Intro: This is the TriDot podcast. TriDot uses your training data and genetic profile, combined with predictive analytics and artificial intelligence to optimize your training, giving you better results in less time with fewer injuries. Our podcast is here to educate, inspire, and entertain. We’ll talk all things triathlon with expert coaches and special guests. Join the conversation and let’s improve together.

Andrew: Welcome to the TriDot podcast. There is an old time motto of the United States Postal Service that says “Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds.” I think it’s fair to stay that triathletes could adopt this and apply it to our training because no matter the weather, time of day, etcetera, we’ve got to train. We just can’t help ourselves. Now back on TriDot podcast episode 34 we talked about training in the heat and today I’m circling back with two of our coaches to chat about training for triathlon when it’s cold outside. Our first coach joining us for this conversation is Dr. B.J. Leeper. B.J. graduated from The University of Iowa Carver College of Medicine with a Doctorate in Physical Therapy and Rehabilitation Science. He is a Board Certified Orthopedic Specialist, a Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist, and a USA Triathlon Level I Coach. He specializes in comprehensive movement testing and is an avid triathlete himself with over 50 tris under his belt. B.J., perhaps most important for this conversation, you currently are our northernmost staff member living in Montana. B.J., what is the weather there right now?

B.J. Leeper: Well sorry to disappoint, but it’s actually been fairly mild lately for November. Kind of upper 30s, low 40s. So it did snow this past Sunday. We’re expecting some snow this Friday and now it’s looking like we’ll be down in the low 20s, so more typical for this time of year up here. But yeah, we get a lot of snow. Usually about five to six feet of snow each year and usually temps during the winter are in the teens to the 30s. So not horrible, but it’s Montana.

Andrew: Also with us today is TriDot’s very own Matt Bach. Matt is an accomplished athlete with an Ironman Maryland victory and 72nd overall finish in Kona on his resume. He worked on Wall Street as a trader and portfolio manager for nine years, earned his MBA from Temple University, worked in marketing at UCAN for two and a half years before coming on board to lead TriDot’s marketing efforts. Matt, outside your door right now as we’re recording, what is the temp outside for you?

Matt Bach: Well, it’s a balmy 42 degrees here in the Garden State, New Jersey. Yeah that’s right, the Garden State. I’ve heard New Jersey called the Armpit of America by people before and that is disgraceful ignorance. The I-95 corridor and partially Garden State Parkway, yeah they are indeed disgusting, but the vast majority of the state is beautiful and varied and if you can disagree with me, you can come at me in the I Am TriDot Facebook group.

Andrew: Well I’m Andrew the Average Triathlete, Voice of the People, and Captain of the Middle of the Pack. I’m also very excited to see if anybody comes at Matt Bach to argue about New Jersey being the Armpit of America. As always, in the meantime as we wait for that to come to the social media, we’ll roll through our warm up question, we’ll settle in for our main set topic, and then wind things down with our cool down. Everything today is geared to training in the cold. It's going to be lots of good stuff.

Quick reminder. TriDot is currently running the 2021 edition of our annual research project that we call the Preseason Project. We are looking for non-TriDot athletes who want to jump into the research project this year. Qualifying athletes get two free months of TriDot training. It's literally two months of the best training available in exchange for TriDot getting to analyze the training data that comes in from new sessions. I started training with TriDot during the 2018 Preseason Project and immediately took a liking to the structured training schedule and saw huge improvements in my swim, bike, and run. My 70.3 PR before training with TriDot was 5:57 and after training with TriDot that PR is now a 5:02. For those of you doing the math at home that is a 55 minute improvement for me since continuing with TriDot after coming on board for the Preseason Project. If you already train with TriDot, now is the best time to invite your tri friends to participate in the Preseason Project and if you are a podcast listener and have never given our training a try, head to tirdot.co/psp. Join the preseason research project and enjoy two free months of TriDot training. Once again that’s tridot.com/psp.

Warm up: Time to warm up. Let’s get moving.

Andrew: I saw a recent post in the I Am TriDot Facebook group where an athlete reported having their swim workout cut short because someone had mistakenly pottied in the pool and the facility had to get all the swimmers out to clean the water. This of course is a crapy way to have a workout come to an end and it made me wonder, what are some other unforeseen reasons our athletes have had workouts cut short due to circumstances out of their control. So Matt, B.J., what was a time you had a training session get cut short for something totally out of the ordinary? B.J., we’ll start with you.

B.J.: Well, I wasn’t expecting this type of question because it plays right into honestly my most embarrassing triathlon or training moment—

Andrew: Oh perfect!

B.J.: –I’ve ever had.

Andrew: Bring it on.

B.J.: So I’ll try to make a long story somewhat short. But the story goes, I had a pair of swim jammers in my training bag all summer—

Andrew: That’s a promising start.

B.J.: –sitting in the back of the hot car. I decide that night after work, late after work on a Friday night, I’m going to get some swimming in. So I head to the pool and I realize I had these old swim jammers I just use so I’d throw them on. So I get in the pool and I pull them on and as I’m getting into the pool with them they rip straight up the crack about an 8 inch line and I’m thinking to myself “Oh, the spandex is worn out. They’re done.” But at the same time I’m already there. I’m in the pool. There’s nobody else in there at that time.

Andrew: Okay.

B.J.: So I’m thinking well, maybe it’s not that bad. Maybe I can still get it in because I really didn't want to leave at that point. So I keep swimming and as I’m doing my flip turns I realized that the split is getting wider and so I stop at the side of the pool and I decide, well if I pull them up, if I bunch them up. You know, pull them up my leg a little bit more it’ll mabe make that gap not as noticeable and as I pull up the sides of the legs they split right along the sides. So I’ve got the slit on the sides of each leg and I’ve got a slit right down the crack and it’s literally just falling off my body at that point.

Andrew: And every move and every decision you’re making is just making it worse.

B.J.: Every move it’s getting worse. So I decide am I going to cut my pool swim short? And I decide, well there’s still nobody here that I can see so I’m just going to keep going. So I’m literally about swimming in the nude and as I start to wrap up my session there is somebody that eventually comes in so I’m like hovering by the side of the pool about ready to get out and I reach to grab for my towel because that’s the only thing I’ve got to cover myself at that point and I inadvertently grabbed one of my kids’ little swim towels that has Winney the Pooh on it that’s literally like the size of a washcloth in reference to my body. It would be a long story, but that’s how I got out of the pool. Hopefully nobody got the full view, but definitely had to cut my pool swim short that day.

Matt: I enjoyed every second of that. That was a great story. I haven't heard that story yet. That’s a good one. A couple of things I take away from that one is that you are a type A triathlete. That’s for sure.

B.J.: Still had to get it in.

Matt: Still going to get it in and then the next thing is you’ll see soon on the TriDot store we’ll have a swim aid that B.J. just invented which is the cracked shorts and it’s to help keep your legs together.

B.J.: Right, yeah. That’s a good swim training aid. Who knew?

Andrew: You maybe shouldn’t have gone for the flip turns in that scenario whether you were alone or not. Matt Bach, after that fantastic story, what have you got for us?

Matt: Yeah, I don’t know. I can’t compete with the humor in that story.

Andrew: Me either.

