Intro: This is the TriDot podcast. TriDot uses your training data and genetic profile, combined with predictive analytics and artificial intelligence to optimize your training, giving you better results in less time with fewer injuries. Our podcast is here to educate, inspire, and entertain. We’ll talk all things triathlon with expert coaches and special guests. Join the conversation and let’s improve together.

Andrew Harley: Hey folks! Welcome to the show. We’ve got a super dope podcast conversation on tap for today. Every athlete can have a rewarding triathlon experience with or without a coach, but for those that can swing it adding a coach can certainly enhance your tri experience in a good number of ways and today we’ll talk with a few seasoned coaches about everything an athlete should consider when or if considering adding a coach to their situation. Joining us for this conversation is TriDot Coach Jeff Raines. Jeff is a USAT Level II and Ironman U certified coach who has a Masters of Science in exercise physiology and was a D1 collegiate runner.  He has over 45 Ironman event finishes to his credit, and has coached hundreds of athletes to the Ironman finish line. Jeff, thanks for lending your coaching expertise to us today.

Jeff Raines: You bet Andrew. I love what I do and who I do it with. That includes you guys, all the TriDot staff, TriDot coaches, all my coached athletes, and my fellow TriDot teammates and of course all the listeners as well.

Andrew: Next up is Coach John Mayfield. John is a USAT Level II and Ironman U certified coach who leads TriDot’s athlete services, ambassador, and coaching programs. He has coached hundreds of athletes ranging from first-timers to Kona qualifiers and professional triathletes. John has been using TriDot since 2010 and coaching with TriDot since 2012. Now John, you are TriDot’s director of coaching and I know you are just very passionate about setting both athletes and coaches up to succeed with TriDot. So are you excited about this conversation today?

John Mayfield: Yeah I am. Oftentimes I feel like I’m headed into a podcast thinking I know this topic, I’m going to give some good answers, but I think this one is definitely set up. So yeah, excited for this one. It’s great when you go into a test and you know the answers, you’ve done your research, you’ve done your homework. So that’s kind of how I feel today. It’s going to be a good one.

Andrew: Well I’m Andrew the Average Triathlete, Voice of the People and Captain of the Middle of the Pack. As always we'll approach the show like any other workout. We’ll roll through our warm up question, settle in for our main set conversation, and then wind things down with the cool down. Lots of good stuff, let's get to it!

Warm up theme: Time to warm up! Let’s get moving.

Andrew: Warming up today with a coach-focused warm up question. Over time coaches say a lot of stuff to their athletes downloading training and racing wisdom that they hope will be fully absorbed by their athletes. Gentleman, from all of the sports coaching you have received over your athletic journeys, what was a moment where a coach’s words made a big difference on game day or on race day? John, we’ll start with you.

John: One of the coolest things I’ve done was be part of my son’s little league football team. We had an amazing group of kids that we started off with these kids when they were playing flag and went all the way up through sixth grade which is their last year to play in this little league; seventh grade they start playing for the school. So I had this group of kids and pretty much every year we made it to the Super Bowl. We had this great staff of coaches that we worked with and got to work together for a number of years. So one year we actually got to play the Super Bowl in Rice Stadium at Rice University.

Andrew: Oh cool.

John: We ended up playing the same team every year and every year they absolutely destroyed us. It was kind of like– It was just a given that this one team was going to win the Super Bowl every year so it was kind of like everybody played for second and that’s where we were. But there was a super cool moment as we were headed into this Super Bowl Game in Rice Stadium where one of the coaches was talking about the very famous JFK speech that was given in Rice Stadium. It was his “Go to the Moon” speech and it was basically talking about why do these hard things and he talks about we choose to do these things not because they’re easy, but because they’re hard. One of the questions he asked to demonstrate about doing hard things is “why does Rice play Texas?” And the Rice football team has an abysmal record against the University of Texas, but every year they continue to play. So it’s kind of this David and Goliath kind of thing and why do we do these things? We choose to go to the moon in this decade and we do the other things not because they’re easy, but because they’re hard. So the coach is talking about this to these kids before the game and of course this is totally going over their heads, but I’m like super jazzed. I was like this is the coolest thing ever. So anyway. We went on to lose in a major way, but the speech before the game was definitely a winner. So yeah, that was a super cool moment to be there with those boys in Rice Stadium and get to talk about that really famous, really cool speech.

Andrew: One, I bet that stadium looked massive to those sixth graders playing in that game. They probably felt like they were in just a world class stadium for the size they are and the fields they were used to playing in. And two, it’s amazing to me that he’s pouring out his heart in this speech that is mostly lost on a sixth grade attention span, but for you, Coach John Mayfield, you were just absorbing every single word.

John: I was jazzed. I was ready to go. I was like, “Put me in coach!”

Andrew: Coach Jeff Raines, what is your answer to this one?

Jeff: I’m going to take a slightly different approach. I grew up with a triplet brother and him and I were always on the same teams and we had tons of coaches; from taekwondo, to football, baseball, basketball, all those things. We’ve had tons of great coaches and the ones that coach character and the life lessons are the ones that really stick out. But the approach I’m going to take is my dad actually. He coached a lot of my brother and I’s teams over the years and he was very old school. I mean, he still is. He’s just that kind that “Awe you’re not hurt. Rub some dirt on it. Let’s go.” Maybe it’s because we were his sons on the team and so maybe he was a little bit harder on us. He’s just that kind, “When the going gets tough, the tough gets going.” He even now is kind of like, “Oh those IRONMANs, you don’t need all them gels and all those special formulas and all that. Just eat a Hershey’s bar and some orange slices. That’s what we had at halftime of our football games growing up. You’ll be fine.” You know, he’s just that kind. But growing up he, especially in middle school and high school, the night before a track meet my brother, my sister, and I– we all three, the triplets– were all track athletes and we were also big deer hunters in our family. We even have venison, a lot. Growing up my dad the night before a huge meet, a huge race, we would have chicken fried venison, mashed potatoes. You know, your super old school comfort food and my dad would always say “Nothing runs like a deer.” So if you eat that food you’re going to run amazing the next day. Nowadays we know that that’s probably not the best meal to eat the night before an Ironman, but just his little nuances, his old school attitude and his humor. That’s kind of what sticks with me now as I’m an adult coaching myself.

