TriDot Podcast .206

One Race, Three Journeys - USA Triathlon Nationals

Intro: This is the TriDot podcast. TriDot uses your training data and genetic profile, combined with predictive analytics and artificial intelligence to optimize your training, giving you better results in less time with fewer injuries. Our podcast is here to educate, inspire, and entertain. We’ll talk all things triathlon with expert coaches and special guests. Join the conversation and let’s improve together.

Andrew Harley: Hey folks! Welcome to the TriDot podcast. Really fun episode today. We have a new installment in our One Race, Three Journeys interview series where we take three athletes that did the exact same race and hear their experience. I always love these conversations and today we are talking about the USA Triathlon Age Group Nationals 2023 in Milwaukee. Our first athlete joining us is Colin Cook. Colin is from Brooklyn, New Hampshire where he is the owner of Peak Recovery and Health Center. He is a seven-time Ironman World Championship finisher. He is the 2020 Ironman Florida overall age group winner and was ranked #1 in the USAT rankings for his age group in 2022. He coaches triathlon through Peak Triathlon Coaching which is powered by TriDot training. Colin, welcome so much to the TriDot podcast.

Colin Cook: Thanks so much for having me.

Andrew: Next up is Emily Knopfle. Emily is the very fast teenage daughter of TriDot coach, Ryan Knopfle. She is based in Orlando, Florida and competes in junior draft-legal races all over the country. She is a member of the SLAP Youth and Junior Tri Team and placed 22nd out of the 70 girls at the National Championships in Milwaukee. Now Emily, you are brand new to the show, but your dad, TriDot coach Ryan Knopfle, just made an appearance on the show a few episodes back. Have you had a chance to listen to your dad on the TriDot podcast yet?

Emily Knopfle: I have not had a chance yet. How’d he do?

Andrew: He did okay. Yeah. I think he was informative, he was helpful, and hopefully our listeners enjoyed learning from him. I know we’ll enjoy hearing from you as well. Completing our athlete trio today is Nolan McKenna. Nolan lives in Wheaton, Illinois and works in health and safety for a manufacturing company. He was a collegiate runner helping North Central College win five national championships. He only very recently decided to give triathlon a shot racing in Milwaukee as his fifth ever triathlon. Nolan, thanks for joining us!

Nolan McKenna: Happy to be here.

Andrew: I'm Andrew the Average Triathlete, Voice of the People and Captain of the Middle of the Pack. As always we'll roll through our warm up question, settle in for our main set conversation, and then wind things down with Vanessa interviewing a TriDot coach on the cool down.

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Warm up theme: Time to warm up! Let’s get moving.

Andrew: It is always nice to discover a new music artist whose songs you enjoy. Sometimes you discover a new artist through the radio, other times it’s through social media, or sometimes it’s through the recommendation of a friend. Colin, Emily, Nolan, let’s be that friend to our listeners today. For today’s warm up question on the podcast episode, what is one band or artist that you listen to when you train, so triathlon specific, that other triathletes may not have heard of? Nolan, you’re up first here. What do you think?

Nolan: Yeah, so I actually don’t always listen to music.

Andrew: Okay.

Nolan: But, so like a lot of the music I do listen to instead of being super like hype up music, is actually like kind of calming music.

Andrew: Yeah.

Nolan: So I would say some music by Shawn James is some of the music I listen to when I train. Kind of inspirational, kind of gets you going, but overall pretty mello, pretty chill.

Andrew: Alright, that’s exactly what we’re here to learn today. I’ve never heard of Shawn James and I’m going to go check it out and see. What is Nolan listening to when Nolan is working out? Emily, over to you. What’s this answer for you?

Emily: Honestly, similar to Nolan, I’m not a big music person. I don’t really listen to music when I work out.

Andrew: I’m asking this question to the wrong panel apparently.

Emily: Apparently. When I’m biking on the trainer, usually I’m just watching a TV show and Zwifting. When I’m running, if I’m in a group I don’t bring my phone, so usually I don’t listen to music.

Andrew: Now, Emily, you’re letting me down here for a specific reason. As the teenager on the show today I was hoping you were going to give us a very trendy answer and have some cool, hip, new artist that us older guys have never heard of before. But that’s okay. We’ll forgive you for it. Colin, my friend, do you listen to music when you train?

Colin: I do listen to music, but I’m going to complete the trio here and be pretty boring about it because I actually have a playlist of probably 100 songs or so that I’ve had the same list for 10+ years for the most part. I’ll add music to it every once in a while, but I literally just go out and put it on repeat and shuffle and just listen to that. But I will throw a name out there, maybe the younger crew I’m sure will be familiar with this, but the Imagine Dragons is a band that I do like to listen to that I had never really heard of but my kids love them. So they’re inspiring to me because my kids enjoy them and it makes me think of them while I’m training as well. They’ve got some pretty good hype and some beat to it. So that works out pretty well for me.

Andrew: Yeah, I can get behind some Imagine Dragons. I’ve got some Imagine Dragons on my workout playlist. That’s for sure. They’ve got some good bangers out there to rock out to. This answer for me, I’m going to throw out a band– I’m kind of a punk rock guy, kind of Blink182 kind of music, a lot of that genre on my workout playlist. There’s a band, they’re a punk rock band called Our Last Night and I admittedly had never heard of them personally. I don’t listen to their actual stuff, but one kind of cool thing they do is they do a lot of covers of other songs. So they’ll take like a rap song or a pop song and they’ll make like a punk rock version of it. So some examples on my workout playlist, they did Anti-Hero by Taylor Swift, As It Was by Harry Styles, Astronaut in the Ocean by Masked Wolf, ABCDFU by GAYLE, You Found Me by The Fray. Last week they’ve dropped that one and that’s an emotional song, but they did a punk rock version. It goes hard enough to put it on a workout playlist. So that’s my answer here is a band called Our Last Night. A lot of your favorite radio hits they take them and really rock out to them and it makes them good songs to work out to in my opinion. They have a whole album where they’ve taken Disney songs. They must have kids because they’ve taken Disney songs and done punk rock versions of a bunch of Disney songs. So check them out. Hopefully you’ll find a couple of their songs useful on your workout playlist. Guys, we’re going to throw this question out to you, our audience, like we always do. Make sure you’re a part of the I AM TriDot Facebook group. Every single Monday when the new episode of the show comes out I ask you, our audience, to answer this question and my panel today wasn’t super into music. So we’re going to see what you, our athletes, have to say here. Let us know in the comments what is a band that you just don’t think other triathletes might have heard of that has some good music for a workout playlist? Can’t wait to see what you have to say.

