TriDot Podcast .237

The Art & Anatomy of the Modern Triathlon Race Kit

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Intro: This is the TriDot podcast. TriDot uses yourtraining data and genetic profile, combined with predictive analytics andartificial intelligence to optimize your training, giving you better results inless time with fewer injuries. Our podcast is here to educate, inspire, andentertain. We’ll talk all things triathlon with expert coaches and specialguests. Join the conversation and let’s improve together.

Andrew Harley: Welcome to the TriDot podcast. You can tell how all-in on triathlonsomeone is by what percentage of their closet is taken up by training attireand race kits. No matter how many cool cycling jerseys I have, I can always addone more to the rotation if it's pretty cool and it catches my eye. And todayon the podcast, we are talking with two industry leaders in the tri suit andapparel space. Our first guest joining us today is the Marketing Director forZoot Sports, our good friend Mark Goddard. Mark is a two-time IRONMAN finisherand a longtime supporter of Team Zoot athletes. As a company, Zoot Sports isthe leading running and triathlon sports brand, providing quality triathlonrunning and cycling apparel and wetsuits. As a community, Team Zoot was theIRONMAN 2022 World Champion Division I Tri Club. Welcome back to the TriDotpodcast!

Mark Goddard: Thanks for having me Andrew!

Andrew:Our next guest – and another group that has many TriDot athletes representingthis brand – is Soj Jibowu, a former Division I athlete turned triathlete, andthe visionary behind Varlo Sports. Established in 2019, Varlo has swiftlyemerged as a leader in the multisport and cycling apparel industry. Boasting avibrant brand community, Team Varlo, and rapidly expanding retail partnershipsincluding REI, which is a brand new partnership for them, really cool to seethat launch. Varlo has been revolutionizing the multisport arena since itsinception. With its distinctive designs and cutting-edge technical wear, Varlobrings a fresh perspective to athletic apparel, igniting excitement andinnovation in the multisport community. And Soj, you are the man behind all ofthat. Thanks so much for coming on the show to talk about tri kits. How's itgoing?

Soj Jibowu: Yo, what is up, man? Thanks for having me. I’m really excited to behere, humbled to be here with you guys. Excited for this man, let's go!

Andrew: Well I am Andrew the Average Triathlete, Voiceof the People and Captain of the Middle of the Pack. As always, we'll rollthrough our warmup question, settle in for our main set conversation about trikits, and then wind things down with Vanessa interviewing a TriDot coach forour Coach Cooldown Tip of the week. Lots of good stuff, let's get to it!

Warm up theme: Time to warm up! Let’s get moving.

Andrew:  Sports jerseys exist to help fans and playersrecognize who is who, while deep in the throngs of competition. And the designsof those jerseys can be everything from underwhelming to iconic. Mark, Soj,across the wide world of sports, what team or athlete jersey has your personalall-time favorite design? And I'm talking any sport, any jersey. Soj, what areyou picking for this?

Soj:Ah man, I'm going to go with – I've always been a massive, massive soccer fan.I think that in the sport of soccer in the UK, they call it football. How theseteams express themselves, whether it's away or home, their kits are prettycool. I would probably say one of my favorites that sticks with me still tothis day is the 2008 Arsenal away kit. It was this white on gray mirror image,and it had these hits of maroon with rust gold accents. It just still sticks inmy mind as this really cool kit. Again, not in cycling or triathlon, definitelya different sport, but just a kit that just never leaves my mind. Love it.

Andrew:Yeah, Arsenal always has some great designs. I'm going to jump in with mine,because mine is also in the realm of soccer, and then we'll hear from Mark. Butselfishly, I am a huge Miami Dolphin fan, so I've got to give a quick plug forthe Miami Dolphin throwback jerseys, which is the teal jersey with the orangeand white sleeves from the 1970s. That is my favorite Dolphins jersey, I lovethat jersey. But my answer here, also in the realm of football – and Soj, yousaid it's so cool how clubs represent themselves and where they're from intheir kits. And when you get to the international part of football/soccer,that's where you really start to see country identity branded into kits. And inmy opinion, the hottest kit every single year, whether there's a World Cupseason or whatever, whenever Nigeria drops their new international kits, theNigerian National Team soccer kits are the hottest in the World Cup field everysingle go-around. Female or male competition, they're always just so cool. Iwould love to rock one, but I would feel like such an impostor wearing that.But that's my answer here. It doesn't matter which year, which iteration, goGoogle Nigerian country soccer team. They just dropped their newest one for thenext round of the World Cup, and it lives up to the hype as always. So that'smy answer, Mark Goddard, send this your way. What do you think?

Mark:I'm going to go complete opposite of you guys.

Andrew:Okay, not soccer. Good, good variety.

Mark:Maybe it's because I grew up a Los Angeles Dodgers fan. I'm from the LosAngeles area, and currently my office – I'll probably get stuff thrown at mejust for saying this out loud – but I'm in San Diego Padres country right now,our office is in San Diego, and there's a big rivalry. And one of the one ofthe things I always knocked the Padres for is they've changed their uniformslike eight billion times, and for some reason the Los Angeles Dodger uniformhas stayed timeless through the years. I mean, they changed from Brooklyn toLA, but it's pretty much the same uniform. And I also appreciate, from abranding and merchandising standpoint, that they don't have to think about newstuff all the time, which I think is a huge relief for their design team. Butit is a uniform that, for me at least, is just iconic, and has stood up for areally long time. So that's my pick, the LA Dodgers uniform. Plus it’s baseballseason, that's just started, so if you're a baseball fan, let’s go.