John: I think John Deere tractors say that, “Nothing runs like a Deere.”

Jeff: And you know what, even if all this it’s a placebo. You know, hey whatever makes you faster on race day. I ate up.

Andrew: Ate it up literally and figuratively. This one for me, I remember when I was playing tennis and I’m on court. It was a school where I knew the kid I was going to be playing against. I had played him multiple times before. I had always beaten him fairly comfortably and for whatever reason on this one particular day I was just not in a rhythm. My forehand just was not working. It was just off. I was just fighting and this kid was just pushing me far harder than I thought I should be pushed by him. In the end, I was able to pull out the win, but I walked off the court and I was frustrated and my coach was like, “Hey good win.” And I’m like, “Oh man, that match was horrible.” He said, “Why was that match horrible?” I was like, “Well it was horrible. I didn’t play well, I didn’t–” He was like, “You won didn’t you?” And I was like, “Yeah, but I didn’t play like nearly as well as I could have. Like, I’ve beaten this kid way easier before.” And he was like, “Some days you have it and some days you don’t. You found a way to win even though you didn’t have your best stuff today and there’s victory in that. All you can do is the best that you can with what you have on the day.” I at the time was a junior or senior in high school learning that lesson from him and that has applied to so many things in my life both professionally and personally. Then in triathlon, a finish line is a finish line. It doesn’t always go perfect out there trying to reach that finish line. We have hiccups, we have things that we think could have gone better that we wish had gone better, but reaching that finish line is always a win and it’s worth celebrating.

Hey guys, we’re going to throw this question out to you like we always do on Monday when a show comes out. Make sure you’re a part of the I AM TriDot Facebook group. Head to the page and find our post throwing this question out. I am just super excited to see what positive lessons you’ve taken in from your coaches, whether they’re– maybe something you heard from your triathlon coach, maybe it’s something you heard here on the podcast. Maybe it’s something you picked up in another sport somewhere along the way, but what is a lesson that you got from a coach that sunk in and just really made a difference for you on game day, on race day, whatever. Can’t wait to hear what you have to say.

Main set theme: On to the main set. Going in 3…2…1…

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Andrew: Here at TriDot we routinely shout from the rooftops how much we believe in triathlon coaching and we just praise the next level care an athlete receives when paired with the right coach. We often get questions from athletes about being coached and so today I’m here with Jeff and John to kick around questions like, at what point in your tri journey should an athlete consider getting a coach? How do you find the right coach for you? What enhancements can a coach add to your triathlon experience? And so much more. So fellas, let’s get into it here. Just for each of you anecdotally, what led you to become a triathlon coach? What was it for you John?

John: So for me I probably started off like a lot. For me it was largely born out of my own training and racing. It’s kind of similar to even the founding of TriDot. I think we tell that story in episode one of the TriDot podcast where Jeff Booher was just consuming all the information he could in order to enhance his own triathlon training and racing and as you acquire all this information, certain people like Jeff and like myself just want to share it with others. So that’s really how it came about for me was I was consuming as much information as I could. I was eating it up. I was loving it. I was reading all sorts of articles, all sorts of publications and listening to podcasts. I talk about that in episode one of the TriDot podcast where there were a couple podcasts that I listened to that really provided me a whole lot of good information in my training and racing and then eventually into my coaching. What I kind of started doing was just kind of passively coaching. Like, I knew someone would be having a race come up and I was like, “Hey, well here’s some tips that I learned along the way.” Or “Here’s some things that I’ve done that have been successful for me.” and then kind of from there it just kind of morphed. Around that time, even at the time the training system was not yet even referred to as TriDot, but it was what would become TriDot was in place and so at the time Jeff Booher was my coach. He’s the founder, CEO of Predictive Fitness, TriDot. Back in the day he was actually a coach, my coach. So I started talking to him and I was like, “Hey, I think I’d like to be a coach.” At the time the only TriDot coaches, or what would become TriDot, were members of the Tri For Him Pro Team. So there’s a related organization called Tri For Him. It’s a faith based triathlon club and at the time there was a pro team and so it was an opportunity for these up and coming professional athletes to earn some income to subsidize what they were doing as professional athletes. So Jeff was wanting to allocate most of those athletes to those guys so they could earn some income, so it took me about a year to convince Jeff. Like, “I want to be a coach. I’m serious. I can do this.” and so I still like to give him a hard time about that because here we are 10+ years later and so that was kind of how it started for me and that’s how I became a coach. Yeah, I finally convinced him to give me a shot and a decade later, here I am.

Andrew: Now that you’re a coach John and Jeff, same question for you, it’s so funny to think back to then and think to just you being a triathlete knocking on the door of your coach saying, “Hey I might be interested in doing this too.” How often do you guys hear from your coached athletes, they come to you and say “Hey I’ve really enjoyed this. I’ve gotten a lot out of this. I think I could do this too.” Is that something you hear from your athletes from time to time?

John: Yeah, a lot of our great coaches have come up through the ranks and they started off either as users, they were ambassadors, and kind of same thing. Just like I said. It’s kind of a natural path that a lot of us take. You acquire all this information and then some people just love sharing that information and have that propensity, that personality to share and encourage others and we’ll talk more about that, but that’s kind of what I feel is kind of that ideal “career path” for a coach. Is acquire this information, acquire experience, and then share it with others.

Jeff: Yeah, I mean I actually had two of my athletes just in the last week or two both reach out saying like, “Hey, I’d kind of love to at least toy the idea of becoming a TriDot coach.” Hopefully they kind of like our relationship that we have and hopefully that’s spurring them, encouraging them and hopefully even at the same time. Maybe there’s something that I could even be doing better and maybe that is what encourages them to coach and I hope that they would obviously reach out and I would love that constructive criticism and that kind of leads me to my answer to this question; how did I become a triathlon coach? I loved my high school coaches and I ran for multiple universities in college too, but even in high school. I lived in the same hours all four years of high school, but our city was such an upcoming, growing city that I went to three different high schools in four years living in the same home because they just kept building new schools. So I got a wide variety of coaches in high school and loved them all. I ran for both NAIA at the collegiate level and then after two years transferred to NCAA and so I got to see a lot of coaches. I got to see their approaches. I got to see the public sector, the private sector. Some are more character based. Some are more performance based. Just that and even in college, undergrad, my goal was not to be a coach. My undergrad is biology, but as I got further into my collegiate track career I wanted to get into coaching. I actually wanted to coach collegiate track at one point and to be a coach at the NCAA level you have to have a Masters degree. So that’s why I went into exercise physiology in the beginning.