Main set theme: On to the main set. Going in 3…2…1…

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Andrew: Age Group Nationals is the biggest event of the year for USA Triathlon. USAT pulls out all the stops to put on a classy event with a packed schedule and with the promise of being crowned a national champion, this race can draw the best of the best from around the country. And not just anyone can go register and race Age Group Nationals. No siree Bob. You have to qualify. So let’s start there today with our three athletes. My opening question, where did you qualify for Age Group Nationals? Colin, over to you.

Colin: I think it was at–

Andrew: I think?!

Colin: –it was a multitude of races that I had qualified at, but I think any of the Ironman races I did last year had qualified me.

Andrew: Yeah, very humble, very calm statement there. “Every Ironman I raced last year qualified me for USAT Nationals.” Must be nice my friend. Must be nice. Nolan, where did you qualify for Age Group Nationals?

Nolan: So I did a local sprint triathlon and I’m pretty sure that qualified me and then also the Chicago Triathlon were the two races I did that I think were eligible. So I think that’s where I qualified.

Andrew: Okay and Emily, over to you. Now Emily is a youth and junior athlete so a little bit different here. I’m sure you know exactly which race you qualified at. What was it?

Emily: Yeah, so I didn’t race the Age Group Nationals. I did the draft legal race for juniors.

Andrew: Okay.

Emily: So I qualified for that in Richmond, Virginia. I think it was like the end of– no like the beginning of May I think.

Andrew: Okay, cool and so for the youth and junior series, what do you have to do to qualify? I think it’s a little bit different from the adult series.

Emily: Yeah. So you have to get, the number differs at every race, but you have to get usually around like top 17 or top 18 in one of the races. Then every race it rolls down. So Virginia was the first race of the season. I think I got 16th at Virginia and that’s where I qualified.

Andrew: Yeah, so it was just good enough at the first race of the year you punched your ticket. So really, really cool. I know for the adults you have to race an event and you have to finish I think in the top 10% of your age group at a USAT sanctioned race. So Colin, I guess, has done that several times. Nolan was able to do it twice last season. So good for you guys. It’s so funny, when I do local sprints and Olympics here in the Dallas area, somehow in my age group– it’s a pretty competitive age group– I’m always like one slot off. I’m always just like one position out of what usually qualifies me. So I have qualified for this once at a super sprint that I raced in Tennessee one time, but have not raced Age Group Nationals myself. So I’m excited to learn more about it today.

Now USA Triathlon will host this event in the same city for a few years and then they change it up. When I was new to the sport I think it was in Ohio and it’s been in Milwaukee now for the last couple years and they’ve announced that for 2024 and beyond it is on the move to Omaha, Nebraska. So this question won’t matter for future versions of this race, but I’m just curious because I heard Milwaukee was a fantastic venue. How was it racing in Milwaukee? What did you guys think of the tri scene there in downtown Milwaukee? Emily, what’d you think?

Emily: It was gorgeous. I loved swimming in the water because it was pretty for one, and I like cold water.

Andrew: Okay.

Emily: It’s less miserable.

Andrew: Sure.

Emily: Yeah and just the race, it was really pretty there and I liked being on the water.

Andrew: Yeah, that’s what I heard. Like everybody was like, “Oh my gosh! Milwaukee is beautiful.” I don’t think when you hear Milwaukee you instantly think, “Oh, destination location. Let me go race there.” So I was very, very glad to hear everybody had a great experience. What are the water temperatures in central Florida where you’re usually training?

Emily: Around that time they were probably in the high 80s, 90s.

Andrew: So it was a nice treat to go up north and dip in the waters in Milwaukee?

Emily: Yes and Milwaukee was also just super nice because the city was right there. Everybody had hotels super close. So I got to hang out with all my friends the entire time and just kind of explore. It was really fun.

Andrew: Nolan, for you Milwaukee is not very far away from your home base. What did you think of racing there?

Nolan: Yeah, so being from the Chicago area it’s super nice just to be able to pop right up there, but it has kind of a bigger city feel without a lot of the baggage that comes along with a big city like the problems with travel and stuff like that. It’s still pretty easy to navigate around Milwaukee, but it still has a pretty big city feel which is cool. Being right along the lakefront is gorgeous. Lake Michigan is awesome. It was just kind of fun.

Andrew: Yep, very, very cool. Colin over to you on this. I know you’ve had a chance to race in a lot of different locations and destinations. How did Milwaukee rank for you? What’d you think?

Colin: It ranked right up there. I was really impressed with the venue and everything starting really with the airport. Flew in and it was I think less than 15 minutes away from the venue right at the airport. So right there. My Airbnb I think was seven minutes away and there was tons of different options whether it be hotel, Airbnb, so I think they got a lot right with that venue. It is disappointing maybe it’s not going to go back there and I think there’s a great opportunity for events there because, yeah, I was really impressed with it.

Andrew: Again, I’m sad I missed it. When I first heard it was going to Milwaukee I was like, “Why did they choose Milwaukee?” Then you hear just nothing but great things. So I’m kind of trusting that when they make the switch to Omaha there’s a reason and hopefully the racing there is on par with what we’ve heard from Milwaukee.

A really cool thing about this race weekend in particular is that the PTO, the Professional Triathletes Organization, they paired the PTO US Open with Age Group Nationals. So the amateur field was there to race Age Group Nationals. The pros were there to race the PTO US Open and everyone got the ability to watch the pros if they wanted to. Did the three of you stick around and catch the pro races? Did that add to the experience for you? Nolan, what did you think? Did you watch the pros?

Nolan: Yeah. So bike check in was Friday so after that I stuck around and watched the men’s pro race and honestly going into the weekend I was almost more excited to watch those guys race than for my own race. I was geeking out watching these super stars, like world class field, assemble right in Milwaukee which was super, super cool. So I did stay around for the men’s race, but then after my own race I did drive home so I missed the women’s race and had to watch that on live stream. But some awesome races that weekend.

Andrew: Yeah, no they absolutely were. Emily, did you get to watch the pros in action?