Andrew:Guys, we're going to throw this question out to you, our audience, like wealways do. Make sure you're a part of the I AM TriDot Facebook group,tens of thousands of triathletes talking swim, bike, and run every single dayof the week. And the Monday that this show comes out with me, Mark and Sojkicking around this question, I will kick it over to that group to see whatsports jersey is your favorite design of all time? Can't wait to see what youhave to say.

Main set theme: On to the main set. Going in 3…2…1…

Andrew:  Triathletes and cyclists love talking abouttheir bikes, and I of course am no exception. I am so impressed by the qualityof my Dimond Marquis TT bike. Every detail has been carefully engineered andcrafted by the team at Dimond Bikes. My Marquis, complete with a custom TriDotpaint scheme, sits proudly on the set of the TriDot Triathlon YouTube show forour audience to see. Their bikes are industry-leading aerodynamic machines, andthey look awesome. But even beyond that, Dimond as a brand knows how to takecare of their athletes. And with five different tri bike models, as well asroad, gravel, and mountain bikes, your next bike should absolutely be a Dimond.TriDot and Dimond are a dynamic race-day one-two punch. Dimond provides youwith the Ferrari of bikes, and TriDot training develops your engine. So we areexcited to partner with Dimond on some really cool offers. If you are anew-to-TriDot athlete, we're offering six months of the Mark Allen Edition ofTriDot with the purchase of a Dimond bike. If you are already a TriDot athlete,we are offering a TriDot store credit with your new bike. Head to dimondbikes.com for all of the info and to dream up your veryown Dimond bike.

Everytime you race a triathlon, you hopefully are wearing something. You'd betterbe. It's in the rulebook somewhere I think that you're supposed to. Your firsttime out it might just be whatever athletic apparel you might already own, buteventually most triathletes slip themselves into a proper tri kit of some kindfor training and racing. How are those kits made? What makes some better thanothers? What should we be looking for in a race-day kit? All that and more withSoj and Mark from Varlo and Zoot. And Soj, it’s your first time on the show, soI want to start with you. You are the founder and CEO of Varlo PerformanceApparel, we talked about that in the intro. You've developed a very passionatefan base amongst triathletes and cyclists. Just tell us the story here, whatinspired you to develop and launch Varlo in the first place?

Soj:From the very early beginning, the idea was to just understand what is going onin the space of triathlon multisport, and most importantly where there may havebeen opportunities to bring something new to the space. I mean the sport oftriathlon is still I think relatively new, it's a young sport. I used to makenote of this when I would talk to people, that the three-point line inbasketball is older than triathlon.

Andrew:The Los Angeles Dodgers current uniform is older than triathlon, right?

Soj:Right, right. So there's this immense opportunity I think, to innovate and tobring something new, whether it is through apparel or how you're engaging andcommunicating with people in the space. So that way you not only grow the sportin the space, but you can engage something new for those potential participantsin the sport. I think from the very beginning I was obsessed with this. Mybackground is in product marketing, sales, etcetera. I've always been obsessedwith just making sure the quality is 100,001%. Everything, from when someonepulls it out of the bag, they feel the product, they touch it, they wear it,they put it on their body, since day one. It's like you have one chance to getthat right.

Andrew:That's such a good point, yeah.

Soj:And if you mess up on that one chance, you're done. It's toast. So however manyyears later, we still treat it the same way with product, and product designand innovation and whatever we do. I think to wrap it up and make it just neatand nice, it's truly testing with our athletes. Like our last top performancebuild, which is our Pro Element tri suit, we actually flew Cody Beals in. Wewould cut the product, moisture-test the product, and weigh the product. Thenhe would sit down and change the seam lines on where they were placed, just soit was as perfect as we could make it. And I think that type of intent is justwhat's needed to make a product great, and to make sure that what you'reputting out there works for athletes and the people in the space. So that's ourthing, what we've been up to and how it's how it's worked for us.

Andrew:Mark, you've come on the show before and shared a little bit of your history onTeam Zoot and how you ended up working with Zoot. But I want to ask it again,because it's been a minute since you've been on the show, and for folksstepping into this conversation, I want them to hear – as the MarketingDirector for Zoot, what's your role with the brand and how did you end up onthe team there?

Mark:I discovered triathlon through my three brothers. Just like that we got ropedinto doing a triathlon. For many other people who started this journey, it wasa friend or a family member that was just like, “Hey, come on, let's do this.We're doing this.” It was the Mission Bay sprint triathlon in San Diego. I usedmy surfing wetsuit and, and it was about a billion times harder than I thoughtit would be. I think my heart rate felt like it was about 300 for the wholerace. But at the end of it, it was the experience, and the stories, just howyou get it now like post-race you're talking about that stuff. I really justdug it. I like getting up early, I enjoy working out, and this is a lifestylethat allows me to continue doing that. And luckily my job, I use it as anexcuse to ride my bike at lunch and stuff, because I have to stay somewhat fitin case someone like Soj comes down and he's like, “Mark, let's go for a bikeride.” I can't just be a total –

Andrew:I hear you. Yeah, I hear you. You can't embarrass yourself and Team Zoot! Yeah,sure.