Matt: But I do have a pretty wild one for this though. Lake Placid, Memorial Day Weekend, May 2013. I went up there with a bunch of friends for an informal week training camp, it wasn’t a formal training, it was just a bunch of us getting together to train our butts off for a weekend. Normally the high is in the 60s and 70s, lows in the 50s that time of year. Turns out though it was below freezing for most of the weekend peaking out at around 40 degrees every once in a while, overcast. Every once in a while there was precipitation. We went out on a ride to White Face, the mountain there. We were going to climb it because we were like, “Oh yeah. Great idea.” If it’s cold you climb and you’re not going to go as fast and you’re going to get your body temp up because you’re going to be climbing, so we’ll be fine. So I was thinking to myself, “Okay, I don't need to dress up like crazy because we’re going to be climbing.” So I ended up underdressing. The person at the bottom, at the gate area there, at the bottom of White Face before you start the main part of the climb said to turn around if we see the school bus coming down the hill. I guess that means the mountain is shutting down and they’re basically evacuating the mountain. So we start climbing this thing and about half way up, not even, maybe a third of the way up it starts billowing snow. We’re like in the middle of a blizzard, under dressed, climbing. And I’m thinking to myself,”Okay well, maybe we’re okay now. I’m shivering and I’m still freezing, but when we turn around we're going to be going much faster and we're going to be really, really cold.” So this was not looking good and then we saw the school bus. So we turned around and we had to and I was ready to anyway at that point. Absolutely shivering, completely frozen, rode back to the rental house and it had to be the most severe hypothermia I’ve ever experienced. I sat in front of the fireplace there for two hours just trying to thaw myself out. I was shivering uncontrollably for maybe an hour after I got back to the place. So that definitely cut my ride short and the group that I was with.

Andrew: Hey guys, we’re going to throw this out to the I Am TriDot Facebook group. Excited to hear from you because I trust there are going to be some great stories here on reasons and ways that your training was cut short by something out of the ordinary happening to you during a training session.

Main Set: On to the main set. Going in 3…2…1…

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Andrew: Well we can’t always have beautiful sunny days with perfect temperatures and favorable wind. Some training sessions it’s hot outside. Sometimes it’s windy. Sometimes it’s just weathery, and sometimes it’s just cold. So today we are tackling how to train most effectively when the temperatures plunge, but the training schedule is still heated up. So B.J., Matt, you know the fall and winter weather an athlete will face is heavily contingent upon where they live and what the chilly times of year are like. Our listeners are spread all over the world and just the three of us are spread across the United States. So even amongst the three of us, winter looks very different. So what does your training look like when it gets into the winter time? So Matt, we’ll start with you in New Jersey. What does your winter training look like?

Matt: Yeah, winter training I mean here just weather wise we’ll get some snow, we’ll get a few bigger storms. We’ll have high temps usually 20-30s you know, low temps 10s-20s. So for here I can train outside if I would like, but I guess one might say I’ve become soft and I don’t do a lot of my training outside especially on the bike, but I prefer to say that I train inside because it’s more effective.

Andrew: Yeah.

Matt: So when it comes to training, winter training here in New Jersey for me it’s running outside because I’m used to doing that and you can very effectively do that in nearly all conditions unless it’s a full scale blizzard. Biking I do almost all inside if it’s winter and then swimming, if you’re in New Jersey it’s here in a pool. There are no outdoor pools that are open now and open water swimming is silly at this time. Too cold.

Andrew: I get that. I believe that. B.J. Leeper, for you up in Montana a little bit farther north, a little bit closer to our Canadian and Washintonian and northern most athletes, what does winter training lookalike for you guys in Montana?

B.J.: Yeah it’s not too much different than that honestly. I am kind of the same way with the bike. I tend to do a lot of my rides on the trainer just for convenience, but also just for consistency and my cut point—and I’m probably the same. I might be getting a little soft, but my cut point tends to be about 40 degrees. If it’s below 40, no thanks. I could ride on the bike. I actually just picked up a gravel bike andI have been doing a little bit more riding outdoors when it has been colder, but I still tend to stay inside if it’s below 40. I do enjoy running outside and we’re far enough north west here that we do get a lot of snow, but in between the snow I still love to run outside. So I don’t give that up. I’ve also taken up Nordic skiing or cross country skiing, classic skiing for those that are familiar.

Andrew: That’s awesome.

B.J.: So I like to supplement my running with that in the winter. It’s kind of a fun little hobby I’ve picked up since I’ve moved up this way. But yeah, the winter months are fun. It’s different, but it's exciting nonetheless.

Andrew: B.J. I have always wanted to try kind of Nordic skiing, cross country skiing. Like when I see it on the Olympics, I don’t know. There’s something about it just attracts me. Like most people want to go to a ski resort and ski and snowboard and I’ve told my wife multiple times like, I’ve always wanted to tryNordic skiing. So I’ll have to fly your way one of these winters and have you show me the ropes of Nordic skiing.

B.J.: Yeah it’s great. Actually, funny story. One of my son’s friends, we just found out she’s up in this area and she used to be an Olympic biathlete where the athletes ski and shoot. Yeah, that’s just the culture up in this area that I wasn’t familiar with prior to, but it's pretty cool.

Andrew: So I’ll start with this question. We know with training in the heat our body sweats, it loses salt, our core temperature rises, and sometimes we just can’t hit the same paces that we can in nicer temperatures. We’re familiar with what our body does and goes through training in the heat. When it comes to the cold, biologically what is happening to our bodies and how will it affect our ability to train? Matt, what do you think here?

Matt: Yeah, I’m no doctor like B.J. but I do know that you have different muscles, tendons, and ligaments you need to warm up more, possibly indoors at first just to get the blood flowing and to kind of limber up. It’s tough to do speed work outdoors since you risk pulling muscles or getting injured in some other way. Plus the muscles just aren’t as warm and the neurons don’t fire as quickly. So back when I was in high school growing up in Connecticut, I remember my coach would talk about how it was tough to train as a sprinter during the winter. Distances runners it was fine and I was a distance runner because we weren’t pushing the limits of speed. We were just instead focusing on zones 2 through 4 maybe, maybe 5 without issue. But when you’re a sprinter and you're maxing out like that it’s really, really tough to do when it’s 15 degrees outside.

Andrew: No that totally makes sense. B.J.as our doctor here on the podcast, everything Matt saying make sense. Is he tracking right?

B.J.: Yeah absolutely.

Matt: Yes!

B.J.: And king of the nerve response is kind of one of the interesting things. It’s for the same reason we utilize cold and cryotherapy in treatment for pain is because the cold actually slows the conduction velocity of the nerve impulse. So it slows the pain signal that’s being sent to the brain, but the main thing physiologically that happens when our body senses cold is that we get this sympathetic response which is basically like our fight or flight response. So when that happens it’s the same response that happens you now if you get anxious or stressed or different things like that. There’s a scenario where your body creates a vasoconstriction of the vessels in your skin, arms, and legs. So it’s thinking, “Okay, this is a dire situation so we’re going to move all the blood from the extremities and the outer surface of the skin and we’re going to bring it to the torso to protect our vital organs, our heart and lungs, and such.” Because your system diverts the blood away from your extremities, like Matt said, it can make it harder to get your arms and legs moving in that way. So it’s definitely harder when you’re cold just because of the blood flow, the nerve conduction, the nerve impulse. And then like Matt kind of alluded to before in his story, you know if you get cold enough, you’ll start to have these nervous impulses sent to the muscles to generate extra metabolic heat which is in essence shivering. So when we get cold enough the body starts to figure out hey this is a dire situation. We need to start warming up the body somehow and then you start to shiver and then your muscles just are not functioning like they normally would.