Emily: Yes. So when I went with my dad to get his age group set up transition and everything, we watched the men’s pro race afterwards and then after the next day I was hanging out with my friends and we came a bit late, but we watched the women’s too.

Andrew: No, no. Very, very cool. So a year ago the PTO US Open was in Dallas and it was 15 minutes from my house so I absolutely jumped in and made sure I raced it. Emily, your dad was there. I definitely saw him and chatted with him for a bit and it was cool having PTO come to my backyard, but it was just a PTO event. There was a small kind of age group race. Like, it wasn’t a huge deal so when they paired it with Age Group Nationals, as much as I liked it in my backyard, it just made so much more sense to put it at a big picture event with a lot of triathletes in the same place to get to have more eyes on that pro race and to kind of have that whole field just kind of be built up. So I love the decision that they made to partner those two events together. Colin, did you watch the pros in action?

Colin: I did, yeah. That was actually a deciding factor for me to go to nationals.

Andrew: Wow.

Colin: When I heard that that was going to be there too I was like, “Wow. That will be super awesome to go check that out.” So I ended up leaving a bit early both of the days. It was funny on the bike, especially on the men, I was like, I really should go back and kind of get the feet up, but I was just having so much fun I was like, “One more lap. One more lap.” I’ll stick around and stayed a little longer than I wanted to, but it was awesome to watch in person. You know, the crowd support they had because of this too made it just a spectacular event.

Andrew: Something people might not realize unless you did watch the coverage or see it in person is that when they’re doing these PTO events, it’s not like a middle distance or a full distance race where you go out on the bike and okay see you in 112 miles. Like, they’re doing, you just said laps. So it’s laps around this circuit so instead of as a spectator you’ve seen them come by one time and you don’t see the pros again for three hours, they’re coming by lap after lap after lap so you can really see who’s gaining on who, who’s passed who, who’s overtaken who, who dropped off the pace, who’s surging. So really, really, really cool and I’m glad you guys all got to take that in in person. PTO is doing a great job kind of adding a new thing to the sport there.

So I want to hear about the three of you and your races there in Milwaukee. So just to give people kind of a little order of operations here, I’m going to end with Colin. He’s our champion, #1 in his age group and #1 in our hearts. Emily I’m going to put you in the middle because Nolan, I want to start with Nolan. You are a very new triathlete for a guy competing at the National Championships. I think I heard through the grapevine this was something like your fourth triathlon ever. So let’s dive into your story first. As a still fairly new triathlete, what has been your impression so far of this wild sport?

Nolan: Yeah, so this was actually— I had done four triathlons prior to this so this was #5.

Andrew: Ok so I was close.

Nolan: This was my second Olympic distance ever. The other ones were sprint, but I think the main thing about the triathlon is the community and I love just like the whole atmosphere of it. I think one of the worst things that you could do is go to a race and not be involved with anything else; just go, show up, you race, and go home. I think there’s so much more to it especially with triathlon that it’s just a lot of fun. Especially with TriDot. Just having a lot of fun with that aspect. But training wise, there’s just so much variety.

Andrew: Yeah.

Nolan: There’s just so much fun stuff to always keep things interesting.

Andrew: Yeah and that’s part of what drew me to the sport in the first place for sure. In your background, we kind of said it in your bio at the top of the show, but your background is in just pure running.

Nolan: Yeah.

Andrew: So I’m curious to hear, do you think there’s– coming from such a strong pure running background and then moving into triathlon, is the vibe and the culture of the sport that much different that you’re enjoying it more or do you think they’re kind of similar.

Nolan: I’m feeling a lot more with triathlon.

Andrew: Nice. Good job triathletes.

Nolan: I feel like if I need anything I feel like I could just ask around and there’s so many people out there who are just looking to give bits of information and looking to give help where like the marathon and– So I ran in college and everything so having that background I feel like it’s more just cut and dry. I have my workouts and it’s a lot more straightforward where triathlon to me is this wild west of endurance sports where I don’t know where to go and I don’t know exactly how to navigate it, but there’s so many people out there looking to lend a hand or give me advice and that’s been huge for me.

Andrew: Yeah. Very cool. Now I will forewarn people that when Nolan shares his run split, make sure you’re sitting down. Don’t hold it against him that you’re not as fast as he is on the run in a triathlon. The rest of your race though is still a work in progress. No shame there. You’re new to the sport. Nolan, go ahead and walk us through your race there in Milwaukee.

Nolan: Yeah, so for the swim it was actually my first ever mass start open water swim.

Andrew: Yeah, very different.

Nolan: Yeah. So that was definitely a learning process and even just like the kind of process of it. I had never been in a race where we had an opportunity to do a swim warm up.

Andrew: Oh yeah.

Nolan: So that was kind of new. Just like even before the gun went off, swimming before the race even started was new to me. So the first hundred couple yards I was getting bodied. Everyone had their own line of where they think they should be swimming to and I’m getting cut off. So that made things challenging, but I think now I’m at the point where I’m strong enough in the water where I can kind of keep calm and keep relaxed. I think for myself and probably for a lot of other people, swimming is something I just have to endure so I can get to the fun stuff of biking and running.

Andrew: Sure.

Nolan: As long as I could get through the swim then that’s fine, but for me I want to be competitive and I still lost about 10 minutes off the leaders which I definitely need to do some work on.

Andrew: Well, and you just went through TriDot Pool School in Chicago I believe. Correct?

Nolan: Yeah.

Andrew: So is that helping that swim come along alright.

Nolan: Yeah, so I’ve already hit a few PR’s since the Pool School.

Andrew: Glad to hear.

Nolan: My next race is 70.3 Madison also up in Wisconsin.

Andrew: Cool.

Nolan: So I’ll really be able to put that stuff to the test. But yeah, the swim is coming along. There were like 96 people in my age group and I was 74th coming out of the water.

Andrew: Okay. Well, you beat like roughly 20 people. So yeah.

Nolan: Yeah, we’re getting there. Again so national level field and if I did that a year ago I would probably be dead last. So definitely some progress being made. The Pool School I feel like helps quite a bit with that. Then to the bike. So this was– I’m not using my own personal bike. I talked about the community, so I’m actually borrowing my coach’s old bike.

Andrew: What a good coach.

Nolan: So he’s helping out a ton and we had a pretty good fit and stuff with it, but definitely some things that need to be tweaked and stuff and just like the nature of training. I haven’t been in that aero position for that long before.

