Andrew: It’s time to go. It’s time to get at it.

Thomas: It’s like a uniform. Exactly. I do believe in the placebo effect. You slap on a pair of Vaporflys and you think you’re going to go 4% faster, you are going 4% faster.

Andrew: Yeah. I even have socks that I save for speed day because those are bright colored ones. They have fun patterns and it’s like, “This is speed day sock.” This is time to burn it to the ground.

Thomas: Exactly.

Andrew: Total placebo there as well. So I personally usually keep three. I’ve got my race day shoe. I’ve got my speed day shoe. I mean as triathletes we’re obviously balancing three different sports so a typical TriDot training plan at regular volume for the average triathlete is two swims a week, three to four–

Thomas: Wait. You guys have training plans?

Andrew: We do.

Thomas: We don’t have a training plan.

Andrew: You guys for starting a $9.99 a month you could have been training with TriDot for 70.3 Florida.

Thomas: We didn’t have any plan.

Andrew: Well, if there’s a next time just hit me up and we’ll hook you up with some optimized smarter training. So if a particular shoe is working for an athlete, you know they are completely happy with it. Maybe they even return to it year after year, model after model. You know, longtime workhorse models like the Pegasus or the Brooks Ghost that a lot of people might already be in love with come to mind. Is it wiser just to stick with what’s working or would you encourage folks to maybe dabble in what’s new and exciting on the market?

Meaghan: I think you’ve got to dabble in what’s new and exciting.

Andrew: Okay.

Meaghan: Because everyone’s constantly innovating in this space and the shoes are getting lighter, they’re getting better, and why not?

Thomas: I can give you an example. The Kinvara…

Meaghan: Yeah.

Thomas: …was one of my all-time favorite shoes. That’s where my current marathon PR is and now I don’t even like running in the Kinvara just because– It filled a void in the technology and other shoes came along and they messed with it and even though it’s like a continuous line of shoes, sometimes when they play with the shoe it just isn’t the same…

Andrew: Yeah, absolutely.

Thomas: …and then the next year it comes back and it’s back again and so there can be fluctuation in a shoe line, but also like if I had stuck with the Kinvara and never tried the Hoka Clifton I’d never know what that really nice soft cushion lightweight feel is. Then the next thing that comes along and if I stay with the Clifton and I never try the More V4 which I think is superior Clifton from New Balance. But you have to– You can get a better experience if you dabble than if you just open the same box every time in a new color way.

Andrew: No that makes sense and even the shoes that I mention in this example and you mentioning the Kinvara, I would imagine if you were running in those shoes, there are now even versions or new models from those same brands. I mean, if you’re a Saucony Kinvara fan I would imagine by now you’d be running in a Speed–

Thomas: Endorphin Speed.

Andrew: –in one of the Endorphin lines right? Like there’s almost no reason to be in a Kinvara at this point because the newer models have just surpassed what the Kinvara could do for you. So that makes sense. So I encourage folks if you’ve been stuck in the same shoe for a while, again, head to Believe in the Run and read what they’re saying about the latest and greatest.

Thomas: And would you want to eat the same meal every day? You know it’s like, let’s switch it up. Let’s get Mexican. Let’s get Chinese. Let’s do something different.

Andrew: So you both get to try out just so many different brands and models just month to month, year to year. I think it’s worth noting which shoes you personally reach for when you have a key training session or towing the line for race day. What are your current go-to favorite shoes right now?

Meaghan: Speed day and race day for me, I already mentioned this, is the Nike Alphafly. So I’m always picking those out. If I have some hard workouts or if I’m towing the line and then easy running days I have been, I also mentioned this shoe earlier, going towards the New Balance More V3…

Andrew: Okay.

Meaghan: …and also the Asics Novablast 2. Right 2?

Thomas: Yeah, it’s the Novablast 2 right now. I would agree with Meaghan on the Alphafly. It’s just a spectacularly fun shoe to run in. It just has– It takes a little while to get used to. Like your first run, the first run I ran in it I was like, “I’m not sure about these.” Then when you start getting used to the sensation of running because it does change the way you run a little bit. There’s a lot of bounce in it and it just kind of like it really rewards that toe off.

Andrew: Okay.

Thomas: So it takes a little time to get used to, but if you do it and it works for you it is a phenomenally fun shoe to run in and for some reason or another I can hit cruise control on that shoe. Like if I get to the pace I want to be at I can just kind of lock it in and roll. Daily trainer, Meaghan, our top shoe of the year on our Best Of 2021 shoes was the Novablast and I do think that’s just a no brainer shoe. When anybody comes to me and says, “Hey I’m starting running. I need a shoe. I need a daily trainer.” 99% of the people we recommend that shoe for just love it.

Andrew: It works. Okay.