Mark:Yeah. I mean, too late for that, but I started working with the brands.Actually at the time, I was familiar with the Zoot Sports brand for a longtime, and I had worn the products before I started working there. I startedworking for K2 Sports, and one of their brands was Zoot. I was at customerservice and a dealer service manager, and it kind of just went from there. AndI feel fortunate enough to be in my current role, because we're a small crewhere and we kind of get to do everything, but my favorite part of my role atZoot is dealing with Team Zoot and our pro athletes. It's almost like achildhood dream to be able to build these relationships and develop thesedifferent communities and friendships within the sport, which is really cool.And it goes across the brand too, so I've met really cool people that sharesimilar passions.

Andrew:Yeah, and all three of us, I know, feel very fortunate to work with enduranceathletes and in the endurance space in some way shape or form. Let's get intotalking about kits and kit design! The first thing I want to ask you guys iskind of the hero items of our sports, which I consider to be tri suits, trishorts, tri jerseys. Everybody's got to have one or two or a few of all thoseitems to train and race. So when your team is designing the newest line ofthose core apparel items, what is the process like, from conceptualization ofthat item to it being on our bodies for training and racing? Soj, I'll startwith you here.  

Soj:From our side, and especially from my position running a company, it's like a30,000-foot view of all aspects. Not just the apparel merchandising side, whichis extremely important, but it's also the business management elements. Themerchandise side is definitely a part of that – great products equal valuedrive to your consumer base, your customers. And most importantly, just to makesure you're putting things out there to represent the brand well. So there'stwo elements that I try to focus on with products. The first is the utilityelement of the product, like how it is built, and is it adding value to theathlete for the performance elements. So a prime example would be like when wewere launching our Gravel line and I said, “I don't want to just bring Gravelproducts to market, there has to be a utility element that's new and that thatdrives value.” So we specifically looked at ergonomic placement, riderplacement, average athlete riders, and then also where they are stowingproduct. Are they stowing product in their rear pockets of their jerseys, thebilateral pockets of their bibs? We wanted to kind of bring it a little bitfurther, so we introduced these – I call them “retroperitoneal”, anyone in themed space knows what that means, it's like where your kidneys are – but weintroduced these two rear pockets on the bibs. Easy access lower anatomyportion, easy access to the rear, where you have these two pockets that areeasy access for the rider. So that's one aspect of building or designing the product.The same thing goes with a tri suit. Zoot does this really well, they'll say,“Okay, we want to have ice pockets in the back neck area.” It's the same kindof concept. The other concept of design, which all the listeners are going tolove. They're going to hear this and go, “Oh my goodness,” is the artisticdesign part. What does it look like, and how fun is it? What colors do you use?How's the design done? I’ve got to be honest with you, man. A lot of that isway more technical and research-driven then you would probably think.

Andrew:Interesting, yeah.

Soj:There's definitely an element of fun-ness to it, like, “Hey, this looks fun,let's do this. Hey, this is fun, let's do that. Let's do these wacky colors.”There's definitely that side to it. But there's also a side to it where thedata will suggest that this is our profile community, this is what they'relooking for. They're looking for these colors, they're looking for thispattern, this pattern is going to do well. Then we will position and produce itin that likeness, because we know what our consumers are looking for. We knowwhat our customers are looking for, so we produce that. Then most importantly,the beauty of the triathlon space – I think everyone does this, whether you'reZoot, or Varlo, or you're one of the other brands that are in the space – youlisten. You actually just listen. It's so simple, but you listen to what yourcommunity is looking for, and you pay attention, and you produce what theywant. I think that part should not be forgotten. With all that stuff summed upand bottled up, we draw it out, we create a merch plan, we kind of plug andchug where it's going to fall into the year, we build it out, and then we hitthe button for “go” and then that's it!

Andrew:And then I get an email in my inbox and it shows me the newest designs, and I'mlike, “Ooh, that's really cool looking!” Because they researched that I thoughtit would be really cool looking. That's super interesting. Mark, is thereanything in that process that's additional or different that you want to add tothe conversation, that Team Zoot walks through to build kits?

Mark:So first and foremost, the product is driven by function. A lot of people maynot know this, but Zoot started in 1983 on the Big Island of Hawaii. That's whya lot of our collections and stuff really tie in to the Hawaiian aesthetic andall that jazz. But there was a girl, she was a seamstress on the island, hername was Christal Nylan. She still lives there today. She's a fine artist, soif you guys are in Kona, go visit her art gallery. We still visit all the time.But really what happened was, she had a lot of friends racing the IRONMAN. Andthey're basically like, “Hey, could you sew my run singlet to my cyclebottoms?” No one used bibs back then, they were just shorts. So she made threeprototypes. We actually have the first one still here – and this is how Zootgot its name – it kind of looks like a zoot suit, and it was a sleeves suit,and the chamois was basically a dish towel.

Andrew:It looks cozy! Yeah.

Mark:Really, it was people that were wanting to save a few seconds or minutes in thetransition, and from changing out. I've been working for Zoot for ten yearsnow, and even in my tenure, just to see the trend – from tri tank and tribottom, to sleeveless one-piece, to full-sleeve, all this stuff – it's prettycool to see the evolution of it. We have our suit, so you go from that to this,with the seams that are all flat-lock seams, and all this cool stuff with allthis fabric that comes out. You know, sometimes things don't work for the kits– I think is one of your later questions – but we do use our pros, just likeSoj was talking with Cody Beals, is like “Hey, we want to create a really goodsuit.” And we kind of know what works, we have a history of what works and whatdoesn't. So this was our newest suit, the P1 we've had for a couple of years,with welded seams and all this crazy stuff, and every once in a while it mighttest well, but then it just sucks once we make it. Either it's uncomfortable,or –

Andrew:Is it the pros getting out on the race course and reporting that back to you?Is that where you hear about that afterwards when something sucks?