Andrew: Yeah, it’s different.

Nolan: So even before I got off the bike I could kind of feel my glutes and my hamstrings kind of cramping up just because I was trying to be in a very aero position that I haven’t held for that long. So that’s all part of the learning process and tweaking that bike fit and stuff. But then, yeah. So coming off the bike in transition and stuff I was kind of cramping and not having a super good time.

Andrew: Yeah, so with those cramping legs, what was your run split Nolan?

Nolan: So I ran 36 minutes off the bike which it’s funny. Because you’re saying it like it’s super, super fast. But for me that was like the most disappointing part of my race.

Andrew: Yeah.

Nolan: I know what I’m capable of and it was pretty frustrating getting to that point and not feeling like I was able to give my A-level performance.

Andrew: Okay. Makes sense.

Nolan: But also something that I just didn’t know and this was kind of a funny point. So coming off the bike, I biked with glasses on and I thought I wanted those glasses on the run too, but it was kind of overcast and stuff and I was sweating buckets. It was pretty humid out. But my glasses were all sweaty and kind of foggy and I didn’t really want them anymore. So I take them off and I see my wife along the course and I chuck them to my wife and then an official starts yelling at me. He’s like “Hey you can’t drop those!” Like, what are you doing? So that official actually made me turn around and run back probably 50 meters and pick up my glasses and then I just had to carry my glasses for the rest of the way. But I didn’t know that was a rule that I couldn’t just discard things along the way.

Andrew: Yeah, and had you done that at like a local sprint that wasn’t a championship event that just kind of has local officials, that is probably not going to be on their radar of things they’re really looking for. But yeah, when you get to a profile event, yes, those officials really buckle down on every single potential infraction.

Nolan: Yeah.

Andrew: So my 10K PR is like a 38:18, 38 something in the teens. Not too shabby for just an average athlete. So when I see 36 minutes off the bike it’s just like dear Lord! So on fresh legs, what is a 10K usually for you?

Nolan: Yeah, so my 10K PR in college was 30:03.

Andrew: Okay.

Nolan: So currently it’s a ways off that. I also think that I didn’t realize how big of an impact just like the rhythm of things is coming off the bike. I think the triathlon run is just so much about finding a rhythm and staying in that rhythm. Because coming off the bike I feel like Bambi still for those first few minutes and then I kind of find the rhythm, but then having to stop and turn around and pick up my glasses definitely threw that rhythm off. But overall, it was a pretty good race experience. I’m definitely just picking things and taking them so I can learn from them and go to the next race because my A race, my main race this year, is that half Ironman coming up; that 70.3.

Andrew: Yeah, so still you’re not a total triathlon newby anymore. You’ve learned some stuff. You’ve got some runs off the bike under your legs now. I’m curious though, from race one, when I heard that you were fairly new to the sport and you raced nationals, I was like “Man, I really want to talk to this guy.” Because you’re only new to the sport for a short window of time and then all of a sudden you’re a full blown triathlete, right. So I wanted your perspective on this race while you were still new to it. From race one until now, race five, what are kind of the major do’s and don’ts and things you feel like you’ve already picked up on in the early stages here of your journey?

Nolan: I think a lot of the things in just competing in general do translate pretty well from what I did racing in college and racing marathons and stuff. But I think the biggest learning curve has been just the logistics of everything. For a marathon I get my shoes, I get my nutrition, and there’s a lot less of that nutrition than in triathlon.

Andrew: Yeah.

Nolan: But I get my couple things and I’m out the door and I’m good to go. But for this you just have so much gear. Just logistically it’s just a lot harder to work around. Then also just like finding the time to balance your training and just fit in everything I feel like has been quite a bit of a learning curve, but definitely a lot of fun. So yeah.

Andrew: Yeah, Nolan, thankfully it’s such a complicated sport that I get to have a podcast where I talk about it every single week and I never run out of things to talk about because there’s just so many things to cover. So here we are. I think this is episode 207, 206 that we’re recording right now and still going strong. Plenty of things to cover. But Nolan, I know you said your A race coming up is 70.3 Madison in Wisconsin. So we’ll put you in the tracker, we’ll see how you do. It’s your sixth triathlon ever. Is that your first half distance?

Nolan: Yeah. It will be my first half. So one of the good things about triathlon to me is I’m able to go into races without many expectations. So I don’t really have…

Andrew: Yeah sure.

Nolan: …a time goal because it’s brand new for me. I’ve never done it before. So I really don’t have anything to compare it to. I could just go in without that baggage of expectations or extra like weight on my shoulders and just really go have fun and just race.

Andrew: Yeah, no. Very, very cool. It definitely gives you a different perspective. Now moving on to Emily’s story, you were racing in the junior draft legal event against the best girls in the country. Tell us about your race. How did it go?

Emily: So nationals was actually my worst race of the season.

Andrew: Nice! Perfect timing.  

Emily: I know, right? But it was good. I mean, it was my first year aging up in the series so I was 15 competing against a bunch of 19 year olds. I still got 22nd which was the worst placing I had all season, but I had fun and right from the get go it kind of started going south. I mean, right from the start I got completely drowned in the swim. Then the bike was good, but I couldn’t really get the entire pack to work with me and then just couldn’t catch the amount of people I needed to on the bike. Then by the time I got to the run my legs were spent.

Andrew: Yep. So from there you’re just hanging on. You’re doing the best you can. So when you’re listening to Nolan talk about his swim and you hear him kind of talk about it was his first time ever doing a mass swim start. The term he used, Emily, was he got “bodied” in the swim. Most of your races you’re doing mass starts where you’re starting against the entire field. Is it kind of funny for you to hear somebody talk like that…

Emily: Yeah.

Andrew: …with kind of the experience you have doing those.

Emily: Yeah for sure. But from the start I just got dove right on top of.

Andrew: Was there anything unique about this race that happened or was it just kind of luck of the draw the way the girls around you were swimming and it ended up happening?

Emily: You know, I feel like based off the season I’m coming to notice that I might do better with less taper. So my best race of the season I actually won and it was in Pittsburg. The way Pittsburg works it’s two races. You have the qualifying day and it’s a really short race. It’s the same race as you do in youth; it’s a super sprint.

Andrew: Okay.