Thomas: Yeah. So that’d be that, but also runner up for that was the Rebel V2 which I really enjoy, but the problem with that one I find is because it is lighter weight and feels so fun and fast under foot, if it’s a day where I’m supposed to just be doing easy runs, I end up doing a tempo run just because it’s on. But yeah. There’s plenty. I think– and if you’re loyal to different brands, like say you want to support Hoka for being the sponsor for Ironman, I really love the Rincon 3. The 2 I thought was okay. I think the 1 was better than the 2 actually and then 3 I really like what they did–

Andrew: Okay.

Thomas: –kind of fixing it. They made it light again. It’s real nice. They have a Mach 4 which is also a really solid daily trainer that you can use. They don’t– I don’t really like any of their plated shoes yet. The Rocket. Actually, I do really like the CarbonX and we just finished reviewing– or we’re going to be reviewing the CarbonX 3. So I’ve been running in that one recently and that’s a fun shoe. It’s plated, but it’s not what I would call a race day shoe necessarily.

Andrew: Okay.

Thomas: It’s kind of like you could use it for a daily trainer. It’s a plated daily trainer in my opinion. But that one would actually be excellent for the Ironman when we’re talking about you want that plate benefit. You want that soft foam benefit.

Andrew: Yeah.

Thomas: I think it would be a really good choice. It works at any speed. So if you’re doing the shuffle it works, if you’re not. So that actually for the tri crowd I would say check out that CarbonX V2 or V3.

Cool down theme: Great set everyone! Let’s cool down.

Andrew: As a podcast I love connecting with and supporting other podcasters. I mentioned at the top of the shoe that Thomas and Meaghan have not one, but two outstanding podcasts that they produce and host. If you are listening to this you’ve likely made the TriDot podcast part of your weekly podcast consuming routine. We take up an hour of your time which I know gives you plenty of other training hours to check out The Drop or Fuel for the Sole. So guys just last night I was listening to episode 43 of The Drop where you interviewed world class trail runner Jim Walmsley. If you are into the trail scene at all that would be like us having Jon Frodeno on the show. Great conversation and really cool to hear Jim talk about the famous Western States 100. It was really cool to hear him kind of as he was talking about just what he goes through in a 100 mile long trail race. It sounded a little bit reminiscent of Ironman just of them talking about there’s times when it goes by quickly. There’s times it goes by slowly. There’s times when you’re in agony. There’s times when you’re high on the endorphins and really great interview with him. So Thomas, Meaghan, just as we cool down from our shoe talk episode today, give us a little bit of info about your shows and maybe we’ll close down today with a little clip from your podcast, The Drop.

Meaghan: Yeah, so The Drop is our weekly podcast where Robbe, Thomas, and I chat a little bit in the beginning about our own running and what we’re doing. What we’re testing shoe wise and gear wise. Then at the end of that we’ll interview someone in the industry whether that’s an athlete or a shoe designer or someone who just happens to be a runner and also has another job; just an interesting character. Then Fuel for the Sole is a podcast we do with Meghann Featherstun of Featherstone Nutrition. She’s a sports dietitian and there we actually answer listener questions.

Andrew: Okay, cool.

Meaghan: So you go right in or you can send us an audio file and yeah. We answer any of your hydration and nutrition questions to help performance.

Andrew: Alright. So here is a very fun little clip from their podcast, The Drop. This is from episode 68 and it actually where Meaghan is telling their listeners on The Drop a little bit about her race at 70.3 in Haines City, Florida.

Thomas: So continue with– you hadn’t clipped in, your wetsuit still had– you almost swam with the repair kit attached to the wetsuit.

Meaghan: Yeah I like put it on and was about to hop into the pool and Thomas was like, “You still have a tag and thing back here.” And I was like, “What’s that?”

Thomas: Like the little rubber cement and the patch kit.

Robbe: Oh that comes with the wetsuit?

Meaghan: Yeah. It’s like a tag.

Thomas: Yeah she was getting in the water with it.

Meaghan: Umm so yeah. I never did an open water swim, never used a bike, but I felt like I had endurance and fitness from marathon training and I do have an indoor bike that I ride for like 30 minutes.

Thomas: And you ride hard. Like you sweat.

Meaghan: Yeah. So again, I’m going back to fitness, endurance. I felt like I had a base of that. It was the logistics that were more scary.

Andrew: Well that’s it for today folks. I want to thank Thomas and Meaghan for dropping by and helping us select our next pair of running shoes. Be sure to follow Believe in the Run on YouTube and social media and check out their podcasts as well. Shoutout to Precision Fuel and Hydration for partnering with us on today’s episode. Head to precisionfuelandhydration.com and use promo code TRIDOT10 for 10% off your order. Enjoying the podcast? Have any triathlon questions or topics you want to hear us talk about? Head to TriDot.com/podcast to let us know what you’re thinking. We’ll have a new show coming your way soon. Until then, Happy Training!

Outro: Thanks for joining us. Make sure to subscribe and share the TriDot podcast with your triathlon crew. For more great tri content and community, connect with us on Facebook, YouTube, and Instagram. Ready to optimize your training? Head to TriDot.com and start your free trial today! TriDot – the obvious and automatic choice for triathlon training.

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