Mark:Well, it starts with us, because we're athletes too, we still race. We rideevery day, we run. The owner is an avid athlete, triathlete still. We know whatwe like so it starts with us, and then we ask our team and we ask our pros, anddepending on what the product is, we'll get feedback. But I think there’s acouple things that a lot of people don't realize. Same as with a bike setup,what works for a pro is not necessarily going to work for John and Jane Doe.Everyone's different. You have a different body type than I do, than Soj does.So what may be really, really fast on someone, may not be as fast on someoneelse. So you try to offer as much as you can, and help the customer and thetriathlete find what works for them. It may not be the best suit. Just like inwetsuits, it's not always the most expensive wetsuit that is the best suit foryou. That's why we really rely on our Team Zoot members, and they're so goodabout talking to each other like, “Well, I like this because of X, Y, and Z.”Or, “I like that, this is what I use.” You kind of find what works for you. Butalso think, coming to suits and design and aerodynamics, and with our recentjoint acquisition last year with the Castelli Group with having a lot moreresources to test stuff. We just sent some of our suits to the wind tunnel withCastelli to test against their super cycle suits, and they've got many moreyears of data than we do about the fabrics and all this kind of stuff. Butthey're just riding, the cycle suits are only for riding a bike, and you’ve gotto run a marathon, and that is the most important feedback that we get from ourpros. It could be fast on the bike, but you still have to run a marathon inthis suit, so it'd better be comfortable on the run. And our goal, at leastwith our products, is for you to not have to think about what you're wearing onrace day. So if someone asks you, “How was the suit?” And you go, “I guess itwas good because I didn't have any problems.” That's a W, that's really coolfeedback to get. It's all fun though, but we're always trying to make somethinga little bit better, or faster, or “Hey, how could I tweak this? How could Itweak that?” So sometimes you hit a home run, and sometimes you strike out, Iguess.

Andrew:What's that process look like for landing on, “This is the fabric we're goingto use, this is the chamois we're going to use, and this is the zipper we'regoing to use,” and all those kinds of things. Mark, what is that like for TeamZoot?

Mark:Samples. Most of the really good fabrics are coming out of Italy. I think acouple of years ago we used this sleeved fabric that was the most dimpledaerodynamic fabric, I think they called it Drag Zero or something, and itactually wasn't that good once we started using it. And I'll bring zippers intothe conversation, because even a lot of people don't know, a zipper has to holdeverything in. These suits are very tight.

Andjust a caveat of trying your suit on, I think most people out there are usingsuits that are too big. These suits are designed to perform when they fitproperly, so a very tight suit. If aerodynamics are your thing, you know thatwrinkles are bad. I think Jim Madden said, “Fabric is faster than skin, butwrinkles are slower.” So wrinkles are bad, especially when they get wet. Thatsame suit that didn't chafe you at all during the 70.3 Oceanside, you couldrace the 70.3 in Chattanooga and that same suit could just destroy you. There'sa lot of outside factors – the salt content of the water, your sweat right onthat day – there's a lot of things that factor race-to-race. So if you'reunsure about your size or something, ask someone. Because I see even pros, I’mlike, “What size is your suit?” And they're like, “Well, I'm a large.” And I'mlike, “What? How much do you weigh? You are not, you're like a small.” Thenusually they put it on and they're like, “Oh, yeah, that actually fits megood.” There's a lot of these little cool things that these suits have that areadvantageous, that you're not thinking about, such as carbon in the chamois tohelp it dissipate heat and water and stuff like that. But most importantly, ifyou like the suit, it's like putting on an actual suit or a really nice dress.If you're like, “Damn, I look good in that,” and if you're stoked on it, Idon't care what brand it is. I don't care what the design is. If you like it,then you're more apt to race, and you're going to be more excited on race dayto be in the suit. So that's the first thing, is you’ve got to like the way itlooks on you, and if it’s comfortable. If the suit’s comfortable for you, thenthat's the right suit for you.

Andrew:Soj, same thing over to you. Is there anything you want to add to that bit ofthe conversation as the Varlo crew goes and finds the fabrics and the zippersand the chamoises that you want to put into a kit?

Soj:Yeah, as he's talking, I'm shaking my head and laughing. Because I distinctlyremember one athlete in particular being like, “Hey, the zipper doesn't staystill. It just rips open.”

Andrew:Yeah, it shouldn't do that.

Soj:And I was like, “Hey, you know you can just hit the zipper down. Just flip itdown and it’ll lock.” And they're like, “Oh, I didn't know that!” But I thinkthe biggest thing is sampling, and like what Mark said, you can have an idea orconcept, one thing in your mind that you're like, “Okay, this should workbecause of XYZ.” Then you build a kit out of it and it's like, “No, that doesnot work.” So my background, I was a market manager, I was a key accountmanager, I was doing all that stuff. So when I wanted to do Varlo, I had tolearn everything top-to-bottom on fabrics and apparel. Learning all that stufftakes time. It’s its own thing, so you can't shortcut that. If you ignore thatstuff, eventually it's going to show. I know without a doubt, Mark or I canprobably pick up a kit and go, “Oh, this is made with a lot of polyester. Howare the seams stitched, what kind of thread did they use for the seams? Is itpolyester thread, or is it a nylon thread?” There’s a big difference. Polyesteryou're going to get chafed, nylon's going to reduce the chafe, in the threadthat you use. We’re talking about the thread that you use, all that stuffmatters. So I think it always comes down to “test, test, test, sample, sample,sample”. Be creative, be mindful, be thoughtful. Kind of have this idea of whatyou can build and what should be built, but there really are no rules to it.The only rule is that it has to bring value to the athlete wearing it. That'sliterally the only rule. Other than that, create and build, and be creative andmindful.