Emily: So the first race is qualifying for finals and if you don’t qualify for finals you get to race again on Sunday, but in the consolation race. So I qualified for finals, but honestly I didn’t have a good swim on the first day so I had to work on the bike which was not my goal. I planned to just go hard on the swim, like back off from there and just qualify for finals so that way I could do better at finals. But I didn’t get to do that, but clearly it paid off.

Andrew: Yeah.

Emily: Like, I won the next day. Then at Iowa which was my second best race which I got 6th or 7th I think. Yeah, I think I got 7th and I trained right through that race, no taper.

Andrew: Yeah. Was that really gratifying for you just having aged up this year?

Emily: Yeah, that was like completely– I have no clue how that happened. This season I came in hoping to maybe get one top ten finish because I mean the girls are incredible that I’m competing against. So when I won I couldn’t even comprehend it.

Andrew: So fast forward to Milwaukee. Pittsburg was your best race of the season. Milwaukee was your worst race of the season, so sorry for that. So Emily, most of our audience are adults who are used to racing the local sprints, Olympics, Ironman events where they’re not draft legal. I’ve done one draft legal, myself, event ever in my triathlon career. Again, that’s most of the racing that you do. So just kind of explain to people. When you come out of the swim, coming out of the swim with a pack and getting in those front bike packs is so crucial. So in Milwaukee, you come out of the swim. It wasn’t a great swim. You got duked on a few times. What was your positioning going out on the bike and kind of what were the implications for how the bike leg had to go for you because of it?

Emily: So normally in a good race my goal is to be in the chase pack and in this race I was in the chase pack’s chase pack.

Andrew: Okay.

Emily: So coming out of the swim if you’re not in a bike pack, either you have to make a decision if it’s important for you to just solo up and if you think you can go catch people. So personally, I’m a pretty decently strong biker so usually I won’t wait up for anybody. I’ll just go and I’ll catch people and I’ll tell them to get on my wheel and then when I get tired I’ll pull off and let them work. But there’s a lot of other people too that aren’t as strong bikers and won’t catch anybody so they’ll wait up for more people to catch them so that way they can work with other people.

Andrew: Yeah. Makes sense. I would be one of those. That would be me on the bike. Then once you’re out onto the run, you were where you were and you just gave all the effort you have left and I believe you said 22nd out of 70 I think in the field?

Emily: I think so. It should be 75, maybe 70, I’m not sure.

Andrew: I think it’s important to just note that this season for you, you did the youth and junior version of aging up, right? You referenced it was your first year as a 15-year-old racing against the older girls. So I’m just kind of curious, I think it’s awesome that you placed 22nd out of 70 at nationals in your first year with the older girls. So kind of from this new challenge of all season long instead of being the oldest girl in the group, you’re now the youngest girl in the group. Do you feel like that challenge has grown you this season as an athlete and a competitor?

Emily: For sure. I feel like racing the older girls has made it more fun for me too. I like competing so that’s the biggest part for me. I like going in and knowing that the odds of me getting top whatever, top 10 even is going to be extremely difficult and I like knowing that it’s going to be extremely hard to have good placement. So I think that more than anything it just kind of helped me to learn to push myself to the fullest.

Andrew: So most of the time when you’re racing, you are racing draft legal. We’ve established that. You race draft legal Milwaukee, but you do sometimes enter the adult sprint races where you’ll race against the adult field in a time trial triathlon. I know at Clash Daytona you won overall female at the sprint distance race. Congrats on that. I’m just curious as somebody who goes back and forth between mostly draft legal, but dabbling in time trial, does your strategy or the way you approach a race change whether it’s draft legal or time trial?

Emily: So if I’m going into a time trial race it’s usually going to be for training purposes. I don’t really do them as often. I don’t think I’ve done one once this year, but when I do them it’s usually like the Clairmont Summer Sports races or Sumter, something around here and so I usually do it as a training purpose. I mean, I still go all out, but the goal at the end of it is just to see how I can do overall and use it to help me better for my draft legal races which is my end goal.

Andrew: So next year in Omaha, Nebraska I’m sure you will be there. Is the goal being one year older a top ten finish?

Emily: For sure.

Andrew: Okay. Cool. Well we will be on the lookout for that and rooting for you in the meantime. Moving on to my man Colin Cook. Now your coach is Kurt Madden. He works with us here at TriDot. He’s on the podcast frequently and he was very happy, Colin, on our Monday staff call in the morning to let us all know that his athlete, Colin Cook, had such a great race. We heard kind of the positive reports very, very quickly. Now you won first place age group champion at the national level and you actually raced the Olympic and the sprint. So we’ll kind of hear two quick race reports from you. So take us through your races. What happened out there as you were jostling for those top spots?

Colin: Yeah, so thank you and I’ll give Kurt a shout out first here. Definitely really enjoyed working with him this year. It’s been a lot of fun and really beneficial.

Andrew: He’s okay. Yeah he’s okay.

Colin: Definitely. So but yeah, it was interesting. So I actually really haven’t raced short course in I think five or six years at least it’s been. So I’ve been definitely focusing on longer stuff and I raced a half Ironman the weekend before so I really wasn’t sure how things were going to go, but I was definitely feeling pretty good into it minus when I first landed and kind of getting the cobwebs out there after the travel. But yeah. Relatively speaking the swim is the weaker of the three for me. So definitely wanted to have a strong swim especially in day one, the Olympic distance. You know, those swims become more and more important than they are in the long course stuff. I went out quite strong in that and tried to establish good position, but I did have an issue. The course kind of loops around a little bit and I was planning to kind of take this inside line and there ended up being like a boat there that kind of blocked us from doing that. So we had to go, the group that I was in…

Andrew: Oh sure.

Colin: …had to swim around that. Ultimately I came out of the water time wise a bit behind what I was hoping to do, but always going with the mindset the swim is what it is and then we get out and kind of like Nolan was saying there, we get to our strengths in the bike and the run there. Got out still feeling good and pushed the bike quite hard. We did have calmer conditions for sure on Saturday than we did on Sunday. So was pushing there, definitely passing people. The guy that did end up beating me– So actually I did win on Sunday, but I got second place in my age group on Saturday. Surprisingly I thought for sure when I was looking at the results after the guy must have out swam me, but he didn’t. He actually was behind me.

Andrew: Wow.

