TriDot Podcast .240

The Hot Topic: Heat Adaptation for Triathletes

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Intro: This is the TriDot podcast. TriDot uses yourtraining data and genetic profile, combined with predictive analytics andartificial intelligence to optimize your training, giving you better results inless time with fewer injuries. Our podcast is here to educate, inspire, andentertain. We’ll talk all things triathlon with expert coaches and specialguests. Join the conversation and let’s improve together.

Andrew Harley: Hey there everyone! We all know racing in hot or even warm conditionspresents a different kind of challenge from a race that is a little more comfycozy. And succeeding in a hotter race takes a lot of prep and a little bit ofknow-how, and that is what we're covering on the show today. Our first coachjoining us to talk about this is Kurt Madden. Kurt is a pioneer of the sport,and is a double-digit Kona finisher. He has three top-ten finishes at theIRONMAN World Championships, is a four-time North American age-group champion,and also is a four-time number one world ranked age group IRONMAN All WorldAthlete. Kurt is also a two-time Ultraman World Champion, and in 2019 wasinducted into the Ultraman World Championship Hall of Fame. In addition, he hasa Master’s degree in Exercise Physiology, and he is the Head of CoachDevelopment for TriDot. Coach Kurt, welcome back to the show!

Kurt Madden: It is just awesome to be back! And I have a sense today that things aregoing to be heating up just a little bit.

Andrew:Yes sir, that is the whole point of the episode. I know where I live in Texas,things are starting to heat up, so this conversation is right on time. Alsowith us is TriDot coach Caleb Chapman. Caleb is a longtime TriDot Ambassadorwho began coaching with TriDot in 2023. He works full-time as a Comptroller atDetail, Mold and Manufacturing, and trains, races, and coaches as a passionproject of sorts. Caleb is a World Championship qualifier himself, a TriDotPool School instructor, and an IRONMAN U Certified Coach. Caleb, thanks so muchfor joining us for your very first full-length episode of the TriDot Podcast!

Caleb Chapman: Oh thank you, Andrew! I'm excited to be on a full episode, even if alittle nervous.

Andrew:Yeah, sure. No worries there, Kurt and I know what we're doing, so it's goingto go great. If nothing else, two of the three of us know what we're doing. Iam Andrew the Average Triathlete, Voice of the People and Captain of the Middleof the Pack. As always, we'll roll through our warmup question, settle in forour main set conversation, and then wind things down with our cooldown.

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Warm up theme: Time to warm up! Let’s get moving.

Andrew:  Triathlon gear comes into our lives, andeventually it goes out of our lives. We buy it, we love it, we use it, andeventually, for one reason or another we move on from it. Sometimes we trashthings, sometimes we give things away, sometimes we sell them. Regardless ofwhat you did with it or why you moved on, our warmup question today is, what isone triathlon-related item that you got rid of, but wish you had not. Caleb,first time on the podcast, what's your answer here, buddy?

Caleb:I thought this was a pretty good question.

Andrew:Thanks, Caleb!

Caleb:I had the FORM goggles for a while. If you don't know about them, they'rereally cool. You get an augmented reality that displays pretty much yourreal-time pace in your goggles while you swim. It can also show a bunch ofother metrics like how far you swam, your heart rate, so it's pretty cool. Butfor whatever reason for me, it didn't really track my pace correctly, so Iended up selling them to another TriDotter. Well, now they've come out with anew version that has a load of new features. It can tell you what your headposition is doing, sighting straight in open water. My only problem is theyhave a subscription model now, and I have a problem with buying a product andthen paying for the subscription.

Andrew:Totally understand that hesitation with FORM. I myself am pretty jazzed upabout the second edition of the goggles. I have the 1st edition, so I'll haveto see if I can sweet talk somebody at FORM into letting me test out one of thesecond editions of those goggles. Good answer here, Caleb. Kurt Madden, what isyour answer to this question?

Kurt:Andrew, I want to say, honestly you did stump me on this one. You did, you hadme on the mat. I'm looking up like, “Oh, my gosh, I'm going to get pinned onthis one.” But I thought through it, because I do have think time. But back inthe day if you can imagine, there was a sunglass company called Gargoyles. AndI was very fortunate that I was with Nike, but somehow we got a kind of anothersponsorship from Gargoyle. So I had every type of Gargoyle sunglasses that youcan imagine. And if you know this guy – what's his name, Arnold Schwarzenegger?The Terminator, yeah. Those glasses right there, back in the 80s, those wereepic sunglasses that have. And I wish, if I could go back in time, I shouldhave saved one pair just for memory, just to say, “Wow, those were the bestthing to have at the time.”