Mark:Anyone who's done custom with either our brand or from another brand, they knowtoo that it has to all work together. You may have this idea, and then thedesigner that has been designing these suits for a really long time, they’relike, “Well, that's going to look jacked up because of this or that. We have todo this so it'll look better.” So basically sublimation is the printing offabric, for those of you guys who don't know. We started doing it some yearsago, which was really kind of rudimentary at the time. Most people were doingjust dye, if you think of the old kits. This is our core race suit, which is ano-frills, solid color. The fabric is actually dyed, and then we heat-transferthe logo on, so this is kind of old school. Some people really still like it.Think of like your old cycle shorts, that's a dyed fabric, and then thesublimation is the print. So basically you're printing on fabric, which isreally cool, which really allows companies like ours to do really cool designsand make your vision come to life. Whether it's something that you see from ourweb stores, or custom that you want to do, which is really cool. And some ofthe fabric too, samples and tests, some of these brands and even some of thepros want the lightest fabric ever. I always just tell them to shave your head.

Andrew:It’s more aero, it’s more sweat. It's going to whisk sweat away, having a baldhead.  Yeah.

Mark:Sometimes you see it, even some pros, if they use a really, really thin fabric,then the logos bleed into the fabric, and it just doesn't look good. Then I'msure Soj, when he sees that stuff too he's like, “Oh come on, man, that lookshorrible!” That looks horrible for this pro kit. So there is that balance, andthere's only so much you could do, and you want it to have a little bit ofdurability. All these paper-thin fabrics and really, really minimal seams, theypay a price. Because people on race day are not gentle with their stuff, andthey're not thinking about that until afterwards, which is pretty cool. Andwhen you talk about fabric testing and stuff, sometimes you try something thatdoesn't work, but it can lead into something else. A few years ago, one of ourpro athletes that we've had for a really long time, Ben Hoffman, he wastargeting Kona, Kona, Kona, that's his race. He came close, he got second once.But one year he’s like, “You know, with sunscreen on I sweat differently thanwithout sunscreen.” His sweat rate was different when wearing sunscreen, so hewanted a long-sleeved kit for Kona. We made him a kit, we tested it. He did allthat stuff, he was in Maui earlier, and we made him a full-sleeved kit forKona. I forgot the fabric name of it, AeroMax fabric or something, thatactually had xylitol – the same stuff that's in your mint in your gum – woveninto the fabric. And as you put water on it and wind goes by it, it actuallycools, which is really cool, and it gives you some protection. But there wasjust something about that wasn't the same, it just didn't work for race day. Hestill had an okay race, but it just wasn't good. So we never made that into arace suit, but we did trickle it down into a cycle top, which happens to be oneof my favorite cycle tops because it kind of works for all situations. So it isabout experimenting in real world conditions.

Andrew:As a customer, I think it gives us a lot of confidence to know that you guysaren't just picking stuff and throwing it into a product line and riding it aslong as you can. You are out there and trying to innovate, and trying todetermine what could be the next big thing for your athletes. And along the wayyou have missteps. You realize them, then you put that to the side and you fixthe product. Just hearing both brands do that, for me, gives me a lot ofconfidence in what you do put out on the market. So just educate us, when weare looking for training kits, when we're looking for that all-important racekit, and it matters what we're putting in our bodies for race day, what shouldwe be looking for out of our apparel? What are some signs that something isworking well with our bodies, fits our body well, and is made from qualitycomponents? Just educate us – other than buying Zoot and Varlo, which we cancertainly do, we can play it safe just by buying Zoot and Varlo – but beyondthat, what are some things we could be looking for to know we're purchasing aquality kit and have a good kit for race day?

Soj:Number one, if you're making the purchase, if you're investing your hard-earnedmoney, I go back to the simplicity of these are people that have a job, theywork, they have kids, they have their home life. But they choose to supportyour brand, they choose to spend their hard-earned money on your brand. Ibelieve it's your duty to make sure that you're delivering something great tothem. So making sure that you're working with a brand or company thatunderstands that and receives that – are they going to take care of you ifthere's something wrong? Have they established that credibility as a brand tobe someone that does the detailed work and the detailed research anddevelopment on products? Number one, I think that speaks volumes for any brand.And then number two, I think you guys have both already said it, which is doesit work for you? You have to respect that. Something that works for ParticipantABC may not work for you, and that is okay. That doesn't mean that something iswrong, it just means it doesn't work for you, because everyone is different.Some people are tall, some people are short. I know us as a brand, and Ibelieve Zoot as a brand, has different tiered products. We have the Pro Elementversion, we have the Summit Version. With custom we have the Mezza version,which is product that is tiered per athlete depending on where they're at intheir journey. Zoot has the same thing with their tiered product offering. Sothat speaks to an athlete that is at this part of their journey. Maybe an athleteis at that part of their journey. Or if they're a newcomer to the sport, thisis where they're at. So is the product right for them, and does it fit them?Because I think all too often we as participants, as athletes and triathletes,maybe we get so focused on the shiny glitz and glamor of what is cool and whatis needed. Like, “Hey, so-and-so is doing this, so I have to get thiskit.”  And then you walk out and you'relike, “That doesn't fit you.” Because the build is not necessarily for you. Butthere is a product that is for you, that does work for you. And that'sindependent of Varlo. It may not be Varlo, it might be brand so-and-so.