Colin: He passed me on the bike and I did catch back up to him at one point on the bike and then he repassed me and we ended up running almost identical times. But yeah, I was continuing to pass people. I didn’t really know where I was place wise throughout the day and was just kind of focused on me, but was happy with my power output and my control of the bike and everything like that and came off the bike feeling really good and just continued that on in the run. I had kind of known, I did look at the times from last year of what I thought it would kind of take to win. So I had some ideas and I did know who the age group winner was last year and he was out in front of me. He’s a strong swimmer and pretty good biker. So I saw him and the other gentleman, Chris, that one up ahead of me and also I’ll give Billy Born, for those that are familiar in TriDot, a little shoutout.

Andrew: Shoutout to Billy!

Colin: He gave me a split of what position I was in and then he was telling me after how he sprinted across to the other corner to try to catch me to give me another update. So thanks Billy for that. I appreciate it. But yeah. I was really hopeful I was going to catch both those guys, but I ended up catching up. Michael was the guy who ended up third and as soon as I caught him he kind of picked it up and we went shoulder to shoulder for a little while and it was like, “Oh boy, I think we’re going to have a battle on our hands here.” And I kind of just gradually just kind of snuck away from him and ended up coming in second on Saturday. So I was certainly happy.

Andrew: Did you have any– like could you see the leader in front of you at all?

Colin: So he ended up beating me by just under a minute. So I saw him at the turn arounds. I thought it was feasible to catch him, but when we were getting toward the finish line I didn’t see him. So I didn’t have that motivation, but I did try to still finish strong and knew that Michael wasn’t too far behind.

Andrew: So at that point it was hold off the guy behind you, stay strong, and second place. So you finished that day as the runner up which is already fantastic. Congrats to you on that. You go into day two and how are the legs feeling as you kind of head into that. There were a lot of TriDot athletes that actually did this double header of the Olympic on day one, the sprint on day two. It’s a very cool thing to do if you’ve qualified for both. How were you feeling going into day two after putting forth such an effort on day one?

Colin: I was feeling surprisingly good even that afternoon after the Olympic and in the morning I felt good. I will say, they do do a pretty good gap so it takes a while for everybody to get started in the race you know with the different starting times for the different age groups. So there was a point I was sitting on the grass before my age group went and I was kind of like, “Oh boy. I don’t know if I have it in me today.” But I kind of snapped out of that and I’d say had a somewhat similar experience as to Saturday where the swim went alright, but not a great swim, but got out onto the bike and I knew– Actually I did hear that Chris, the guy that won on Saturday, was not racing on Sunday so I didn’t have him to look for, but there was another gentleman, Michael, that he’ll come in in a second here. He was fourth on Saturday and so I knew that he would be out there and be somebody to kind of keep an eye on. So I ended up passing him towards the tail end of the bike. Again, I was pretty amazed power wise and effort wise I felt really good on the bike and honestly didn’t really feel like I had raced the day before that much so I was surprised by that. I passed him and I guess headed into transition in the lead, but Michael actually caught me in transition and we literally went out to the run at the same time and he literally hit my heels as we were going out.

Andrew: Nice. Yeah. Epic.

Colin: So he sat in behind me for a little over a mile. You know, I kind of knew that something was going to come at some point here and I was kind of waiting for it, but at the same point I was kind of like alright I’m just going to stick to me, focus on me.

Andrew: Surely he had in the back of his mind that you had outran him the day before and so surly he was a little intimidated like, “Oh, I don’t want that to happen to me again.”

Colin: Well, so it’s interesting. So a little bit after the one mile mark, he ended up putting in a surge and he dropped me. He was probably a good seven or eight seconds ahead of me for the next at least over a mile.

Andrew: Wow.

Colin: So he was constantly in sight and I made the decision to not go with him when he made that surge. I said “Nope. Stick to you.” You know we were already running a pretty good clip and right about where I wanted to be so I said, “Alright I’m going to let him go.” And just kind of stick to it and hope that he does blow up here. He didn’t really blow up much and I’m not going to lie, there was a point at about two miles in where I was like, “Dang. You’ve come all this way and you’re going to get second again.” And I kind of used that as motivation. You know, you only get so many opportunities and you’ve got to take advantage of them. So I did rethink that and kind of blocked those thoughts out as quickly as I could and I ended up dropping pretty good. I had my fastest mile of the day was the last mile and I ended up passing him and I can’t say I cruised into the victory, but was able to cross the line first and it was very gratifying. Pretty cool for sure.

Andrew: At the point you made that pass, did you think at that point that “Okay, I’ve got this.” or was there still kind of some time to fend him off?

Colin: Yeah, so I think I passed him at about 2.6 or 2.7 so there was still a little bit of time left and talking to him at the awards he kept saying “I can’t believe you caught me. I can’t believe you got back to me.” So it was a lot of fun. One thing I will say I loved about racing that weekend was that like the other folks have said here, it wasn’t a complete mass start, but we were starting, we were racing, we were starting as age groups together, right. So both Saturday and Sunday when I was shoulder to shoulder with those guys I knew that I was actually shoulder to shoulder with them.

Andrew: Yeah.

Colin: You know, that’s something I really miss in Ironman. I certainly respect their decision to go to time trials and it is what it is there, but there’s nothing better than when you’re next to somebody that you’re actually racing side by side with them and I miss that. So that was really gratifying for me to get that experience.

Andrew: Yeah and honestly probably a reason for any of our listeners if you ever do qualify for USAT Age Group Nationals it might be reason enough right there to go do it just to have that experience.

Colin: That’s a good point.

Andrew: There’s not many races at this point where you get the chance to do that. So it’s not on my radar to scout out my competition leading into a race like it probably is for Emily, like it is for you, and she’s nodding her head like “yep I absolutely do that. I know who those girls are.” So as you’re going into the race weekend it’s funny to me that you won the sprint and got second at the Olympic because you weren’t even focused on short course leading into this, right? So as you’re heading into this and you’re having those conversations with Coach Kurt Madden about what was possible, was winning the goal? Did you think you could win or was the goal just let me stick to my paces and do the best I can and see what happens?

Colin: I’d say it’s a little bit of both actually. So I definitely knew that if I had my day that I was capable of winning. But you never know who else is going to show up there and obviously I mean, clearly I did know something about my competition, but I’m not one really that spends much time looking at what other people are doing. I truly like– I would say an example of that was my tactic there on the run where I decided to let him go and stick to my race. I am a true believer that if we stick to our game plan, we focus on us, that’s what gets us our best result which ultimately will get us our best placement if that’s what we really care about, right? So it’s interesting and it’s a fun aspect for sure, but sticking to me is always my main focus.