Andrew: Interesting.

Jeff: But then in grad school I got introduced to triathlon, fell in love with it, and once I got that Masters I went straight into triathlon coaching and pursued that over the collegiate level. But just seeing so many different aspects of coaching and coaches and how they coach and all of that I wanted to go in and try to kind of put a blend of all of them in my coaching approach.

Andrew: So when I was new to kind of new-ish in my own triathlon journey, I just kind of wrote off the concept of getting a coach. I wasn’t racing long course. I wasn’t a threat to win or podium at races. So I just thought, “I don’t need a coach. I’m not really fast enough to merit the attention of a coach.” And the more I got into the tri scene the more my mindset shifted on that. But for our athletes listening today who maybe have had some form of that in their minds tell me this, who is the coached experience for? What athlete should consider bringing on a coach?

John: So really it could be anyone. So there’s not necessarily a correlation between experience level, performance level, race distance, anything like that. So that’s what we hear a lot of times. It’s like, “Well I’m new so I don’t need a coach yet.” Or “I’m not a high performance athlete so I don’t need a coach.” Or “I’m not racing Ironman so I don’t need a coach.” But really, the coach can provide benefit to athletes of all of those whether you’re new to the sport or a professional athlete, especially in the beginning there’s so much to learn. That’s one thing I say that coaches can be a great enhancement to a new triathlete because, again, like I said before, we’re basing so much of what we do on our own education and our own experience. There’s a lot to learn about triathlon. It’s a very long, very steep learning curve and working with a coach can really accelerate that learning curve. You can avoid a whole lot of pitfalls and a whole lot of lessons learned the hard way by working with someone who is there and kind of guiding you through that; kind of holding your hand through the beginning of your triathlon career and kind of keeping you on the straight and narrow so that you get to some of those higher levels quicker. Then we see on the opposite end of the spectrum that the vast majority of professional athletes are still working with coaches. Those are our short course athletes that are racing in the Olympics. Those are long course athletes that are competing in the Ironman World Championship and every distance in between. So we see that. There’s benefit to the very new triathletes. There’s benefit to the most seasoned triathletes and really everyone in between. So it’s really– not everyone has to have a coach. I’m certainly not saying that, but most athletes will be better working with a coach. Most athletes will enjoy working with a coach. Most triathletes will enjoy triathlon more when partnering…

Andrew: Yeah.

John: …with a coach in their training and racing.

Jeff: I think John nailed the nail on the head there. The only thing that I would add is kind of even taking it to a fairly unique twist. Let’s say that you hear that, you process it, you got it. So you’re someone who may have been timid reaching out asking for a coach. Maybe, “I’m not good enough or I’m such a beginner. I don’t want to reach out to that coach. They’ll think it’s a joke coaching someone like me.” And that’s just not the case. So the approach I’m going to kind of take is let’s say someone did reach out and now they have a coach, but they’re still a little timid. So I’ve actually had athletes that say that they don’t want to bother me because they’re not one of my faster athletes and so they’ll just say, “Well, you know, I didn’t want to bother you.” That’s just not the right mindset. What I want to do is try to erase that misconception of coaching, right? All your athletes are created equal, so don’t be timid.

Andrew: I can attest Jeff and John for each of you and for so many other TriDot coaches I’ve been at races with. I mean you guys get just as jazzed about your slower finishers finishing a race as you do your more elite athletes and–

Jeff: And actually this kind of reminds me. Somebody asked me a couple days ago actually, “Why are you a parent? Why should I have kids? We’re considering having kids but what’s–”

Andrew: That’s a great question.

Jeff: And this is for you too Andrew. Why should I have kids right? And one of the answers I gave is it is priceless seeing when your kids learn something for the first time and you see it through their eyes and it clicks and now it’s a life lesson. They got it. Now they understand that and they’ll have that the rest of their life. It’s so rewarding as a parent and a lot of our athletes kind of sort of are our children, right? They’re our pride and joy. We’ve created this triathlete. What you just said hit home because whether it’s their first sprint or their 20th Ironman, when I’m at that finish line and I see them cross that finish line for the first time no matter what the distance, no matter if you’re first or last place, seeing that reward of that athlete putting it all together, crossing the finish line, completing their goal is priceless.

Andrew: So if being a coach, watching an athlete flourish and blossom is kind of like being a parent, does that mean if you’re like a Coach Jeff Booher and the athletes that you once coached are now coaches, does that make you like a grandparent coach in the sport? So like Jeff Raines if one of your coached athletes becomes a coach are you now a grandparent coach in the sport already? Is that kind of how it works?

Jeff: Ooh. I like that. That’s an even deeper layer Andrew. Yes, yes of course.

John: So yeah. I can answer that and I can attest to that and I will say that I even have somewhat of a relationship or somewhat of a bond to the athletes– because I do have some of those. Some of those athletes that I coached that are now coaches. I pay a little bit more attention to those athletes. I track them out there. Yeah so it’s–

Andrew: It’s like your grandkids.

John: Yeah exactly. There is a little bit of almost like a lineage kind of a thing. So yes. I hadn’t really thought of that, but as you were mentioning that I was like, you know what there is something to that and yeah. You know, we have a great partnership, a great network to where especially within the TriDot coaches you may have a TriDot coach, but you really have access to a network and again, we’ll talk more about that as well. But there certainly is that as well. There’s community around it so if you get one of us, you get all of us kind of a thing. So it’s a great experience.

Andrew: So coached or not, we fully believe in using TriDot for your training plan. So if the software is generating the training and not a coach, what exactly does the coach add to the experience that makes it worth the upgrade?