Andrew:Within the kits, is it just a budget thing where the more money you spend, thenicer the kit is regardless of who you are? Or is each line of kits gearedtowards different types of athletes, or as you say it, where they're at intheir journey?

Soj:You're definitely paying for potentially a little bit more of the innovation inthe product, but I would dare to say for the athlete that is looking for thebenefits that are going to come with that, those are probably individuals thatare measuring minutes, they are measuring their wattage. They're measuring allof those elements of the performance of that product. If you're a newcomer tothe sport, and this is your first race and you're new to the journey – you’restarting to learn stuff, you're trying to figure it out – but you don't need togo out and buy that product because that's not necessarily for you. You canstill buy a product that offers great benefits – four-way stretch, it may stillhave some of the hydrophobic properties of a great kit so that you can movegreat in the water and all those things – but you don’t necessarily need wovenfabric, you don't need seamless integrated grippers. Because for where you'reat in your journey, it's not going to make a difference necessarily on what yourperformance is going to be, because it's still new to you. I don't know if thatanswers your question, but I hope that helps some of the viewers out there whoare still trying to figure out, “Hey, I'm new to this sport, I'm trying tonavigate.”

Andrew:“Do I need that $400 kit?” Yeah.

Soj:Depending on where you're at in your journey. Maybe you are at that place whereyou have that A race coming up, and you're a seasoned athlete in the space,then that kit is probably going to assist with your performance. I know withlike a wetsuit – and Mark can definitely speak on this up and down, left andright on wetsuits – but you kind of hit the nail on the head where thoseultra-high Halo product wetsuits are made for athletes who are at that prolevel, who have that professional swim form. They have a really, really strongswim background where they arguably may not need a wetsuit, because they'rethat good. But from a performance element, it may definitely help.

Mark:The answer is, “Do we NEED anything?” Not really, right? I’m afraid this is thewrong thing to say to try to sell product.

Andrew:Do we NEED any of the stuff that we want? No, we don’t need it.

Mark:No, but it's fun. Sometimes it's just fun to buy cool stuff. It makes you feelgood, it makes you think you're going to ride faster, run faster, swim faster.The two full IRONMANs that I've done in my past, it was in like the basic suitbefore, and it was fine. I finished and I was happy. But back to what Soj wassaying, everyone's different. We actually came out – and shout-out to Amy onTeam Zoot in our Colorado region – but a big thing that we did this year was –we start a lot of stuff with Team Zoot and then we kind of roll it to our endline – is making a different size chart for bigger female athletesspecifically. Because as you're bigger, you can't just grade it big, you haveto make a whole new size. And we had a lot of feedback from them, and wecreated our new Athena sizing for one-piece race suits, which people arereally, really stoked on, but it may not work for everyone. Our stuff may notwork for everyone. Heck, everything we make, it doesn't all work for me. So Iurge everyone – and I'm just going to use the Varlo example because Soj is herewith me – but if you're on Team Zoot and you shell out and pay retail to go toVarlo, if you're in the market for something, test out another brand, becauseyou might like it. You might not like everything, but you might like their runbra better than ours, or whatever. It's okay. People don't really need to be sodogmatic in their triathlon brands. It's really cool to see different peoplewearing different stuff and trying different things. It might work for you. Andif anyone that's listening to this podcast – I don't know if it's okay to dothis, Andrew, but I want to urge them, if they haven't tried anything from ourofferings – I've set up a code for everyone that listens to this where they cansave 30% off just by trying something with the code TDOT.  You can put that in the show notes.

Andrew:Could not be more simple. Yeah, could not be more simple, TDOT.

Soj:Yeah, just to try it. And if you don't like it, we have a really great returnpolicy. Send it back and we'll take care of you. But I do urge you to trydifferent stuff. I do. I urge everyone that's dogmatic Zoot to at least sign upfor the Varlo email subscription, and maybe they send a design out that youlike.

Andrew:I want to ask you guys two quick questions. This one we’ll be quick about, andthen I want to give you the chance to talk about Team Zoot and Team Varlo. So avery quick answer on this one – how do you guys feel on the age-old question ofwhich is better, two-piece race kit or one-piece race kit? Mark, what do youthink?

Mark:One-piece, hundred percent.

Andrew:Okay, Mark is a one-piece guy. Soj, what do you think?

Soj:For me, I'm a one-piece person.

Andrew:Okay. I am also a one-piece person. So we are overruling anybody listening thathas an affinity for two pieces. Last question – one thing I love about workingfor TriDot is that athletes can train with TriDot and can absolutely wear aTriDot hat or something at the races, but then they can be on Team Varlo, theycan be on their local tri club, they can be on Team Zoot. We just love that weget to collaborate with other brands because of that. We meet other brandsbecause of that, we get guys like you on our podcast because of that. Soshout-out to all of our TriDotters listening who are Team Varlo or Team Zoot.Let’s just shut down our episode with this today – just tell us what yourcommunity of athletes means to you, because I know you guys go hard in supportingyour own athlete community. Tell us what role your athletic community plays inthe development, advancement, and testing of your brand's products. We'll startwith Soj here, and close down with Mark.