Andrew: So B.J., if we’re starting to shiver in a workout, and maybe not at first you know because when you first head out the door and start a workout in the cold I mean your body is cold and hasn’t warmed up yet. So once we’ve warmed up, we’ve started our workout and if we find ourselves mid workout starting to shiver, is that a sign that we maybe need to head indoors and take care of ourselves?

B.J.: Yeah, absolutely. I think the one thing we don’t always think about with running in the cold or doing any workout in the cold is the fact that we are still sweating. The body is still losing heat in that way and trying to cool itself internally and it’s what happens—we’ll get into this with clothing—but it’s what happens with how we’re taking care of that sweat. If the sweat is still hanging around on our bodies and we’re getting that cool air, it’s going to further decrease our body temperature and once your body is responding in that way with shivering or various ways that we try to protect ourselves in that scenario, it’s definitely time to get warm.

Andrew: Matt, in that story that you told, you know, where you guys were biking up that mountain and you went up, you turned around when you saw the school bus. How long were you actually outdoors for that workout before you were—because you said it took you an hour in front of the fireplace to really stop shivering. How long were you out there in the elements before that?

Matt: Too long. Way too long. It really was kind of silly and we had a group of maybe eight of us that rode out to White Face and I think it was maybe three of the people turned—maybe it was six of us actually. I think three, about half the group, turned back before we even reached the mountain and then another person turned back at the very early part of the mountain. Then I think it's just me and one other that had climbed up to about a third of the way up and we were really the foolish ones in this case that should have just cut our losses and gone home. But I really wanted to get a good weekend of training in so I pushed it and in the end it was really not a good decision. The total time it was probably about, maybe two hours.

Andrew: Yeah. So you, type A triathlete, much like B.J. in the pool with his little skanky jammers. Similar story there which is “I’ve got to get this workout in. I’m going to see it through.” That does not surprise me Matt knowing your personality that you were one of the last remnant to turn back in the cold. Another thing I know, I know that hydration is just of the utmost importance when we train in warm to hot conditions. In writing up my questions for this show, I had the thought. You know, we still sweat in the cold, B.J. you just mentioned that, particularly under all the layers that we can sometimes wear. So it made me curious as to whether or not hydration strategy changes in the winter time from the summer time or when it’s nice outside even. So I reached out to our good friend Andy Blow from Precision Hydration and here is what Andy has to say about hydrating in colder weather.

Andy Blow: In the summer when we’re outside training hard we can see the sweat pouring off ourselves and hydration is obviously a huge topic at the forefront of our minds. But in the winter just because it's not obvious that we’re losing fluid when we are training doesn’t mean that the issues around hydration go away completely. This is especially true if you're training outside doing long sessions in lots of layers and in cold, dry air which also takes moisture away from the body and it also applies massively if we shift to a high volume of training indoors where the heat and humidity can be just as bad as they are in the summer months. So there are a few things to bear in mind when it comes to hydration for winter training. The first is a critical one. It’s turn up to each of your key training sessions properly hydrated. This is a year round thing and it definitely doesn't go away in the winter. That means having an appreciation for preloading if you're training particularly hard or particularly long which means taking a very strong electrolyte drink in the hour or two before the start because this hydrates you way, way better than just drinking plain water alone. Generally speaking in the winter it’s easier to listen to your body and respond to the signals of thirst when you’re training because the overall swat losses are likely to be lower with cooler temperatures. However, that gets counteracted a little bit by the fact that in cold conditions your thirst instinct can be blunted. So you have to still consciously think about drinking, making sure if you’re out on the bike you've got drinks available or if you're doing long run sessions that you’ve got a way of carrying some fluid with you to keep yourself topped up. Of course, we don’t really need necessarily as many electrolytes in the winter if we're not sweating as heavily, but still adding some sodium too your drinks for your bigger and longer sessions particularly if you’re wrapped up with a lot of layers or training indoors, it still matters. So in summary, hydration is always going to be a bigger issue in the summer, but it’s not an issue that completely goes away in the winter. So be aware of what you need and do all those sensible things to keep yourself topped up.

Andrew: Some great info from Andy there. Thanks so much Andy for sending us that little nugget from your research and wisdom. So B.J., Matt as we move into talking about how to train properly in cold weather, before heading out the door for a training session in the cold, what do we need to be aware of? What preparations do we need to make to be ready to rock and roll in colder weather?

Matt: Yeah, I think the main categories here are really layering, making sure that you’re properly dressed, safety, and being weather aware. So just knowing how that's going to impact—Maybe it's your shoe selection or just in general how is the weather going to impact what it is that you're doing?

B.J.: Yeah, I agree. I mean, the weather, it’s one thing to be cold. It’s another thing to be cold and wet. So if there’s precipitation that’s a big factor in the choices of what you’re going to make with your clothing. Safety like said. The surface you’ll be running on. It’s different if it’s just cold and dry versus cold and wet where there’s snow on the ground, ice on the ground, various things like that. It’ll dictate what kind of footwear you wear and also the route you take. There’s a lot of different factors, but yeah, the clothing you choose and the safety in doing your outdoor training is definitely the things you need to prepare for.

Andrew: Yeah, so layering, safety, being weather aware, equipping ourselves with the right equipment. Those seem to be the most important things for us to cover today. So let’s start with layers. Let’s talk about layering up correctly. You know, it's something that you mentioned is key to enjoying a winter training session. So let’s learn how to equip ourselves properly for each temperature range. And let’s go swim, bike, run here because it’s a little different for the sports. So on the swim, I mean I’m asking out of ignorance here. There might not be anything to consider. There might be a lot to consider. For swim sessions in colder weather, what should we consider in terms of layering and equipping ourselves properly.

Matt: Pretty much it depends on where you live of course, but where I am outdoor swimming in the winter is nonexistent. Indoor swimming is the only thing that you’ll really do. Outdoor pools are closed. Open water swim– it might even be iced over. Even if it’s not, no matter what you're wearing, if it's 30-something, 40-something degree water it’s cold and then when you get out if the air temperature is even colder than that, I mean, you are freezing.

Andrew: Yeah.

Matt: I do own a neoprene cap and I’ll wear that and my wetsuit when swimming in 50-something degree water. I pretty much draw the line there. Even 50-something degree water you’ve got to pretty much twist my arm to get me in there. The pool is a much more effective place to train during the winter here in New Jersey.

B.J.: Yeah, same. Here I actually live just right off of Flathead Lake up here in the Flathead Valley just west of the Continental Divide and really there’s only two months out of the year that you’re really swimming in the lake which is July and August. At the peak the water temperature is up to maybe 68-69 degrees and at that time of year it feels refreshing, it feels good. But just like Matt, you typically are not swimming outdoors outside of those months and like Matt, I’ve swam in cold water and the neoprene cap. It's just the layers you can protect your head there with; the full sleeve wetsuit if you're swimming outside. We used to vacation in the summertime, kind of late summer, up around Lake Superior off the north shore on the Minnesota side and I would love to get in the water and swim up there, but even at the end of August it was still just barely bearable with a full sleeve wetsuit.