Andrew:Well, and sunglass fashion in endurance sports has ebbed and flowed over theyears, right? Because back in the day there were the big huge ones, and thenLance Armstrong cycled in the more minimalist models, and now the big huge onesare back in. And yeah Kurt, those probably would have come and gone in and outof fashion a couple of times, and probably would be a good fit right now at theraces.

Myanswer here, I wish I still had my Garmin Forerunner 920XT. Long-timetriathletes will know that model, it either came in and black and blue or redand white. It was before they went to the circle interface, it had a squarewatch face. That one fit me great, I just loved the features of it. I do have anewer one, I have the Garmin 965. I got rid of the 920 and got a newer one. Theonly feature I like on the new one is the fact that I can push my Spotifyplaylist to the watch. That, admittedly, is pretty cool. But everything else –the buttons are different, like this is totally like “old man”, “get off mylawn”, but I can't figure out the buttons. I press the wrong button to doanything. Anytime I'm trying to do something I press the wrong button, becauseI'm so used to the 920XT I had for years. I found the 920 more comfortable onmy wrist. The 965 starts itching my wrist and I have to take it off afterwearing it for a couple hours, whereas I lived in the 920. I'm actually at thepoint where I'm like, “Can I sell this newer one? And does anybody on planetEarth still have a 920 XT that I can buy?” I'm going to be looking into that.That's my answer here, it actually inspired this question because I was on eBaylooking at 920XTs the other day and thought up this question.

We'regoing to throw this question out to you, our audience. I want to hear what youhave to say. Of all the triathlon gear you've had, whether it's a pair ofrunning shoes, or something in the water, or something for your bike that maybeyou had and you sold it and you wish you still had it. Very curious to hear,from all the tri gear you've used over the years, what is one thing that youmoved on from that you wish you still had?

Main set theme: On to the main set. Going in 3…2…1…

Andrew:  Before we get too deep into the show today, Iwant to give a shout out to our good friends at UCAN. Here at TriDot, we arehuge believers in using UCAN to fuel our training and racing. In the crowdedfield of nutrition companies, what separates UCAN from the pack is the sciencebehind LIVSTEADY, the key ingredient in UCAN products. While most energypowders are filled with sugar or stimulants that cause a spike and crash, UCANenergy powders, powered by LIVSTEADY, deliver a steady release of complex carbsto give you stable blood sugar and provide long-lasting energy. I personallyfuel my workouts with the orange-flavored Edge gel and the unflavored UCANenergy powder. Between their energy mix, energy bars, almond butter and more,there is definitely a LIVSTEADY product that you will love. So head to theirwebsite, ucan.co, and use thecode TRIDOT to save 20% on your entire order. Now that code used to be 10%, butthe fine folks at UCAN have upped it to 20% for TriDot Nation. So once again,that's ucan.co, promo codeTRIDOT.

Atthe time we are recording this podcast episode, and the time that it is beingpublished, it is late spring/early summer in North America. The temperaturesare heating up. I'm sure we have listeners elsewhere in the world for whom it'swinter time, but sorry guys, I'm in Texas. It's getting hot, and I wanted totalk about training in the heat. So I brought two of our coaches on to diveinto this, and we're going to start right in our biology. I want to hear this –when we are not properly prepared for a hot race, when we don't know all thethings we're about to learn, and we haven't spent time acclimating to the heatproperly before a race, what actually happens to us on race day? What happensin our bodies, and how can we expect to be impacted by the hotter temperaturesof the day? Coach Kurt Madden?