Soj:Every time that we get a moment to talk as a community, we start with threesimple principles of who we are as a group, as a team, as a collective body ofhuman beings. Number one is that empowerment is the cornerstone of ourcommunity. Number two is that alone we go fast, but together we go further. Andthe third one is that together we can do anything. We can achieve anything as acollective group. That is truly who we are as a group, and who we are as abody. Right now, and this has been this way since conception, our team is theheartbeat of who we are as an organization. It’s who we are as a brand. It'salso what drives me to do what I do every single day, every morning, everynight, the long nights, the nights that turn into days, the weekdays that turninto weekends. It's for supporting our community. Then most importantly, as abrand, as we continue to develop new products, as we continue to touch on newthings, how we can drive value, it's all stemming from our brand community,Team Varlo, which has grown from an ambassadorship program once upon a time, tothe to the collective body of people that it is now, whether it's domestic orinternationally. So as we continue to grow, as we continue to do what we do asa brand and as a community, our simple thing is this – we will never ask anyoneon our team to go on Instagram and make a funny dance, or a TikTok video. Wedon't say that, it's not a criteria. Our criteria as far as a brand communityis very, very simple, and it's easily said on the calls, the team engagementsthat we have as a group. It's to look to the person that's on your left of thescreen, look to the person that's on your right, and to empower them, to bewith them. Because again, together we go further. We will accomplish amazing thingsas a group. They know this because I get to speak with them, or Colleen, ourTeam Director, but I tell everyone thank you. “Thank you for what we have doneas a community.” And this is the founder, right? As a community, we are simplywhere we are right now because of the people who believe in what we do.  The people who listen, who hear us, but mostimportantly they say, “How can I help? How can I be involved? What can I do tomake sure that I'm empowering the next person that comes into the sport. Andmost importantly, how can I help grow the sport?” That is the big thing. Sothat’s what I'll say – anyone that is listening from Team Varlo, thank you foreverything that you do. Thank you for listening to this podcast. Thank you,Andrew, with TriDot. You guys are absolutely amazing. Thank you, thank you.

Mark:I get so protective of Team Zoot. It's like reading comments on anything,people are going to hate on it unless you're a part of it.

Andrew:Sure, we get that at TriDot. We get that.

Mark:It started as an elite team of athletes, and it was pretty small for a reallylong time. But just being racers, myself and the owner Sean in particular,being out on course and still racing the events – and this was years ago, like2012, 2013 – people were like, “Go Team Zoot!” and we were like, “Man, that’sso cool!”  Then we're just like, “Let'sjust ramp it up.” Even if it's only for the support on race day, if that isramped up, if that's all we get out of it, it's worth it. And it's really  grown to this really cool community thatpeople support. They’re like, “Hey, I'm in town from Texas. Does anyone haveany good routes?  Does anyone want toride on Saturday?” Just all that really small stuff that connects people. Oneof my favorite parts of the job is just the people I've met through thisambassador team, whether it's just on Instagram or in real life. We do have afairly large team around the country, and I'm really bad with names, justhorrible. But you're working the expo, you're helping customers, you're meetinglike eight billion people. But I love when people stop by and they're like,“Hey Mark, what's going on? How's it going?” Then we become friends. Or maybeas the reverse, they start following me on Instagram, we follow each other, andthen I meet them at a race and it's just like, “Oh, dude, what's up?”

Andrew:Yep. Oh yeah, I love it.

Mark:It's my favorite part of the job. And kind of like Soj with Varlo, we don'thave requirements. When we started this ambassador team, people had these triteams going on and it's like, “Oh they're just all gnarly and serious, andyou've got to fill out an application, and you've got to do all this stuff, andit costs money to join.” And I'm just like, “Dude, screw that, that's lame.” Nomoney to join, we'll get you killer discounts on all of our gear and partnergear, which is really cool. Because we own our own factory, we can give ourteam a really, really steep discount which is awesome. And then just be cool.That's it. There's two things that you have to do – be cool, and introducetriathlon to someone else. Whether it's a coworker, or a family member, andyou're like, “Hey, let's go for one run this year.” Maybe you could ignitesomething in them to take up this sport that we all love and we're superpassionate about. So those are the only two requirements to be on Team Zoot. Sowhen I see people out in the wild – and I'll just leave with this example – anyof my Team Zooters that follow me on Instagram know I just got a dog a couplemonths ago. You'll find this out, Andrew, when your kids are like, “We can't bewithout a dog.” So we got a dog, and she's just awesome. She's got more energythan anything I've ever seen, so it's really kind of gotten me back intorunning. So I was running in my neighborhood, I live in a little communitycalled Dana Point in Southern California. I'm running down the street, and Ihave my Team Zoot shirt on, and across the street there was a guy just walkinghis dog in work clothes, and he’s like, “Hey, Team Zoot! I'm on the team!” Iwas on a high for the rest of the day, it was so cool. And if I'm driving onthe street and I see someone riding, I'm like honking on the horn and like,“What up?!”  It's just really cool tohave those little connections. Because at the end of the day, no one cares whatyour Kona time was. Yeah, it’s cool you did sub-10:00 at whatever IRONMAN,that's awesome. I'm not downing it, but that's not what I want to hear. I wantto hear about how you get there, and what you are doing, just the other stuff.The triathlon just makes us come together a little bit easier.

Cool down theme: Great set everyone! Let’s cool down.