Andrew: I thought that was the case. I wanted to ask the question. I wanted to bring up the point just in case maybe there was something that you guys know as northerners that I don’t know as a Texan. Maybe our Floridians on the Gulf Coast or some folks in some milder weather are able to train open water outside, but it doesn’t sound like there’s any talking points we need to cover in terms of how to effectively train in the cold in open water.

Matt: No, it might be another little segment if you wanted to bring in an ultra marathon swimmer on or something or somebody who’s done Norseman and talk about how you could swim in those cold temps. But especially like those ultra and marathon swimmers, they do non-wetsuit swims when it’s 40-something degrees in the water. That’s a whole nother world.

Andrew: Yes. Yep it sure is another world and that’s probably why it’s also not worth us fully covering here because really—and it’s what you said Matt. It's going to be tough to do your training session effectively in water that cold. So if you’re trying to train for a triathlon race, it’s just worth finding an indoor facility where you can do the session correctly. The only reason why you would want to expose yourself to water that cold, wetsuit or not, is because you are preparing for an event that was going to be that cold, right? So if you don't have a race coming up where the water is going to be that cold, there’s no reason for you to put yourself in water temperatures where you can't really do an effective training session as opposed to going to the pool. So, is that right? Am I right in assessing that?

Matt: Definitely.

Andrew: Moving on to bike training in the winter time. Just in terms of layering—now this is where you can ride in 0 degree, 10 degrees, 20 degrees, and you can ride in 40 degrees, 50 degrees. Either way it’s chilly and it’s cold, but for all those temperature ranges you’ve got to layer differently. So Matt, talk to us. How do we layer for a cold bike ride?

Matt: Yeah, it can be done. I used to ride outdoors a lot during the winter when I was living in Jersey City and I had a bunch of friends in Holbrook and we’d be riding outdoors every Thursday morning, a lot of the time Tuesday morning and then on the weekends even during the winter. So I have a lot of experience with outdoor winter riding even in temperatures under 10 degrees. That was back when I first got started with the sport. I didn’t have a trainer, but then even after I did get a trainer I still rode outdoors because I couldn’t get myself to ride on the trainer for more than 20 minutes before I was bored out of my mind. But, everything changed after I got structured training and a power meter. The training was no longer mind numbing. Instead it was almost like a game to hit the numbers.

Andrew: Yeah.

Matt: I also noticed that the quality of the rides I would do outdoors was pathetic compared to the quality of my indoor rides. I mean, I’d go for a 90 minute outdoor session and find that my indoor sessions were way better even if they were only 60 minutes. Just the effectiveness of it. All the gear that you’re wearing, the potholes, the stop signs, the ice patches, the snow banks. It all negatively impacts the effectiveness of the workout. So bottom line for me is stay indoors if it’s colder than about 40-45 degrees. I mean, that all said. If you do—if you must—if you must go outside, maybe you don’t have a trainer or maybe you’ve got a couple screws loose.

Andrew: Maybe you just like it. Yeah maybe you just like it.

Matt: Maybe you just like it then I do have some clothing tips for you though. Some layering tips. So one thing to note right out the gate here is that you do move faster on the bike then you do when you’re running. Especially if you’re going downhill, you’re moving a lot faster. So you need to wear more on the bike than you would on a run in the same temperatures. So 40-55-ish degrees you want to make sure your knees are covered. Usually for me it’s tights, maybe knee warmers. Long sleeve kit, arm warmers, warm socks, toe covers, you might even go full shoe covers, light to medium gloves are good, thin hat under your helmet, neck warmer of some sort, and some sort of sunglasses. That’s what I would recommend for that temperature range. Then once you start getting colder to 25-40 degrees, like right around that freezing temperature: thermal tights, knee warmers, thick socks, maybe two pairs of socks if you don’t have a thick enough pair of socks, full neoprene shoe covers, a balaclava, a warm hat under your helmet, three layers on the chest give or take; I’d recommend a base layer, arm warmers, and then a long sleeve kit over that. You might even want one more on top of that. Neck warmer or gator and then sun glasses or something to cover your eyes because the cold air when you’re riding it’ll make your eyes water.

Andrew: Yeah.

Matt: It’ll make it hard to even see. Plus especially if there’s snow on the ground then a lot of the time it reflects up into your eyes and it makes it hard to see. You could even get—I mean if it’s really sunny out you could actually even get sunburned from that. And then 10-25 degrees basically just throw everything you’ve got at it. You want wear—

Andrew: Layers, layers, layers, layers!

Matt: You want to take out your entire wardrobe. So layer up. I mean really just take what I just described and really just add like a layer to everything basically. Then under 10 degrees, you should reconsider your life.

Andrew: I agree with you. I agree with you under 25 degrees I think you should reconsider your life, but I understand that I’m a weak southerner. What I’ve found, Matt, just in my experience I think those are great recommendations. I’ve found for me if I start a cold weather ride, if I start off comfortable I’m going to end up being too hot once I get moving. If I start chilly I’m going to end up being comfortable when I’m actually riding. If I start just cold shivering I didn’t layer enough and I’m going to remain cold shivering. So that’s just kind of a loose rule of thumb.

Matt: Yeah, great reference.

Andrew: I always regret it when I head out the door for a chilly ride and I’m comfortable when I start. I’m happy for those first five minutes and then after that I end up regretting how many layers I put on. A very recent example is from a few days ago at the time we’re recording this podcast. It’ll be a week or so ago by the time this podcast airs. I met up with some local Dallas area TriDot athletes and we went out to Texas Motor Speedway and we rode for the remote nationals race that USA Triathlon put on through Remote Racing and when we started our ride it was in the high 40s, low 50s temperature and that was just enough for—some of the guys chose to just go in their tri kits. Some of the guys put on a few layers. I did arm warmers and a long sleeve jersey and full finger gloves and I was comfortable when I started and ended up being probably a little bit too warm during the last 15-20 miles of that race. I could have gone with a little bit less, but that’s always been my experience. So B.J. for you, you heard everything Matt said there with his temperature ranges and recommendations. You heard a little bit about my experience. What do you have to add to the conversation about layering for a bike ride?

B.J.: Yeah and I think Matt hit a great list there. He covered a lot of them. I think that you always hear the motto “There’s no such thing as bad weather, just bad clothes.” So it is one of those things that if you’re prepared and if you’ve got the clothing covered you could be okay in a lot of different situations. So I definitely second the notion that you need to plan ahead, be able to peel off layers if you can, but also to have well ventilated, moisture wicking base layers. So those are going to be your wool polyester blend garments. The cotton long sleeved shirts are not great wicking.

Andrew: No.

B.J.: They’re just going to soak and sit on your body which I learned that the hard way early in my winter training career, but those are the big things. If you can keep the wicking of the moisture away from the body, hands and feet warm, you’re on the right track.