Kurt:I think all of us can respect the heats. I know that from my experience andbackground in education, especially in Exercise Physiology, that when you'renot prepared, it can be dangerous, and it can actually be fatal. The firstphase you’re going to go into – think of a car that has a dashboard, and youstart to see these yellow lights start to flash. Really, that's your bodysaying, “I think you're going into heat exhaustion.” What that really means isyou're losing a lot of fluid. When you lose a lot of fluid, losing the water,you're actually losing those electrolytes through excessive sweating, becauseyour body's trying to get cooled down. The other thing that you want toremember is that athletes who are older are going to struggle a little bit morewith the heat, and some athletes that maybe have high blood pressure are goingto struggle too. Some people can adapt, or some people are just naturally bornthat can handle that. But as you're going into that “yellow light” syndrome ofheat exhaustion you'll know, “Wait a minute, my skin is kind of cold. It'spale, it's clammy. I'm starting to get muscle cramps. I'm getting dizzy. I'mgetting a headache.” What's really happening is the body just cannot coolitself down. And the muscles are going to start to cramp up, because when youreally look at the fine details of the muscle contraction, there's so manymoving parts. You need the electrolytes – the calcium, sodium, potassium, andmagnesium – that really help as they go across that cell membrane. The otherthing is the blood, as it starts to really cool the body down, the viscosity isgoing to get a lot thicker. The plasma, the clear liquid in your blood, isgoing to be impacted. That has water, protein, electrolytes, and those wasteproducts.  So if you have less of thatclear stuff in your blood, your heart rate is going to go up. Then once youleave that yellow phase, where those yellow lights are flashing where it's heatexhaustion, now you can actually go into heat stroke, which really becomes fatal.I think all of us have seen that before, it just does not look good. The personreally can just not focus, they’re very confused. They've got a really badheadache, there's nauseousness, there's dizziness. The pulse is very, verystrong, and chances are they might faint. When that happens, it's going to befatal, it’s going to be terminal, so you've got to get medical help right away.Then there’s the hypothalamus in the brain, which is the mothership that'scontrolling all this, that really helps control the body temperature, andthat’s really key. Years ago when I was in graduate school, our professor toldthe story about back in the day when these cross-country kids in Texas would goout and run all summer long. This one high-school runner, in fact it was hisson, he ran for so long without water that he actually damaged hishypothalamus, and for the rest of his entire life he never had that repaired.So we really want to be on the front end of getting prepared for hot races.

Andrew:As you're sharing all that, Kurt, I think back to IRONMAN Coeur D’Alene severalyears ago. I was on site cheering on TriDot athletes. You were there racing. Itwas a hot one, and TriDot Ambassador Jonathan Brooks – who I know decently welland I'm fairly confident he wouldn't mind me sharing this story – but JonathanBrooks actually DNFed that day. He was one of many who DNFed that day becauseof the heat. And when we caught up to him later and were talking to him, hesaid that he noticed, while he was running, that his body had stopped producingsweat entirely. Now Jonathan Brooks is a medical doctor by trade, so herecognized immediately, “This is not okay,” pulled himself out of the race, gotthe attention that he needed. He became an IRONMAN several months later atIRONMAN Florida, so his story has a happy ending. But yeah, his body changed,based on the way he was hot, the way he was sweating. Now Caleb, this is yourfirst time on the podcast, and I'm going to throw you a curveball straight outof the gate. . This is not a question on our script. You also live in Texas, sofor you personally, have you had a race that you went into maybe not quite asprepared for the heat as you thought? If so, how did that affect the way yourbody felt during that race?

Caleb:Oh, for sure. I do a race every year in Central Texas, it's called TriWaco andit's in July. They moved it to June this year, but yes that is a very hot raceevery year. Two years ago it was about 90° during the run in the morning, and Iwas just seeing stars, stopping at every aid station. That was a much hotterrace than expected. The year before it had rained, so we had just gotten suckedin the year before with cool weather, so I definitely was under-prepared forthat race.

Andrew:Yeah. So you started feeling it on the run, your vision wasn't normal. Andthat’s obviously a sprint or Olympic so you're pushing really hard until youget to the finish line. Now I'm sure you guys have seen like I have on socialmedia, several of the pros – especially the ones who qualify for Kona beforethey go to Kona – and several of our age-group friends who sign up for a hotrace, you'll see them start posting on Facebook and Instagram pictures ofthemselves training in a bathroom with a heater, or going for a long run in themiddle of the day when the sun is highest and as hot as it can be. And you'llsee them talking about, “Oh I'm heat training for such-and-such.” So I'm justcurious, when an athlete says “I'm heat training,” when we say we're trying tobuild our bodies’ tolerance to the heat, what is actually happening in our bodythat improves our ability to handle a hot race? Caleb?