Vanessa Ronksley: Hello, everyone! I'm Vanessa, your AverageTriathlete with Elite-Level Enthusiasm, and I am super excited about the CoachCooldown Tip that we have for you today. With me is Chad Rolfs, who has acareer as a Senior Quality Engineer on the Photoshop team with Adobe, andfocuses on customer digital painting and usability workflows. He has beenmarried for 21 years and lives in Shoreline just north of Seattle with hiswife, two sons, and his adorable corgi named Cheeto. Chad was a Div I All-Americanswimmer in college, and was recently inducted into the Washington StateSwimming Hall of Fame. Congratulations on that, Chad, that is a massiveaccomplishment! On the triathlon side of things, he's completed multipleOlympic-distance triathlons and 70.3s, including Worlds in 2021, and he'scurrently training for his second full-distance tri. Chad has been coachingwith TriDot for over a year, and is a Certified TriDot Pool School Instructor.He loves coaching beginners and intermediates, and works mainly withlong-course athletes, all while specializing in swimming. Welcome to thecooldown Chad, it's great to have you here!

Chad Rolfs: It is great to be here. It's such a blessing, thanks, Vanessa.

Vanessa:I hear that you used to collect diecast cars from the Pixar movie cars. Pleaseenlighten me as to what a diecast car is, and then how you came to collectthem.

Chad:Oh yeah, my inner child is alive and well. So the diecast car, they'rebasically Hot Wheels cars that Mattel makes. But they're the Pixarmovie-branded cars. They have eyes on them and everything. When both of my boyswere little we would watch the Pixar movies, and that was one of their favoritemovies. I even have some video of them riding their bikes with training wheelson in the driveway, and one of them was Chick Hicks and the other one wasLightning McQueen, and they’re like, “Kachigga! Kachigga!” and having a goodtime. So for birthdays and Christmas they wanted those cars, they wanted thecharacters, so they started getting them. And they had so many characters, Iwas like, “I don't remember all those characters in the movie!” But you look atall the races, in the pit, all over, like even helicopters and stuff. So Istarted buying them. I still have boxes of them, still shrink-wrapped in boxesin the garage. So yeah, I just love the design, the creativeness, theartisticness of it, the uniqueness. It's just fun.

Vanessa:  Yeah. Something that I do love about havingkids is it kind of allows you to tap into your inner child a little bit more,and it brings out those things that you love. And it's like, “Well this isacceptable because I have a child.” Like I can dance to music in thesupermarket because I have a child who I'm trying to entertain.

Chad:Totally agree. Yeah, like I said, it's important to get in touch with yourchild, and kids definitely give you an excuse and some extra leeway.

Vanessa:Well, let's totally change gears here. I want to hear about this tip. I'mreally excited to hear about it because I know it's a swim tip, and you'reprobably one of the fastest swimmers that I know. So could you please sharewith us this swim tip and help us shave off some seconds in the water?

Chad:The more relaxed and comfortable you are, the faster you're going to swim.Being tense wastes energy and it decreases your range of motion. And one thingthat can have you get tensed up is having your goggles fog up. I know a lot ofpeople struggle with that, or they buy other products to help reduce thatfogging. I've never found something that worked, so the tip I have is – andyou've heard Coach Raines and others talk about before you get in the water,before you have your wetsuit, have a bottle of water and pour water down yourwetsuit. Take some of that water and put it in your goggles. Have just a littlebit of water in your goggles, they won't ever fog up. Because in the course ofyou breathing and moving your head, it is always washing the fog off, if thereis any, so you don't ever have it. That’s the first tip I have.

Vanessa:That's a really good tip. So make sure that you don't have foggy goggles,because the ultimate goal is to stay relaxed and smooth in the water.

Chad:Yeah, and you don't have to worry about that. You don't have to worry aboutyour vision being occluded. Yeah, you can relax and swim, keep your stroketechnique in line, and not have to worry about it.

Vanessa:You know, I find that the foggy goggles are a huge problem in open water,because there's so much less visibility in open water than there is in a pool.So it's just that extra little bit of tension that you're going to have. You'relike, “I can't see, I can't see anything anyways,” and then it's just thatlittle bit of anxiety that could make you tense up in other places in yourbody. So that's definitely a good tip, yeah.

Chad:Yeah, it's something you can practice in the pool too. Like you're in aworkout, and just put a little water in there, and then just don't take yourgoggles off for your whole hour of swimming.

Vanessa:Yeah, exactly right. That’s fun. So you said you also had a little half tip,because we're doing like one and a half tips today.

Chad:Sure. So bonus tip, this only really kind of applies to pool swimming. When youpush off the wall, that's your fastest momentum, is coming off the wall. Thetip I have is to not breathe that first stroke. Because when you come off thewall, you have that momentum, take a stroke or two first before you breathe.Because as soon as you take a breath, that can tend to take your body out ofposition and immediately slow you down. You want to keep that momentum going aslong as you can and maintain that, and the best way to do that is coming offthe wall, a good streamline, taking a few strokes, then breathing. It's hard,especially if you're doing flip turns and you're blowing your air out as you'redoing the flip turn and as you're coming off the wall, you're like “I'm out ofair!” But if you can discipline yourself to do that, it'll help your lungcapacity, but also increase your speed, over the course of every wall thatyou're pushing off of.

Outro:Thanks for joining us. Make sure to subscribe and share the TriDot podcast withyour triathlon crew. For more great tri content and community, connect with uson Facebook, YouTube, and Instagram. Ready to optimize your training? Head totridot.com and start your free trial today! TriDot – the obvious and automaticchoice for triathlon training.

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