Andrew: Yeah, I love that you brought in base layers because they are crucial to layering properly. I found very early in my cycling career a lot of manufacturers of cycling apparel will have built into their websites temperature ranges for all their garments. So it lets you know like, hey if you’re going to be cycling in this temperature to this temperature you should buy this jacket or that jacket. And one I’m going to give a shoutout to, when I was new to the sport my first cycling jacket and my first couple cycling base layers were from a brand called Pactima. It’s a Colorado based cycling apparel company and they have—you literally can search by temperature range and click on okay, I do most of my winter cycling in this temperature range and they recommend for you, okay for that you need this base layer with this jacket or this jersey. I found that just invaluable as a new cyclist that just didn’t really know, right, what to do. Then you learn over time what to do and you get things from other brands. But that’s definitely something to consider is there are multiple clothing manufacturers out there that kind of have guides like that to help you out as well. Let’s move on to the run because Matt like you said, the run is a little bit different. You know, we generate more wind when we cycle. We generate less wind when we run. We generate more heat when we run. So Matt, talk to us about layering for a cold weather run.

Matt: Yeah, a lot easier than the bike because you’re not moving as fast, but scientifically ideal endurance running temperatures are between 45 and 55 degrees. You’ll likely in that range have a long sleeve on, but you don’t need much more than that. Maybe a light pair of gloves, a light hat or a neck gaiter. But then when you get down closer to freezing, 30-45 degrees, you’ll want a long sleeve, a hat, gloves, neck gaiter. You can still maybe go shorts, but many would opt for tights or running pants at this point. When you get really pretty darn cold, 15-30 degrees, two to three layers on top probably leaning more towards three layers if it’s down towards 15 degrees and then a warm hat, warm gloves, maybe even ski gloves. I’ve done that many times before. A neck gaiter, tights, maybe some warmer, thicker pants. Under 15 degrees I would just bundle up baby. You might look like a stuffed animal walking out of your house, but you can still do it.

B.J.: Yeah for me here when I run my arms need to be able to move. Speaking of bundling up, I think of the Christmas Story, Ralphy or Ralphy’s little brother where he can’t put his arms down. That’s kind of my thought. If I’m too layered up on the run you know again, you want to be warm, but I also want to be able to move so I find that if I can get good layers that are especially movable around the arms that helps me and then a good moisture wicking hat is key here. It’s funny because I was thinking about this the other day and it’s such a big misconception that my mom always used to tell me like, “Get your hat on! You lose all the body heat from your body out from your head.” And it used to be this—

Andrew: Is that not true, B.J.? Is that false?

B.J.: No it’s, it’s—

Andrew: Have I been living a lie?

B.J.: No it’s not true and it’s funny because…

Andrew: What:?

B.J.: …I discovered this years ago where I was wanting to find that information out and did the research and it’s not true. It’s all about surface area exposed. So you don’t necessarily lose any more heat from your head than you do any other part of your body that’s exposed, skin surface area. But the tendency is when we’re outside we’re bundled up everywhere else, but our head is exposed. So in those situations, yes you are losing most of your heat from your head because your head is exposed, but it’s no different than if your head was covered and your legs were exposed. You know what I mean? It’s just a matter of what skin area is exposed. So they’ve actually done the research on it. People used to throw out numbers like you lose 50% of your body body heat through your head. The reality is it’s only close to 10% which relative to the actual area of skin that’s exposed it’s equivalent. So it’s no different than any other portion of your body. But at the same time because that is a tendency to have that area exposed to the cold, you want to make sure that can be covered as well.

Andrew: B.J., my whole world has just been absolutely rocked. I need to– I feel like I need to sit down. I feel like I need to reevaluate some things in my life. I’m wondering what else have I been taught that’s a total lie.

B.J.: I know.

Andrew: If that wasn’t true—yeah, that one’s going to—after this recording is over I’m just going to have to sit and stir and marinate on that one for a little bit because…

B.J.: Rethink your life.

Matt; And maybe even make a myth busting episode. That could be a good one.

Andrew: Yeah.

Matt: B.J. would have to be on there to help clear out some more of these myths.

Andrew: Apparently. Apparently so. Maybe we’ll get to that sooner than later because now I’m curious what other myths are out there that I’ve held for a long time. I’ve found for me—again, I love running in the winter time. I don’t enjoy cycling in the winter time. I think all three of us expressed that. I really like layers that are easy to adjust on the fly. Things like arm warmers. Things like—I have my running jacket that I really love to use is by Solomon Running and it’s a very thin running jacket, but it does so much good to get your skin out of the cold and then once you’ve warmed up or you’ve heated up– what I would do a lot is I’ll run from my house down to a local track and so it’s a mile down to the track and so I consider that mile to the local track my warmup run. Then once I’m at the track doing whatever my intervals are for the day by then I’ve warmed up some. So I might ditch that jacket. I might ditch the arm warmers. I might ditch some of those layers I put on because now I’m running zone 4 pace, I’m generating a lot of heat and when I’m done with the zone 4 and I’ve got to zone 2 it back to the house I’ll put those layers back on. So I really like layers that are easy to adjust on the fly. Sometimes a lot of those running jackets are really packable. They can pack into their own pocket and you can throw them in your shorts pocket. So yeah, Matt, your temperature ranges that you gave Matt are right in line with my experience. When I throw on the tights, I’ve learned for me under 40 degrees I throw on the tights. If I throw on tights and it’s over 40 degrees I’m happy at first, but then I’m going to end up overheating on the run, right?

Matt: Yeah, definitely second that on the flexibility of it; arm warmers, knee warmers I love that. A jacket also that I have for cycling has these little zippers that go down the sides, down the arms, and down in the armpit area so you can open them up when you want more ventilation and it helps to cool you off, but you can still keep the jacket on. Then of course it has a main zipper down the front so you get a lot of flexibility in terms of how warm you want this jacket to be plus the arm warmers and leg warmers for sure. A couple other things to add to, I mean this is all very personal so these recommendations one person to the next it's going to vary somewhat.

Andrew: Yeah.

Matt: Some people might just run colder than somebody else and somebody might run hot. So you’ll always have to tweak these and move them up a little, move them down a little depending on your personal experiences of course. But everyone’s tolerance is a little different and your tolerance also going into a cold season versus coming out of a cold season is also very different. So 50 degrees--

Andrew: That’s so true.

Matt: Well like 50 degrees for me in let's say October feels a lot colder than 50 degrees in March. 50 degrees in March it feels like, “Oh man! Get out the flip flops.” But going into the fall it hits 50 and you’re like, “Oh man! How much colder can it get?” It’s funny how the body works that way, but you're acclimated.

Andrew: That is so true. Yeah that is absolutely true. I’m glad you said that because it’s an adjustment, right? You’re adjusting to that cold weather and then on the other side you're adjusting to the weather getting warmer. I’ll say this too. I know it also depends on where you live because again growing up in 100% humidity Florida and living in drier Dallas, 40 degrees in Florida felt colder than 40 degrees does in Dallas. So if I’m visiting family for the holidays and it’s 40 degrees in Florida, I might need to bundle up a little bit more than I need to in 40 degrees in drier Dallas. So that’s another area where these ranges are suggestions and you have to kind of experiment to see exactly what fits for you. So now that we’ve talked extensively about layering correctly for the task at hand, let’s talk about navigating certain conditions. The winter can often bring wet roads, icy roads, snow covered roads, etcetera. What do we need to know to safely and successfully navigate the outdoor conditions we can face? B.J., what do you think?