Caleb:When the body hits about 101.3°, we started to produce that more plasma thatKurt was talking about. That plasma delivers oxygen via hemoglobin in the redblood cells. So when the ratio of the red blood cells to plasma gets off, thebody wants to have them in balance, so then it's going to create more red bloodcells, and that's going to increase your overall blood volume. That extra bloodvolume helps increase your oxygen capacity as well as your cooling capacity.Some people may call it water weight, but you're just increasing your body'soverall capacity and efficiency to cool itself in hot temperatures.

Andrew:Yeah, totally makes sense, and definitely goes hand-in-hand with what Kurt wassaying right at the start of the main set. And basically what we're here tolearn today is how to do this. What are the protocols, how do we do thissafely? Obviously, we have to expose ourselves to some hot temperatures. KurtI'm sure, with your history in this sport, you've probably raced more hot racesthan Caleb and I combined, times two to the fourth power. That's some crudeback-of-the-napkin math, but the point is you have some serious racing timespent when it comes to hot days, between you and the athletes you coach. SoKurt, what should a heat-training protocol look like to make thosephysiological adaptations Caleb's talking about?

Kurt:Yeah, this is another question that so many people can get on social media.What I’ve found with heat training is that some people get a little bit moreassertive or aggressive, they don't take those gradual baby steps. That is thefirst thing to do, is definitely use common sense. I think where peoplestruggle with heat training is they go to an extreme. For example, maybethey're doing an indoor training session and the air temperature might be 75°.They shut the fan off and crank it up to maybe 100° or 105°. It's not going tobe a good experience for them, it's going to be miserable, and kind ofcounterproductive. What I would suggest is definitely to start gradually. Whenyou think of our workout, especially in TriDot, if you're just doing a recoveryride for an hour or hour and a half, that might be a good session to start withsome heat training. In other words, put on an extra shirt, cut the fan off, andget used to that. The worst thing you can do is say, “I'm totally in. My nextFTP, I'll turn the heat up to 95°, I will have no fan on, and I'm going to wearthree shirts.” Now that would be fatal. Just increase the intensity slowly. Thenext thing is that, knowing that you're going to do a heat training session,it's paramount to think about what's happening during the session. You'rereally trying to sweat a lot more, so think about your hydration andelectrolytes going into that session. Think about what you're doing during thatsession, and then think about after the session. I did a 90-minute hot yogayesterday getting ready for IRONMAN Texas. It was 113°. There were 25 people inthat room. I had to really plan on the front end, I barely made it to thefinish, and the rest of the day it was wiped out. So you want to be mindful ofthat.

Thenext element is actually using your emotional intelligence as an athlete, yourself-control and self-awareness. During an actual event, you're coachingyourself. Your coach can be in your head, but they're not running alongsideyou. You've got to be aware of what's going on, like Andrew told the storywhere the person knew something was right. So many people get caught up in therace, and they're not checking themselves. You have to be very intuitive. I goback to that day in Coeur D’Alene. Andrew, I remember vividly when I was onthat second loop on the bike, my heart rate was actually going up higher thanmy power, there was an inverse relationship. I'm going, “Wait a minute, I'm notat 180 watts anymore. I'm dropping down to 120.” I felt like a newbie, I justran out of salt.  Every person I went byI'm like, “Excuse me, do you have any extra salt?” So I want to suggest topeople to use your emotional intelligence.

Thinkabout your consistency. It's not like a weekend warrior where “I'm just goingto do this one crazy training session for six hours and I'm going to crush it.”It's better actually to stretch that out over a period of, say, three to fourweeks, and maybe start with two or three times a week. The other thing is tomake sure you cool down gradually. That is really going to be key, as you'refinishing that, to let your body cool down. That's going to make a bigdifference. I also want to reinforce that you should do your best to runmidday. It's not glamorous, it's not fun, it's not enjoyable, but you're goingto pay your tuition that way if you can do those off-the-bike runs in theafternoon. That's going to be key. The other thing too – one benefit of theTriDot community is that there's so many resources out there – there's actuallysauna studios now called HOTWORX. It’s like a franchise, where you can rent itout for like an hour and just have a sufferfest. So what we did back in the daycompared to now, it makes it a little bit easier. But the more prep you can doon the front end, I would say ideally in the range of three to five weeks, it'sgoing to make a world of difference.