John: So from a high level working with coaches and it really applies to the athlete as well, what I tell the coaches especially as they come on and remind them throughout the coaching career is that the coach works for the athlete, not the other way around. Oftentimes I think especially as we come up through youth sports and then like school sports it’s very much where that athlete is subordinate to the coach. Where they’re that authority figure so I think we are kind of hardwired to feel like it’s us working for the coach and the coach calls the shots. To a certain extent in team sports it is. It’s the coach that makes the calls, that sets the plan, dictates everything, and the athlete basically goes out and performs accordingly. But I really feel like the relationship that we have as triathletes and triathlon coaches working with triathletes, the coach works for the athlete, not the other way around. So there’s that kind of power switch there and I think it kind of takes that special person as that coach to relegate that control and say again to remind you like you’re paying me to tell you what to do. You’re paying me. You hired me to help you make decisions. So I think that is an initial precedent that needs to be set that you are placing me in this position of authority and it’s at your leisure. So when you decide that I’m no longer the shot caller, then I’m no longer the shot caller. So one thing I convey to the coaches is at a high level, and Jeff spoke to this. The coach’s job is to maximize each athlete's enjoyment of triathlon. So very early on what that coach needs to do is identify what can I do to help this athlete to maximize their enjoyment of triathlon? What is going to define each athlete’s maximum enjoyment of triathlon. For some it’s Kona qualification or die. You know, that’s it. All I care about– I don’t want to have fun. I don’t want to enjoy myself. I don’t want to have the healthy lifestyle. All I care about is getting to Kona. Others on the opposite end of the spectrum and say I just want to be healthy. I want to enjoy triathlon. I want to go to races and connect with people and I don’t really care about my finishing times, but you know I want to do well and I want to just enjoy swim, cycling, and running and stay healthy and all that. So you know you have that spectrum and everyone falls somewhere along that way. Most are somewhere in the middle where they want to maximize their potential, but they want to have fun in the process. So it’s identifying what does that look like and then doing all that you can to work with that athlete to deliver that to them. So again, it’s identifying what is going to maximize their enjoyment and then doing all you can to help them achieve that.

Andrew: So we have a solid number of coaches across the United States and really around the world at this point that use TriDot to coach their athletes, but there are still plenty of coaches out there working with local tri clubs and coaching athletes without the benefit of TriDot’s training. Now I’m a company man. I believe a TriDot coach just brings more to the table for an athlete than coaches outside of our network. John, tell folks why that is.

John: So yeah. There certainly are unique advantages to being a TriDot coach. Before a coach can do anything, there has to be a training plan. Before a coach can motivate, a coach can inspire, a coach can provide feedback, there has to be something that the athlete is doing. There has to be a plan in place as that starting point. So again, without that training plan in place there’s really nothing to work around. So that training plan is the foundation. That is the base. That’s where everything starts. Now the problem with that is writing and adjusting, analyzing training is very laborious. It’s very time consuming. To go and to write a 12, 14, 16 week training plan in and to a race takes a tremendous amount of time especially if the coach is truly going in and doing all they can to create that training plan specifically for each athlete. They’re custom making that training, writing every session with that one specific athlete in mind, with that one specific goal is very laborious, very tedious, very time consuming. Then as that athlete begins to execute their training they have to go in and look at a tremendous amount of data. We know there are thousands of data points created in every single training session an athlete does. So then the coach has to go and try to make sense of this tremendous amount of data that was created within it and then decide what adjustments to that training plan need to be made based on all of that. So obviously as TriDot coaches, we rely on the TriDot platform to do all of that. So we are not having to create a training plan. We are not having to monitor athlete execution. We are not having to make adjustments to athlete training based on past sessions. So we are allowing the technology to do what technology does best, which is optimize data. It has capabilities that we do not. By leveraging the TriDot platform, we are using technology to do what it does best again which allows us to do what we do best and allows us to do what the software can’t. So software is fantastic at creating training plans. Software is fantastic at analyzing data and making refinements to training. Then what that allows us to do is be fantastic at, again, the things that we do. We are able to spend far less time logged into the training app and spend far more time working with the athlete. So those things like, again, communication, education, inspiration, motivation, all those things that the athletes really enjoy, really value is what the TriDot coaches are able to prioritize. Then we provide numerous resources to the coaches both from an education standpoint, the networking standpoint, and then there’s opportunities where we are at every US Ironman Race. That’s a great opportunity for coaches to come together. We offer camps and that sort of thing. So it really is, as we’ve mentioned a couple times before, a very strong network that enhances both the coaches and the athletes.

Andrew: So as TriDot staff, I’ve found myself at the dinner table several times shoulder to shoulder with different TriDot coaches and it’s always fascinating for me to just watch y’all talk shop; because everyone has kind of different approaches to how they communicate with their athletes and how they prepare athletes for an upcoming race. What are some of the unique things you guys have seen TriDot coaches do to just connect with their athletes and coach them just day-to-day?

Jeff: There’s so many different approaches. Like I have some athletes that are local; friends even family nearby and so there’s an opportunity that we meet up regularly. We might do a swim every Friday and then we all go to lunch afterwards. Maybe we all meet for weekend outdoor rides, but the majority of athletes that I coach are not local. So what I try to do and some of the things that I like as far as connecting with my athletes is one, how can we do things together to build our one-on-one relationship, but then at the same time what are things that I can do to get all my athletes in it together so that we have this team moral aspect and we can connect on a whole other level. I like to encourage a lot of my athletes, maybe we all sign up for some of the same races so we can all see each other in person. I actually have 13 of my athletes doing Ironman California this year. It’s going to be a blast. It’s going to be a party. I’m even doing it as well and we’re all training together and we’re all in this together. We have team Zoom calls where every few weeks we all get together and I’ll present topics and sometimes I have guest speakers on there and sometimes I give demonstrations or slide shows so we can all see each other face-to-face. We have team assessment weeks, Team Raines. We will all do our bike test the same day and so we’re all doing it together. Sometimes we’ll pull up Zoom or text threads, things like that to where we’re all in it together. Your race is nine months away, are you really going to kill yourself for those extra two watts at home by yourself? But hey, if 15 of your teammates are all doing it together…

Andrew: Yeah.