B.J.: Yeah, well specifically when we’re talking about the run, running outside, obviously the road condition is very critical. It's going to dictate what kind of footwear you put on, but the way we run can be impacted, the way we should run can be impacted. So for example, if you’ve got a snowy surface we know that it’s safer to shorten your stride, increase your cadence. It sounds intuitive, but not everybody is aware that running over fresh snow versus packed snow, running over fresh snow is a little bit safer than packed snow. Packed snow tends to get pretty slick, pretty icy. Generally it's been a practice to walk over icy patches than to run over them, but if you're on surface that’s varying like that because of the snow or the ice pack, again you have to consider your footwear. So I tend to throw on some Yak Trax in the winter over my regular shoes. It gives a little extra grip if I know I’m going to be running on those types of surfaces. I have a go-to pair of shoes that are trail shoes, the Saucony Peregrine’s. They’re usually what I subscribe to. They’ve got deeper lugs on the bottom soles and some of them; I don’t have this type, but they have a brand or a model of their shoe that’s actually all Gore-Tex upper. So the entire shoe is waterproof which comes in really handy when we mentioned with the bike sometimes wearing the booties you can find those for wearing over your shoes running as well. I think you have to make sure that you’re considering the surface, your safety, and sometimes it’s just not a good idea, but if you take those measures and prepare, I think you can be okay.

Matt; You know especially running you can definitely prepare pretty well. With cycling it gets a little bit dicey when there is slush and ice and wet and snow and everything on the roads. It’s pretty tricky especially because you’re moving quicker and it’s hard to see what’s coming up especially if it's darker too. So being on your guard is absolutely something that you should heed. During the spring let’s say, you might be out there running on nice clean roads and you’re just taking in the scenery. And that’s fine. You’re looking around and stuff, but during the winter you’ve got to have a much more keen—be paying attention to the road ahead of you. I touched on this during episode 100 too, how to run over ice and things. So the tips I’ll kind of repeat here.

Andrew: Yeah.

Matt: Keep your center of gravity over your foot. Make sure that you're not doing any sudden turns or slowing, stopping, or speeding up. If you’re just allowing your momentum to carry you through an ice patch you can actually run over ice patches. Now if it’s an extended patch maybe you should just chill and just kind of walk across that and make sure you don’t hurt yourself, but if it’s a short little ice patch which is usually how they are, then you can. It’ll take a little practice to just kind of get the hang of it, but you don't try pushing off very hard. You don’t try speeding up, slowing down. You don’t want to turn. You don’t want to do any of that stuff, but you just allow your body just to keep moving forward and you just keep that foot under your center of gravity and it’ll allow you to actually just kind of coast through or over the icy spot. Another thing to note is that there’s less room on the road if there’s snow and ice. So the road basically narrows. Like you and the cars have less space to pass by each other. So just keep aware of that too. I mean looking at the cars that are coming towards you, make sure you're always running on the left hand side of the road, running towards traffic and you can always jump out of the way if you have to because some people obviously are just not paying attention or they’re texting or something.

B.J.: The other thing I just thought of too that’s good to consider is the route you're taking. So whether you’re biking or running even consider the route. If the conditions are really rough especially when you’re out on the run, consider a loop course that you have a way out that rolls by your house every couple miles or something that goes by your car on a loop where if conditions get more severe you have an easy way out versus an out and back where you get stranded. Then the other thing to consider is where is the wind going to be? If you have the ability to change your route up so that you will have the wind at your back on your way home or wherever you’re going back to where you might be most sweaty it’s important to not have the wind directly on you or in your face as you’re at your hottest, sweatiest because that again is going to drop your core temperature quite a bit. So if you can run on the way back with your wind at the back that’s better because you’ll be warmer and hotter at that point.

Andrew: Yeah, also with the loop course, B.J., I’ve done it before where if I’ve gotten out there on a run or bike and I maybe over layered or under layered. If you planned for a loop course or if you can turn your course into a looped course you can circle back by your car, by your house, by your starting point and add a layer, ditch a layer to kind of keep yourself comfortable as opposed to if you plan a pure out and back and you get four miles from home, suddenly you're committed to the layers that you’re wearing. So I know for me, I’m much more likely to do zone 2 stuff outside if the weather is dicey, if the conditions are dicey and there might be some ice or some wet or some snow or some wintery mix that we get here in the Metroplex. I’m much more likely to give it a go out there if it’s just a zone 2 session. I might just decide to abandon the zone 4 stuff that I was supposed to do and just keep that particular run zone 2. You know, better safe than sorry, live to fight another day, not come home injured, kind of mentality. The same winter season that brings colder weather also brings days with less sunlight. So often the outdoor sessions that we do get in are done in the dark. Talk to me about having a safe and effective workout once the sun goes down. Matt, what do you think?

Matt; I’ve done a lot of that. I think I’m like a lot of people, right? We’ve got full time jobs and we’re working in the middle of the day when there’s actually sun and so we’re getting our workouts in either before or after and it’s dark. So for sure had a lot of experience doing that. I did get hit once by a car. It was at dusk. It wasn’t dark yet, but it was at dusk and I was just riding along legally. Nothing I did was wrong, but the person just didn’t see me and they were taking a left hand turn across my path and they didn't see me and they just t-boned me. I went upon the hood of the car, got flung from the hood of the car. I was disconnected from the bike. The bike got cracked actually, but I was actually okay. I had some road rash and some bruises, but it was a scary situation. So I often don’t. I’ve got two kids now and a family so I don’t go out at dark as much especially if it’s riding a bike. I’m safer now. I don’t do it as much. I rely on the trainer not just because it’s cold out and it gets pretty miserable when you’re riding outdoors and because it’s more effective on the trainer, but because of the safety issue. If you are going to ride outside though, or run outside, then light yourself up like a Christmas tree.

B.J.: Yeah, I agree. It’s funny. I used to train with a bunch of guys when we were living back in Kansas City and when we’d get together early in the morning or late at night; typically it was early in the morning when we’d try to get our workouts in. So it was dark even in the winter time. It was almost this game to one up each other with who could have the brightest head lamp or brightest light. So it’s like, how many lumens could you provide. Just like Matt said, light yourself up like a Christmas tree. You can never overdo this as far as reflective gear and lamps, whatnot. I think to be very careful if you're relegated to running at those times where it is dark, you’ve just got to be very careful, but that’s also a time especially at night where if there is moisture if you're in your winter months that’s when some of the water on the road will start to freeze. So you’ve got to be very cautious there outside of just the visibility. Just understanding the surface area you might be running on can be completely changing during those moments. So if you must run at night when it’s darker, when it’s getting colder, just be very cautious.

Andrew: Yeah, I certainly try to light up everything that I can. I’ve got—I like wearing brighter apparel. When I’m shopping for those running layers, you know, the tights are mostly black, but if it’s a winter top or a winter shirt or arm warmers I always go for the most colorful thing I can find and the most reflective thing I can find knowing that a lot of those winter sessions are done in the dark. Several people like the head lamps that clip onto a hat or are already on a band that just go around your head. Those are great options. There’s tons of them out there. I personally have kind of a little handheld running flashlight that’s put out by Nathan. It’s like the Nathan Torch something or other and I really like that because it kind of just straps onto your hand and you don’t really have to hold it. It’s just there, but I've had more close calls with vehicles running than I have cycling ironically. So when I’m approaching an intersection and I can tell, or if I’m unsure even if a car has seen me or not having that on my hand kind of gives me the ability to flash it at them just to kind of make sure, “Hey, see this moving light? See this person running here?”