Andrew: So when it comes to TriDot training, I do sometimes see the question “Does TriDot work for elite athletes?” And the answer is yes. You, Colin, are very much a personification of that. You’re a prime example of it. The caveat there that’s really interesting when you look at what TriDot does is we use big data and machine learning to take athlete data and turn that into the most optimized version of training for who someone is and when you think about elite athletes, they’re elite for a reason. There are less people at the pointy end of the spectrum than people in the middle of the spectrum. There are more athletes at the races like me, in the middle of the pack running 12 hour Ironman, than there are at the pointy end running 9:30 level Ironman. So when it comes to the data size that TriDot has to optimize somebody’s training, there is just by default less data from elite athletes compared to someone in the middle or the back of the pack. So that’s kind of the caveat there, is TriDot absolutely works for elite athletes, there’s just less data for the machine learning to draw from to draw conclusions and tailor the training. So we really encouraged our elite athletes if they can afford it in their budget to work with a coach. Kind of on the side, you are a TriDot coach and you also work with Kurt Madden as your coach. So I’m just curious for you Colin who has come onto TriDot I think fairly recently, how has TriDot training as an elite age grouper impacted your training? How have you found our training compared to whatever you were doing before?

Colin: Yeah. Yeah, it’s been very interesting and I guess I’ll start, you know I’ve been in the game for a while now, but I always kind of like to use myself as a guinea pig and that’s kind of mostly how this started. I’ve certainly been aware of TriDot for many years and it was like, “Alright, what’s all the hype about with this? Let me learn more about it.” It’s been a lot of fun. I’ve really enjoyed– I will say honestly a lot of the times for me the workouts are harder than I would expect and the intervals are quite tough and they keep coming on and especially there’s definitely a good amount of spice on the run, but I can honestly say this year I really– I’ve been rebounding faster from races and feeling stronger. Even the weekend before I PR’d the half marathon portion of the run at Maine 70.3 and I’ve been really impressed and really enjoying it for sure.

Andrew: Yeah very, very cool. Glad to hear that. Two more questions to the three of you. Thank you so much just for all three of you just kind of sharing a little insight on your race. I really enjoy these conversations and just kind of getting a chance to hear how other people’s races are going, particularly people that kind of come from different backgrounds and different experience levels. Something unique about this event is just how many events were happening on the same weekend, right? There’s all the different age group waves for the Olympic, all the different age groups for the sprints. There’s duathlon, aquathon. There’s the youth and junior draft legal stuff. There’s the PTO big race and I just know from experience when there’s that much packed into one multisport weekend, most people when they show up to the races it’s a local sprint, it’s a local Olympic. There might be two races going on. There might be a kids fun run thrown in there, but it’s very rare to show up to an event and have this much on the calendar. I do think there are some tips and tricks for kind of optimizing your energy levels, making sure that you are ready for your race event and not over taxing yourself on all the different things you can kind of jump into, all the different things you can go watch. So just from being there in Milwaukee at an event that was a true multisport festival with a lot going on, what do you think you kind of learned from that atmosphere that you would give to other athletes listening in terms of advice for navigating such a busy, packed in weekend? Nolan, what do you think?

Nolan: Well, I probably didn’t do the best job of actually doing that because watching that men’s race for the PTO the day before probably for my race wasn’t the smartest decision. I had driven up there, I didn’t get that much to eat, it was kind of hot. I could have been doing more productive things, but watching the PTO for me I feel like will help me further down the line of seeing those top pro level guys. I feel like I got more out of that than this small one point along the way. But in general the next day and everything my piece of advice would just be to look at the people around you and try and take inspiration from that. I saw probably– I don’t know how young some of these kids were, but they were like 5 years old and they’re doing triathlons.

Andrew: Yeah.

Nolan: Like I didn’t know they made tri bikes that small. They have these tiny little bikes. I was like, what the heck. Then same thing with wetsuits. I’m like, I didn’t know that was a thing at all. But it was super cool to see and then on the flip side you have these people who are 75. I think the oldest might have been over 80 years old doing a triathlon which is just so inspirational and really just shows the diversity of the sport and just like how the sport is for everyone and no matter what level you’re at, you can compete and do your best at it. So yeah, take those people and use them as inspiration for sure.

Andrew: Now I know Emily, when you’re racing it usually is at a race weekend where there’s a lot of youth and junior events happening in the same weekend. So you’re pretty well versed in this at trying to pace yourself through a weekend and really peak for your big race moment. What advice do you have to somebody listening on just how to navigate a busy race weekend and make sure that you’re ready to rock and roll when it’s your time on the start line?

Emily: I think the biggest thing for nationals specifically was because there was so many events going on and so many people racing especially in the age group races, like 3000 people racing. I think you need to plan ahead, plan more time than you think you need. If you’ve got to cross the race path you might have to spend 20 minutes waiting to cross because there’s 3000 people.

Andrew: Yeah, true.

Emily: So I think that was the biggest thing I noticed with an event that big.

Andrew: Great point there Emily on just building in loads of time to get where you need to go for those crucial moments. Colin, what do you think here?

Colin: I think you got some great answers already here, but to piggy back a little bit off of that, I mean I think you’ve got to make sure that you’re taking care of yourself right, or your family and things first. Like example, Friday night there for the PTO race, staying hydrated was tough. It was cool actually out there and they had this huge water gallon thing in the middle of the– kind of near the transition area, but it ran out of water.

Andrew: Oh I’m sure.

Colin: So like trying to stay on top of hydration I think is the biggest mistake. You’re in a new environment and you’re trying to– you’re just not in your regular state there kind of what else is going on when you’re normally prepping for a race. So you’ve got to just make sure that you’re keeping that in mind, but at the same time like Nolan was saying I think you’ve really got to use that as inspiration and take advantage of that cool experience to be able to go check that out with all the different races; the kids, the older folks, it’s just super cool. I think it’s well worth maybe not relaxing quite as much as you would when you’re at home, but if you use that in the right way it will benefit you.

Andrew: So I’m curious what the three of you would say to other athletes who qualify. Is USAT Age Group Nationals, is it a cool experience that’s worth traveling to? Is it just kind of like another sprint or Olympic that you can just stay closer to home and not worry about it? Like on a 0 to 10, how much would you rate the cool factor of this versus other events people can travel to? Is it really worth, hey if you qualify you’ve got to be there. Emily, what do you think?