Jeff: …maybe you’ll get those two extra watts, right?

Andrew: Yeah.

Jeff: We, and I’ve seen other coaches do this too, but something I do is every Saturday my crew we all meet if you want. We do group rides virtually. So we’ll all get on Rouvy, pick a course, hey everyone log in at 8:00 a.m. and we’re all going to ride together. So now I can see everybody’s watts and I may say “Why are you pushing zone 6 up this hill? We have two more hours to go.” So I can actually see how they ride. I can learn about them. At the same time, it’s like we’re riding together so I kind of sort of know how they’re gearing and how they ride, but at the same time it’s a group ride. So just having that quality, having that communication is huge.

John: So I love feedback. The more the athlete gives, the more I can give back. So it’s one of those things that really is– when the athlete provides information to the coach, the coach can then contextualize that information and again provide that objective feedback. So that’s really one of the key things that a coach delivers to the athlete is that objective feedback. Oftentimes the athlete gets caught up in different things and the coach can be that objective voice of reason or just that objective feedback. One thing I see on a regular basis is athletes will be frustrated with a session or a race and to kind of steal your warmup term, Andrew, sometimes a win is a win and we don’t necessarily process it as much and oftentimes the athlete may experience a win, but they don’t see it as a win.

Andrew: Yeah.

John: So they need that objective feedback to say, “Hey look. This is actually a really good thing.” Sometimes that’s a blown session. Sometimes a blown, horrible session can actually be a really good thing. So when you have that person that’s there to say, “Hey look. Here’s what happened. Here’s how you’re seeing it. Here’s how I’m seeing it and this is why I think this is a win.” The subjective feedback is critical as well. So objective feedback is very important. A lot of that is recorded in data. A lot of that is taken care of by the analytics, but it’s good to know that objective data along with the subjective. Something I always want to know from the athletes especially after key sessions is how did it go? I’m not necessarily asking what was your average pace or what was your max wattage. It was how did you feel in the session? How did you feel physically and how did you feel emotionally? How did you feel about the session? How did you feel going into the session? How did you feel during? How did you feel afterwards? All those things allow us to, again, enhance that athlete’s experience and allow them to enjoy triathlon more. It all comes down to relationship and trust and a lot of that has to do with that communication which again goes back to the fact that we have, as TriDot coaches, the ability to prioritize communication. So that really allows us to prioritize the athlete.

Andrew: Adding a coach to your tri experience, it does cost something and just like anyone else deserving financial compensation for their time, for their energy, tri coaches have a price tag and it’s deservedly so. Realistically, what is the cost of hiring a triathlon coach and for triathletes considering their next tri upgrade, where in the hierarchy of spending money on tri stuff would you prioritize getting a coach?

John: With TriDot the monthly fee is going to vary depending on the coach that you’re working with. Coaches are able to set their own rates and a coach with more experience, more tenure, more education obviously they’re going to be able to fetch  higher rate for their services. Within TriDot the monthly fee ranges from 250 to 400. The vast majority of coaches fall within that spectrum of 250 to 400 dollars a month which is pretty standard for the industry as well. Those athletes get full functioning of TriDot. So everything the software offers as well as unlimited communication, unlimited access to their coach.

Andrew: So John, when you say unlimited access to your coach, so you being my triathlon coach does that mean I can roll down the friends with whenever I want and crash on your couch and get all the one-on-one attention in the world that I desire from you, my triathlon coach? Is that unlimited access?

John: For you it is. Uh, yeah. To an extent within reason and really the distinguishment there is often what we’ll see is coaches in other platforms will limit things like communication. You’ll get a certain amount of communication per month and again, as we’ve talked about before, that’s not something we want to do. We don’t want to limit communication. So we offer that. We don’t necessarily track it or limit it or say you only get so much of me on a monthly basis. So yeah, it’s as much as needed.

Andrew: I’ll be the first to say I joke about that. Boundaries are healthy. It’s not healthy for a triathlon coach to have you blowing up their phone at 2:00 in the morning just because that’s when you’re up and you have a question. Boundaries in a coached athlete– in any relationship are healthy. So I’m joking about that.

John: Yeah, so my immediate response to any text at 2:00 a.m. is what in the heck are you doing up at 2:00 a.m. Sleep is very important. You are obviously not prioritizing sleep or doing what you need to do to have a good night sleep if you are up texting me at 2:00 a.m. But again, it comes down to relationships and sometimes we need those people that we can call at 2:00 a.m. and maybe it’s there. You know, certainly not encouraging that. I’m not asking any of my athletes to text me at 2:00 a.m. Chances are I won’t see it until morning. But again, when it comes back to relationships, who knows. That may be there, but it’s one of those things like do you call your doctor, your attorney, your CPA or whatever at 2:00 in the morning. Now I will say that we do have more extended hours than most other professionals, so not completely unreasonable to have a call at 6:00 a.m. or 9:00 p.m. Again, it comes back to relationship. What are those boundaries? What have you set between you and your coach or as a coach you and your athletes? It’s up to there. The relationship is going to dictate what is acceptable and what is healthy. There are some folks– I’m thinking of like, I know Kathy Hudson, one of our fantastic coaches, she’s up very early. So for her to respond to a text or an email at 5:00 in the morning would not be uncommon. Others are night owls and may be up until midnight with access to their phone. So again it comes back to having that relationship and knowing those boundaries.

Now as far as the hierarchy of spending goes, we talked before in things like watts per dollar or seconds per dollar. What I would say is get the basics that you need. So things like your GPS watch, a well fit tri bike, all those basic things that you have to have and then prioritize getting a coach as you are able to. We spoke early on about that learning curve. You’re going to get through that learning curve much quicker working with a coach and then that ongoing partnership that you’re going to have with that coach as you’re progressing through your training, through your recovery, through your race preparations, you are going to perform that much better simply because you have an educated person who knows you and knows what you’re experiencing, what you’re going through, and can help you with that. So you will perform better. If you’re evaluating this decision on a seconds per dollar, this is going to be very high up there. This is going to be one of those things that’s going to be tough to beat the return on that. So I would say do what you’ve got to do to get those basic things first and then prioritize adding a coach when available.