B.J.: It’s like a lightsaber.

Andrew: Yeah, almost. Yeah.

B.J.: A true light saver.

Andrew: Yeah, great points on making sure you're visible, making sure you’re lit up and being able to see the road to make sure there’s no ice or anything. I’ve found in the Texas summers that when the temperature gets into the high 90s and low 100s, I can just no longer effectively do my training outside. I can try to be tough. I can try to brave it, but there’s really no point because that training session is just totally ruined by the temperature. I just can’t hold the right intensity and do the right training right. So by then, it’s either do the session before the sun comes up, before it gets too hot, or do it indoors. Is there a winter equivalent to that? As in the temperature is just—there’s a certain set of conditions or certain point where it’s too cold and you’re just not going to be able to do your workout effectively outdoors?

Matt: For the run, I think you can almost always do it effectively outdoors. I think the only case is when fresh snow had just hit the ground and it hasn’t even been cleared yet or everything is just iced over because maybe you had warm weather right after a snow storm, it melted everything and now there’s water everywhere, and then it had like a flash freeze overnight and you're in the first thing in the morning running and there’s just ice everywhere. Like those are probably the only two cases where I could see where it might not be safe to do a run workout, but on the bike I kind of mentioned it a couple times already here, but under around 40 to 45 degrees it’s just so much more effective to do it indoors. It’s more enjoyable. It’s safer. So I’d say once it hits around freezing or 40 degrees, like don’t even bother going outdoors on the bike. That’s just me.

Andrew: B.J., I’ll kind of give you a follow up there because I agree with Matt there perfectly. I think you probably do as well, but just biologically is there a temperature where it’s just dangerous frankly to go out and try to do your session outside. Or if we’re layered appropriately can we workout in any temperature?

B.J.: Yeah, I mean, I think everything we’ve hit on prior kind of speaks to that where I think there’s ways to get it done and I think it depends on your intent of your training, right? So some guys they just want to break the mundane of winter indoor training and they want to get out. I mean, there’s a different culture up here where I live where maybe triathlon is not as prevalent, but there's tons of fat bikes riding in the snow, there’s gravel riding, there’s all kinds of cycling where guys love it when it gets cold, when it gets snowy and they’ve got the gear for it. They’ve got the bike for it. So it’s a different type of workout. A different type of training and sometimes it's nice to break it up. So I agree with Matt though. I mean, from a triathlon training perspective where you’re at for cycling. For me if it’s below 40 I tend to stay inside. I tend to love running outside especially in the winter. It takes a little bit more time and takes a ew more layers, more clothes, but I don’t know. For me maybe it’s just because I grew up in the northern Midwest, Minnesota, grew up in Iowa, spent a lot of time in Minnesota. South Dakota is where my wife is from. So there’s just something nostalgic about getting back from a cold weather run, getting back inside, warming up. It just feels like you’ve accomplished even more. I don’t know. There’s just something that’s satisfying about that when you’re running in the cold. So I tend to love being outside when it's safe.

Matt: And I didn't know there were any people in South Dakota let alone Montana.

B.J.: I know. I found one. I found the one in South Dakota.

Andrew: So some athletes actually really enjoy indoor workouts. Some have mixed feelings about it and some folks just abhor the idea of doing a training session confined to the concrete prison of a pain cave or gym. What tips do you guys have for making indoor workouts more enjoyable? Matt, what do you think?

Matt: I’ve mentioned it before. A power meter and having structure were the two things that just completely changed it for me. Having some sort of goal, something to focus on, something to stay engaged with, and having a number there to look at that told me that I am working the appropriate intensity was key. Before that I just had perceived effort and I had heart rate, but heart rate is a lagging indicator. It doesn’t really work great. Perceived effort is like “Okay, am I actually pedaling at 8/10 or is it really, am I pushing it 9/10? And I’m not going to be able to sustain it for the entire effort. Or maybe I’m only pushing at 7/10 and I’m not getting everything out of myself.” But the power meter was like, alright boom. Right there in the number it’s telling me how hard I’m working. So that was really key. And then, you know, here’s other things too like Rouvy or Zwift which it’s just so much more enjoyable to ride in a world where you can see things and you’re in this virtual world or this reality of Rouvy. It’s very cool. So I’ve used both. Then some people that I know will watch movies and shows, but I’ve never really gotten into that. I think if you were going to be doing some sort of really long like zone 2 ride then maybe you could do that, but for me there’s always enough focus in the workout itself and enough structure that I can’t allow my mind to drift too much and watch something. I’m trying to nail the workout and achieve a high TrainX score and TriDot, the workouts are much more structured and focused and have so much more purpose than some of the training programs I’ve seen. So that case doesn’t come up very often for me.

Andrew: What’s helped me workout indoors more than I used to and helped me enjoy it is the entertainment is key and so I’m like you Matt. I’m a big fan of Zwift. I’ve just now started dabbling with Rouvy as so much of our Remote Racing is going to be done through Rouvy and I have really enjoyed that platform so far; so having that in front of me. Cycling indoors and even treadmilling indoors that’s my music time. That’s my podcast time. That's where I consume Audible stimuli like that, but I’ll also say to invest in things to make yourself more comfortable whether it’s fans placed in appropriate spots. A lot of our athletes know that I recently invested in one of the rocker boards that you can put under your trainer that just kind of rocks you from side to side, adds a little bit of motion. There’s some expensive options out there to do that. There are some cheaper options out there to do that and there's some DIY options out there if you're handy that help you do that and that has helped my indoor riding significantly to feel a little bit more like what it’s like to cycle outdoors and so just getting the proper towels to drape over your bike. Getting a fan to clip onto my treadmill to just have air moving while I’m running on the treadmill. Anything you can do to increase the comfort level. I’ve got some speakers now in m pain cave so when I’m pumping music in there it’s not just coming through my computer. It’s nice—full sound with my music that’s playing.So I’ll tell people that. To invest in your pain cave setup almost like you would invest in your outdoor setup because if you’re going to train quite a bit indoors and you want to nail those sessions, it’s worth investing in just a little bit. So B.J., what about you? What are some things that you've done to make those indoor sessions more enjoyable?

B.J.: Yeah I agree. When you’re relegated to winter training, for me it’s about five to six months of the year you’re going to be indoors for a lot of your cycling training just because of the weather outside. So I think you embrace it, invest in your pain cave. Put some TV’s up, fans, invest in your equipment there. Just like you guys I kind of drug my heels on Zwift and some of the online training platforms like that, but then way back in the day I had done some beta testing with Trainer Road and I thought it was kind of interesting and then I heard about Zwift and drug my heels on it and then tried it and ended up liking it. Now I’ve been really enjoying Rouvy, just all these different virtual training platforms have made it a lot more interesting like playing a game almost. But it’s funny because my wife is a big runner and she always loves to run outside and we got a treadmill a few years ago and we notoriously refer to it as the “dreadmill.” But she just recently told me about this and I didn't realize this. Some of you guys might know this, but treadmills were originally designed in the English prison system as a form of torture back in the early1800s.

Andrew: Really!?