Emily: I think nationals, it’s a lot more people, it’s a lot more competitive. You’ve got people from all over the country. So I think it’s 100% worth it.

Andrew: Okay.

Emily: I love the sport more than anything. So I think if you’re not truly dedicated to the sport maybe save your money, but if you really love it and you’re looking to have fun and you want to race the best, definitely go.

Andrew: Mmmm. If you want to race the best like Colin Cook, who is the best. Colin what do you think here?

Colin: I think I was– the wow factor and the cool factor I guess was really high for me. I think especially paired again with the PTO race and with all the other races going on I thought it was a fabulous event. To me too, the opportunity to race back to back days, if you’re going to travel somewhere, you’re investing quite a bit to get there, why not race twice if you can. I thought that was great. I would say honestly comparing it to maybe to Kona or something like that, maybe not quite to that level, but way up there and it exceeded my expectations.

Andrew: I think triathlon is a great way to see the world. It’s a great way to travel and even when USAT puts this race in a city if you’ve never been there before, hey cool, you got to check out Milwaukee and do a triathlon while you were there. What better way to see a new city or explore a new town than having a race to go do while you’re there. Nolan, it was your fifth race ever. Shut us down here today. What would you say to people? Was this event worth it to go travel to and do?

Nolan: So obviously I don’t have too much to compare to. I haven’t done like these destination races and stuff like that, but I thought it was super, super cool. It was just a really well run event and it kind of made you feel like you’re a pro athlete. It felt like you were– like you were racing on the same course or part of the same course a lot of the pro guys were competing on and to me it had that pro level feel which was super, super cool. So I would definitely recommend it.

Cool down theme: Great set everyone! Let’s cool down.

Vanessa Ronksley: Hello there everyone! I’m Vanessa your average triathlete with elite level enthusiasm and I am pumped to bring you the Coach Cool Down Tip. With me today is Julie McPhilomy, one of TriDot’s newest coaches. She began coaching with TriDot in 2022 and she is excited to help people reach their goals and cross those finish lines. Julie is a well-seasoned athlete herself. She has run countless half marathons, 12 marathons. She is a three-time 70.3 finisher and a two-time full Ironman finisher and she is no stranger to the TriDot platform as she has been using it since 2016. On the coaching side of things, Julie specializes in coaching athletes who are new to the sport, those ready to cross their first short course finish line, or even those intermediate athletes or beginner athletes who want to cross the long-course finish lines. She has a soft spot for the 40+ female crowd because this is when she actually started triathlon herself. Julie’s line of work is as a flight attendant comes along with a non-traditional schedule and part of her knowledge base is working with athletes who have a complicated set of work hours, but still want to fit all the training in. A fun fact about Julie is that her 40th birthday present to herself was training and racing her first full distance triathlon. This is a pretty epic birthday gift and one that kept on giving for a really long time. What a great idea. Can you tell us a little bit about your journey?

Julie McPhilomy: Hi Vanessa. Yeah thanks. Yeah I did my first full distance Ironman at 40. I actually did my first marathon at 30 and that was my birthday present at 30. It happened to be the 30th anniversary of the Chicago Marathon and I thought, “Why not? I’m turning 30, it’s turning 30.” And I loved it and kept going and I got about my mid 30s and was like “Now what am I going to do for 40?” I’ve got to do something kind of cool and I had this always creeping in the back of my mind that man, I could really up the ante here for 40. So I started my journey. I went out and bought a bike and just kind of slow, but sure got there and then saved the full Ironman for 40 and I chose Ironman Wisconsin at the time and it’s an epic course with great people there and it happened to also be just a week before my birthday itself. So all in all it was like the perfect 40th birthday present.

Vanessa: That’s incredible. Thank you so much for sharing that with us. What can you tell us about the tip that you have for us today?

Julie: My tip is take those race rehearsals seriously. So TriDot plan gives us two race rehearsals, four weeks out and then another two weeks out before your race and that is for you to really dial in like the bike and the run and those type of things before your race. For me it’s wear your race kit. Eat your proper dinner the night before. Get that planned sleep like you would before a race. Get up and eat exactly what you would eat before a race. Dial in that nutrition for the bike and the run. Know exactly what you’re going to do and have that plan. Have that power plan. All those simple things that aren’t so simple on race day, do them on those race rehearsals. Make those mistakes, but also realize what you did really well and capitalize on those things too. If you take those seriously, when you go into race day the confidence that comes to you will be there so much more because you’re like, yeah I did this. I already practiced this. This is such a great thing that TriDot does for us to practice and to get those little things down that really make a big impact overall on race day.

Vanessa: That’s an excellent tip. So how far in advance do you begin preparing for this race rehearsal? Is it something that you start when you are in your race prep phase or what do you think?

Julie: Umm, when I was new to TriDot I didn’t even know we were going to have race rehearsals so when I started to look at my schedule a couple weeks out, just to see what was there for me or what was on tap, I realized that they were there so then I started to say, “Okay, well I need to start planning into that just knowing hey, what am I going to wear?” You should be practicing these things as far as food and nutrition and things like that all along the way. I really wanted to say, hey this is exactly how I was going to do it. Four weeks out if I made any mistakes I’ll tweak it a little bit and then the two week out mark I’ll either change it or do the same thing again and see if it works well and if it does or if it doesn’t I know I have time to change that. Then when you go into race week you feel a little bit more confident like “Hey, I did those things correctly.”

Vanessa: Yeah. That’s great. So what happens if your race rehearsal doesn’t go as planned? What if it’s like a total disaster and then your confidence is gone? How would you overcome that situation?

Julie: First of all, don’t panic. Take a second and give yourself time to reflect on it and really look back at hey where could I change something? or did this really go wrong? or what did I do right out of that session? You’ll realize most likely it didn’t go as badly as you really thought and some of those things that you can change, you will change for the next one at the two week marker.

Outro: Thanks for joining us. Make sure to subscribe and share the TriDot podcast with your triathlon crew. For more great tri content and community, connect with us on Facebook, YouTube, and Instagram. Ready to optimize your training? Head to tridot.com and start your free trial today! TriDot – the obvious and automatic choice for triathlon training.

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