Andrew: Yep, no very true. Now some coached athletes partner up with a coach seasonally as their race schedule kind of ebbs and flows and then some will stay with a coach full time just for the entire year. What are the pros and cons of these two approaches and is there a best way to go?

Jeff: There definitely is. I mean, I get it. The cost/savings, right? You may have even heard John say 250 to 400 a month, “Oh my goodness! I can’t do that.”

Andrew: That’s an investment. That is definitely an investment for sure.

Jeff: It is. I mean and it’s a hit, right, and it’s a big commitment. Some have even heard okay, yeah, it’s all month-to-month. So I can do it for one month, I can do it for three months, and there’s my Ironman and peace out. I get it. Then oh next year a couple months out from my next Ironman I’ll go back to that coach. We did great. Or whatever. The goal, right, is consistency. We say it on almost every podcast. Perfection is not required. We try to do the right training right. We try to get great TrainX scores and execution every workout, but perfection is not required, but consistency is key. So there are just things that you can do with a coach year to year, right, or throughout the entire year that you can’t do a couple months out from a big race or something like that. Year to year improvements are one of the biggest answers to that question. New athletes to the sport, you’re going to learn two years’ worth of information in just maybe your first few months working with a coach. So it’s just the value there is invaluable. Then there are also things that if I only have an athlete for a couple months, I’m not going to maybe take your running to the next level. I might need a year to develop stride length versus cadence and are we going to shorten your stride or elongate your stride and it’s stuff like that we’re just not able to do your first year or maybe you’re new. But if I had you two or three years, there are things that I coach my 3-year-old athletes that I’m not going to coach someone that I just got…

Andrew: Yeah.

Jeff: …a month ago, right? So that build on year to year is crucial.

Andrew: Nope, totally get that. There are some folks that the price tag of a coach is just going to rule it out for them and that’s totally fine. The good thing for you as an athlete is the TriDot optimized training is there at several very, very friendly price points and every athlete is going to see just great improvements just from the training alone. So we’re certainly not advocating for anybody to break their budget or destroy their budget or live outside of their means by adding a coach. But for folks that maybe can afford the coach, but maybe they can only afford it for a limited part of the year. What part of the season should an athlete bring on a coach?

John: So I’ve said this before. I’m going to stand by my answer. If I have a limited amount of time to work with an athlete, oftentimes, especially for a big long course race, the natural intuitive thing is to hire that coach in those last couple months prior as you’re getting into those long sessions and race day approaches. I would prefer to work with that athlete in those months prior to that race prep phase because that period of time is so critical to that athlete’s success. We always say that that is the period of time when you are going to establish what your finishing time is. Oftentimes we have those time-based goals whether it is to make those cut offs or to win an age group or to win the race overall. Your finishing time is going to be determined by that work that is done in the months prior to you beginning to switch over to building that stamina and doing those longer sessions. Simply because that development phase prior to the race prep phase is so critical. That’s when I would say. I would rather work with that athlete early on and then let them go and do those longer sessions on their own. Now, that said, that race prep phase especially for that long-course race is unique. It has unique challenges and there’s a lot of value that the coach can provide through that as well. So it’s really one of those things, it’s kind of a hard thing as a coach because, as we mentioned before, so much is based on relationship and it’s a progression of going from that development phase into that race prep phase. You’re doing different things. Fast before far, strong before long. You know, those are two different things. You have your fast phase and your long phase and it’s having the ability to work with that athlete throughout that entire process. So it’s tough to pick one. Obviously our best case scenario is to work with the athlete throughout, not have those interruptions especially knowing that the relationship is so critical. If I had to pick one, again, I would go with that phase before the race prep phase.

Andrew: Yeah, so sooner than later.

Jeff: No joke. This happened last year. I had an athlete reach out and say, “Hey in a few months I’m going to hire you.” And I said, “Wo, wo, wo. Okay, that’s great. Thanks for thinking of me.” They were like nine or ten months out from Ironman and they said, “I only have enough to hire a coach for five months.” and honestly I had them start right then and there and we did four months right then and there and then they did three, four whatever months on their own and then they came back one month before the Ironman.

Andrew: Umm, nice.

Jeff: Just to kind of– I totally agree with John, because it’s now the developmental; the fast before far. You know, let’s develop you now. You can build stamina and get some momentum going and then we’ll touch base when race rehearsals, a month out, put the fine tune on there. So absolutely I agree with John there.

Andrew: Yeah that’s great guys. That’s a great tangible way to look at it right there. So hands down, the most frequently asked question I see within the TriDot community regarding bringing on a coach is this: How do I find the right coach? John, Jeff, what say you?

Jeff: I think a lot of athletes might know one or two people in their area or maybe a year or two ago their friend used this person or something and so they have an idea of maybe a couple names that they might reach out to if they ever did need or want a coach, but I think we have something special in TriDot. We have tons and tons of coaches and we have Cindy Reeves. Right? She’s the head of our admin team, our support team, and she does an amazing job. If you don’t have someone you know or you don’t already have a relationship that you know will work well with that one particular person that you have in mind, but you’ve always wanted a coach, Cindy is a great matchmaker. She knows TriDot. She knows the TriDot coaches, what they offer, where their locations are, what their specialties are. You know, is this person good with nutrition? This one maybe the elderly. Tons and tons of just different categories let’s say. Every coach kind of has their niche specialty and Cindy and John know these individuals. So when in doubt, don’t hesitate. Just ask. Ask on the I AM TriDot Facebook page. What coach have you worked with? Hey I’m new to the sport or I’m a low budget athlete. Is there a coach? You know, ask that on I AM TriDot. Reach out to our support. Reach out to Cindy, John. Let’s play matchmaker. Then inside of all of that, interview multiple coaches. So don’t just have that one name or even the first name that even Cindy gives you. Say, “Cindy can you give me the names of three coaches that might–”

Andrew: Yeah, can you give me a short list?

Jeff: Yeah. “Of all the coaches you guys have out there and all the relationships you’ve heard of and know of, who are the two best that you think would work best with me.” Interview both of them and then make that decision.