B.J.: So we’ve always kind of jokingly called it the dreadmill in our household, but my wife just told me this fact the other day and I’m like, “I did not know that.” She was like, “Well you know where the dreadmill comes from or why people hate treadmills? Because they used to be a form of torture.” So as much as…

Matt: I’ve called it a dreadmill, but I never knew where it came from.

B.J.: Yeah, so as much as we—

Matt: Blowing our minds today B.J.

B.J.: I know. All these fun facts that—yeah it can be the dreadmill, but if you embrace it and make the most of it, like Matt said, a lot of times your effort can be very repeatable, very consistent with training indoors. So if you embrace it there’s a lot of gains to be made in the winter months.

Andrew: One thing I’ll add is to as much as you can train indoors with people. Sometimes that can be getting plugged in at a local gym. Sometimes that can be going just to a gym and having other people around so while you’re on the treadmill there’s strangers around on the treadmill. Sometimes that can be joining a virtual thing. I know Coach Jeff Raines will organize a lot of Rouvy rides for his athletes and they just get on a video chat and video chat while they’re all training on Rouvy together. One of our TriDot athletes—shoutout to TriDot ambassador Briana Mull—he organizes a Saturday Zwift ride on Saturday mornings that a lot of our athletes faithfully attend. Even for me, my wife does Beach Body workouts. She's not a triathlete, but she likes to stay fit, so we have a TV with our Roku setup in our pain cave and so she will stream her workouts. And so even though she's not training triathlon just having someone else in the pain cave at the same time who is also suffering in a different way, you know, I’ll be on the bike doing a TriDot workout and she'll be in the middle of the room watching the TV, following along for a Beach Body workout and just having both of us there working out. The time passes a lot more quickly and makes it a lot more enjoyable. So find ways to engage with community, get plugged into a community, and make those sessions collaborative instead solo as much as you can.

Cool down theme: Great set everybody. Let’s cool down.

Andrew: Alright, to wrap up our cold weather training show, let’s take a peek at the favorite gear and clothing items that you guys use personally for your cold weather training sessions. We’ve talked a lot about recommendations and how to later and how to equip ourselves to have great sessions outdoors, but I want to hear just specifically for you, what are your top three cold weather related items that you cannot live without training in the cold? B.J. Leeper, we’ll go to you first.

B.J.: A couple of my go-tos I kind of already alluded to one. My Saucony Peregrine trail shoes. I’m probably on my fourth or fifth model of these shoes. I just love them. They give me good traction. There’s a lot trails that I run out here even during the summer months, but in the wintertime they're great. If I couple those with a pair of Yak Trax when it gets real slick with some ice, I still feel good going outside running. So that’s my go-to and then the shoe booties that I have, I can’t remember the brand. I’ve got some shoe booties I’ve had for cycling forever and they’re my go-tos when it gets a little bit cooler. Actually along the lines of the shoe booties, I’ve got a boot warmer. This is kind of another little thing. It’s something to throw the gloves on, the hat on, the boots on. It’s one of those boot warmers that it doesn't fry your gear. It’s a slow warming boot warmer so it dries everything out without making everything all crispy, crusty. That’s kind of a go-to I guess you could say.

Matt: It's a Montana secret right there.

B.J.: It’s a Montana secret. You consider that a gear option for the cold weather. Then for cycling as well, my cycling tights. I’ve got some removable cycling tights I wear. It’s nice because like we were saying, if you get too hot you can take that layer off. They kind of zip up the calf and you can take them off. They only go up your thigh and they work really well. So just an added layer and you can wear them on the run too. That’s the nice thing about a lot of the gear we’re talking about is they can go both ways. If they work for cycling, they can work on the run. So that is the nice thing about that. But those are kind of my go-to things that for sure when it gets cold I don’t live without.

Andrew: Absolutely. And as you were talking about boot warmers, just the word warmer also reminded of—we never on this episode talked about like the Hot Hands warmers. Have you guys used those before? I know Elizabeth James is a massive fan of Hot Hands and she’ll use them in her gloves on chilly days.I had never used them. I had heard her talk about them. I heard other TriDot coaches talk about them. When we were at Ironman Florida this year, 2021 spectating Ironman Florida, ironically in Panama City Beach for Ironman Florida it was chilly and it was windy and we had a really chilly morning and so one of the coaches, Coach Joanna Nami who was with us, she went to Walmart bought everybody some Hot Hands and while we were spectating that was my first time using them. So you shake them, you put them in your gloves and they just generate heat for hours and my hands were really comfortable in my gloves with those Hot Hands. So that’s a viable option for you to use for if you particularly have cold feet, cold hands, and winter weather training you can use those. That’s not on my list, but I was just reminded about those and we haven’t mentioned them yet. My number one winter training item, there’s the triathlon apparel brand called DeSoto Sport. A lot of people are probably familiar with their skin cooler tops and their tri kits and their two piece wetsuits. I use their two piece wetsuit, but they have a winter training top that they call their PolyPro Thermal Top and it’s really cool because it's skin tight. So on the bike, it’s not billowy like a lot of cycling jackets and so you can wear it underneath a jersey. So it’s a great base layer or it just works on its own without a layer over top of it, but it’s skin tight, it’s really comfortable for bike and run. It’s got a little slot built into the wrist for your Garmin to fit into so you can look at your Garmin without having it over a ton of layers or under a ton of layers and the version I have, I actually looked on their website and they don’t have this version anymore, but the version I  have actually has a hood that is skin tight as well that can come up over your ears on those really cold days. But that's just my favorite base layer is that DeSoto Sport PolyProThermal top. Matt, what about you?

Matt: My number one is a neck gaiter. I’ve mentioned it several times already in this podcast. I love a good neck gaiter. It doesn’t even really matter what brand. I haven’t found one that stands out among the others. They’re just great. I love keeping my neck warm. I find that is a key thing for me which actually ties into number two which is a long-sleeved shirt that I got from cross country camp back in the day when I was in high school. They have a higher neck on them so they’re almost like turtle necks, but not and their shirts are also thicker. Like the material is maybe, I don’t know, maybe twice as thick as a normal shirt. The other thing that I like is my pair of Under Armor thermal tights. I’ve had them for probably eight years now and they’re just twice as thick as the other tights that I have. Those other tights are great when it’s maybe 35 degrees or 30 degrees and then I’ll wear these tights when it gets really chilly, down to 30, 25, 20 degrees or less. Then I’ll be wearing those and I’ll definitely wear them when I’m on the bike. Anything to get me a little bit warmer when I’m on the bike.

Andrew: Well that’s it for today folks. A big thanks to Dr. B.J. Leeper and Matt Bach for helping us layer up for those cold weather training sessions. Quick reminder for anyone not using TriDot for their triathlon training, head to tridot.com/psp to participate in this year’s preseason research project. You’ll receive two free months of TriDot training as a qualifying participant. Enjoying the podcast? Have any triathlon questions or topics you want to hear us talk about? Head to tridot.com/podcast and let us know what you're thinking. We’ll have a new show coming your way soon. Until then, Happy Training!

Outro: Thanks for joining us. Make sure to subscribe and share the TriDot podcast with your triathlon crew. For more great tri content and community, connect with us on Facebook, YouTube, and Instagram. Ready to optimize your training? Head to TriDot.com and start your free trial today! TriDot – the obvious and automatic choice for triathlon training.

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