Andrew: So when you head into a call with a coach, just trying to get to know them to interview them and see if they’re a good fit for you, what questions should an athlete ask in those sessions and what should they consider in those conversations?

John: So I would say the important thing is personality trumps resume. A lot of times you’ll see coaches that tout oftentimes their own achievements or even the achievements of the athletes that they’ve worked with, their education, how many races they’ve done, how many certifications they have, and that’s all well and good, but I’ve mentioned several times already that personality is critical and it is relationships. I would say when you have that call let that be one of the main things that you’re looking for. Is this someone that you feel like you click with? I would say the vast majority of the time, I’ve done hundreds of these calls with athletes. You get a sense quite quickly. I think the coach gets a sense and the athlete gets a sense as well. Either you guys hit it off from the very beginning and you just click, or it’s just not there and that’s okay, but that’s critical to have a personality that you’re going to work with, that you’re going to be able to develop that trust with…

Andrew: Yeah.

John: …and be comfortable in communication. Even the types of communication that is going to exist between the coach and the athlete is real important. So if one coach likes to have regular phone calls, but you’re a super busy professional and you don’t have time for a weekly 30 minute call then that’s not a great fit. Or some people prefer their primary means of communication to be texting and if you’re not a texter then that’s not a great fit for you. You’re going to have difficulties in that communication. So especially within our TriDot coaches, all of our TriDot coaches are vetted. I have full faith in the ability of all of our coaches so I really can say that. Find that coach that you click with. Find that coach that you have a personality that you match with that you have trust and you’re going to enjoy establishing that relationship. Because, again, that’s what’s going to provide the best coach-athlete relationship is having that ability to develop a strong, enjoyable, high quality, relationship.

Andrew: This is more just out of curiosity than anything else. Maybe some other athletes are wondering this as well so I’ll throw it out to you guys. How many athletes do most coaches have on their roster in a given time and does that even matter to me as an athlete if I’m going to go with you as my coach?

John: It absolutely matters. Outside of TriDot your normal triathlon coach is probably going to have somewhere between five and ten athletes on the high end simply because as we’ve discussed, going in and creating a training plan for five to ten athletes is a tremendous time constraint. You’re going to be spending 10 to 20 hours a week simply writing training plans. So you’ve got not a whole lot of time there. You can only coach so many athletes and then you can only designate so much time to those athletes. Now, as we discussed, TriDot is a very different model so that the TriDot coaches are not having to spend that time. So the one, they’re able to prioritize communication, prioritize the athlete, but they’re also able to work with more athletes. So some coaches may only still have five athletes or so depending on what their time availability is. So anywhere from 2, 3, 5 athletes up to 20 or 30 athletes or more. We have coaches that work part time. They are able to give a couple hours per week to their coaching businesses and other coaches work full time. This is their job. This is their livelihood where they’re coaching 30 athletes or more. So it really kind of depends on the coach and what their availability is.

Andrew: So for someone who is interested in coaching, John you said earlier that some of our best coaches here at TriDot were TriDot athletes first and they just came up through the ranks and grew to love the sport, grew to know the sport, thought that they would be a good fit. So if someone’s listening and maybe that’s them and they want to give this a shot and get more involved with TriDot for Coaches, what steps do they need to take to become a triathlon coach?

John: So that is one of the hats I wear within the organization. I am the director of coaching so that is something I do is work with prospective coaches. We do require that all of our coaches have either a certification from their national governing body; for the Americans that’s going to be USA Triathlon or Ironman U certification. As mentioned in the intros, Jeff and I have both of those. We’re both Ironman U and level II certified coaches. So we do require a certification from our coaches. Then from there to become a coach there’s a process whereby the prospective coach provides us with some information. We provide them with some educational materials that inform them as to what TriDot is, what TriDot for Coaches looks like, how everything works, and then it’s just a process. From there we get to know the coach and we allow the coach to get to know us and if we feel like it’s a good fit then we invite them to join the team.

Andrew: So as I get to know more and more TriDot coaches, I’ve just been struck by how different everyone is. I mean, we have just an excellent roster of coaches and new coaches are coming to TriDot all the time. They all have different backgrounds. They all have different specialties and they all have different abilities as athletes themselves. I mean, some are or were elite athletes and some are kind of average Joe’s, but they’re still excellent coaches. So what makes someone a good triathlon coach and who is a good candidate to even become one?

John: So I think there’s one primary thing with a bit of a caveat. As we mentioned, to be a great triathlon coach you have to be someone that can connect with people and establish trust. So I think that is the one thing that is more so a personality kind of thing oftentimes. Then from there the caveat is you do have to have an understanding of training principles, a basic understanding of things like anatomy, injury prevention, recovery. All those things that the athletes are going to encounter. So it’s not just enough to be a best friend. You have to be able to provide sound advice, sound feedback that is going to enhance that athlete’s experience. It’s not just about yeah, I’m paying for a best friend, it’s a friend that is able to provide high levels of sound advice. As I mentioned before, oftentimes coaches will tout their athletic achievements as a reason to hire them. Their resume or their sales pitch may be “well I went X time at Y distance race” and that’s largely irrelevant simply because one coach is able to perform that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re able to translate that to the athletes that they work with and oftentimes there’s not. So what worked for that athlete may not work for the athletes they work with. So one thing that I say is there’s a lot of my athletes that are faster than me and it’s even kind of fun…

Andrew: No doubt, no doubt, no doubt.

John: …to start with athletes that are slower than me and after a while see them move on to be faster than me. I don’t know, maybe not my favorite part of coaching, but it’s certainly fun to see that.

Jeff: The squire soon surpasses the mentor, right?

John: You know, if you’re doing things right, it’s all about helping people reach their potential. So yeah, if their potential is faster than me then I’ve done my job well when they’re racing faster than me. A lot of top coaches in triathlon or other sports, some were high level players, but a lot were not. You know, you look around professional sports, NBA, NFL, those coaches there– some of them were players, some of them were high level players, but most of them weren’t. A lot of those famous hall of fame coaches, they’re known for their coaching career not necessarily their playing career. So you don’t necessarily have to have a great athletic resume, but it’s your understanding of the sport and your ability to lead the athletes that you work with.

Cool down theme: Great set everyone! Let’s cool down.

Andrew: Here and there on the podcast we like to close out the show just by giving some athlete shoutouts. We always love seeing what our athletes are up to on the I AM TriDot Facebook group and on other social media outlets and Strava of course. It’s always fun just to give shoutouts to some athletes who are out there representing TriDot and doing the sport of triathlon proud. So guys, just for the context of today’s conversation about coaching I thought this would be a really fun cool down to have all three of us just give a quick shout out to one athlete and then one TriDot coach who have just been extra triathlony lately. You can have any reasoning you want to for the people you mention. Just have a reason and mention it. So John, one athlete and one coach giving a shout out to today, who have you got?

John: Man, this is so much harder than– Like, you “Oh yeah this is a fun, quick question.” No it’s not. Which is my favorite kid and I’ve got to say Kristin is making a fantastic comeback, working super hard. Another Misty working super hard overcoming some hurdles and some challenges. Meg is absolutely crushing her training with some big goals out there. Man. All of them. I can’t pick one. So I’ll go with all of them. It’s probably a bad answer, but it’s what I’ve got.

Andrew: We’ll allow it. You don’t do that often so we’ll allow it. John, what's one TriDot coach you want to give a shoutout to today?

John: I’m going to shout out to one of my best friends and training partner, Coach JoJo. She’s doing a lot of fantastic stuff both with the athletes that she works with and in her own training. So she’s racing both the St. George World Championships as well as the Kona World Championships this year. Put in just a ton of hard work to make that happen and at the same time she’s just doing fantastic things with the athletes that she works with. So she’s a great resource for me. Like I said, she’s one of my best friends and training partner. She makes me better on a daily basis.

Andrew: Yep and we’ve been getting Coach JoJo on the podcast more and more. She just has great insight, great wisdom, is very good at motivating her athletes and discerning what their needs are and her bringing that to our podcast audience is something that I have greatly appreciated as of late. I want to give a quick shout out to TriDot Coach Jason Verbracken. He is a long-time TriDot athlete who we’ve interviewed on the podcast before. He was on our episode talking about Xtreme Triathlon. He’s training right now for his first Ultraman distance race and just a cool guy. He’s so strong and he’s such a great athlete, but at the same time he’s very humble about it. He’s very chill about it and he is just the prime example of an athlete who came up through TriDot as an athlete and realized hey I might be interested in coaching and he is now one of our newly minted TriDot coaches. So it’s really been cool lately to see him posting on the group, bragging on what his athletes are accomplishing and not just bragging on his own accomplishments. Shoutout to Jason for taking that lead. Just like you said John and Jeff, he’s got all those qualities you want in a triathlon coach and he’s going to do a bang up job for the athletes who end up on his roster. So shout out to Jason. I just want to give, on the athlete side of things, to just all of our TriDot ambassadors. Right now at the time we’re recording and publishing this episode we are in the middle of the 2021 TriDot Preseason Project and a ton of athletes are coming on board with TriDot as a part of the TriDot Preseason Research Project. Just doing the training, offering their data, and it’s really exciting to see and so just every day because of that with so many people coming on board the platform and giving it a shot, participating in the research project there’s just a lot of questions every single day from those newer folks and I always check the TriDot Facebook group from time to time to see what questions are out there that I can maybe try to answer and at this point our ambassadors collectively are just so good about checking that page and answering folk’s questions that there is very rarely something that I need to answer because it’s already been done by an ambassador. So if you are a TriDot ambassador and you’re just kind of a part of that effort, just a huge thank you to all of y’all.

John: So is that you letting me get away with not one answer because that’s what you were doing? Yeah. I see how that is.

Andrew: See what I did there. See what I did. Normally it’s Jeff Raines. Jeff Raines likes to throw a lot of things out. So today we’re all doing it. But whatever.

John: We’ll see if Jeff can come up with one.

Andrew: Jeff Raines, what have you got?

Jeff: I communicate regularly with these coaches. I bounce ideas off of them. I ask them things. I refer athletes to them as well. Those being Brady, Matt, Heather, Joanna, John and Elizabeth, Kurt, Jessica. You know, you know who you are, but my coach shout out is going to be Coach Jennifer Reinhart. She’s a TriDot coach, Austin area. I coached alongside her at Austin Aquatics and Sports Academy for years and we had a blast. I call her the female version of Kurt Madden. If you know who Kurt is and you know who Coach Jen Reinhart is, hopefully you chuckled there with me. But, respect, respect, respect. She does a great job and I worked alongside her for years. Every day of the week for years at our facility there in Austin and it was just an awesome time. So I’m going to give a shout out to Coach Jen.

John: I will say, Jen is not the version of anyone other than Jen Reinhart. She is a legend in and of herself. She has a stand-alone resume. So yes. Fantastic coach that we are better for having among us. So yeah, great choice there. Great shoutout for Jen.

Jeff: Absolutely agree there John. The shout out is for my athletes, it’s going to be Team Raines. We all communicate well. We try to have this group fun, team aspect, all those things I mentioned earlier and we have something extra special going right now. I have also an extra special feeling just about 2022 in general. We’ve got some good momentum. A lot of these athletes I have coached for a number of months or years now and so we have a good thing going. So bring on the 2022 season. Let’s do it!

Andrew: Well that’s it for today folks. A big thanks to Coach John Mayfield and Coach Jeff Raines for coaching us on triathlon coaching. A big thanks to UCAN for partnering with us on today’s episode. Head to UCAN.co and use the code TRIDOT to save 10% on your SuperStarch order. Enjoying the show? Have any triathlon questions or topics you’d like to hear us talk about? Head to TriDot.com/podcast and let us know what you’re thinking. We’ll have a new show coming your way soon. Until then, Happy Training!

Outro: Thanks for joining us. Make sure to subscribe and share the TriDot podcast with your triathlon crew. For more great tri content and community, connect with us on Facebook, YouTube, and Instagram. Ready to optimize your training? Head to TriDot.com and start your free trial today! TriDot – the obvious and automatic choice for triathlon training.

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