Andrew:Now Kurt, in that wonderful explanation you mentioned a lot of good stuff forathletes to learn from. But you mentioned hot yoga, and I’ve got to point thatout. You were on a TriDot podcast episode where we talked about yoga for thefull hour. I'm curious, Kurt, for our triathletes listening – when we talkabout doing a heat-training session, going out of our way to do a run in theheat of the day like you said. Does things like hot yoga, or mowing your lawnfor an hour on a hot Saturday, does that all help? Or does it need to be in anactual fitness session to help our bodies produce more plasma, etcetera?

Kurt:Yeah, I think if you separate the specificity and just look at what's going onwhen your body is in that heat situation, it's going to be the same response.For me, when I did that yoga session yesterday, I’d actually done about an hourand ten-minute run right before, then I went right into the hot yoga. So if Iadd an hour and a half to an hour and ten, I really stretched out at thatduration. Now it did take me almost the rest of the day. I was tempted to geton a bike for a recovery ride for about an hour but I'm like, “Wait a minute,I've got to get hydrated up.” So to answer the question for our listeners, ifyou can be specific that's really good, but I go back to the intensity and theduration. Most people cannot do a heat training session for three to fourhours, that's a little bit too demanding. But if you can slice it up to be 15minutes, then 30, then 45, then let's go to an hour. I think after two to threehours, you’re going to get into that danger zone.

Andrew:Now Caleb for you, I know you personally, as well as the athletes you coach,are using some fairly newish tech. It's not brand new, it's been out for alittle bit, but you are using the CORE body temperature sensor. I have had thepleasure to chat with the team from CORE, they're really great guys and havesome really interesting technology for sure. How are you using this to helpyour athletes adapt to certain temperatures in their training?

Caleb:Yeah, I provide all of my premium athletes the CORE body temp sensor, because Ibelieve in it so strongly. It pairs with your watch and your bike computer toshow you the real-time accurate reading of your core body temperature, as wellas the skin temperature. The CORE assigns five zones – hypothermia, normal,performance, power decline, and heat stress. The actual sweet spot for heattraining is your core threshold, which is high Zone 3 or low Zone 4. For mostpeople that's about 100.9° to 101.7° Fahrenheit or freedom units. When heattraining, like Kurt said, it isn't always better to go into Zone 4, like moreis not better. We want to stay in that heat zone. So knowing where you're at inthat core threshold zone is almost impossible without something telling youwhat your actual core temperature is. So the more you know, the more specificyou can be about intentional training.

Andrew:So you put that on while you're doing the training session. Is it all trainingsessions, or heat training sessions specifically?

Caleb:You can use it for all training sessions. It goes on your heart rate monitor,or you can put it on a sticky that you can actually leave the adhesive on yourchest somewhere for multiple days at a time. The battery can last over a week Ibelieve, at full-time continuous monitoring.

Andrew:Very cool. So for you and your athletes, you're actually taking a measurementof what your body temperature is doing during a session. How are you using thatto judge where you are in terms of being ready for a hotter event?

Caleb:Everybody's different. You need to see what your body reaction is to thespecific core temperature. Someone that thrives in the heat may be able to getup to 102.5° Fahrenheit and still be able to push harder. Whereas me, I fallmore in the typical range to where after 101.5° I want to get off the courseand go get in an ice bath. So it's incredibly important to know how your bodyreacts to the temperatures outside. The CORE also has a heat strain index,which takes into consideration your skin temperature, as well as your coretemperature and heart rate, to give you basically the perceived heat exertion.Your body will be able to easily wick away heat if it's 70° outside. Even ifyou have a high core temperature, it's not perceived to be a high heat strain.Whereas if it's 100° outside, and your skin temperature is 98°, then your bodyis going to have a much harder time to wick away that heat and cool itself off.

Andrew:Definitely cool, and definitely something I wanted to hear about, because it issomething that our athletes one-on-one can buy, and play with and monitor forthemselves, and do some individual learnings in the meantime. And maybe one daywe'll see it fully integrated with TriDot, we'll see. But I'm curious aboutthis one, guys – Kurt, we'll go to you here – how long does it take for ourbody to adjust to a hotter climate? You mentioned doing a certain duration,building up to where you're able to handle doing it longer and longer, gettingin the heat a couple times per week. Is this something that we need to do fromthe day we sign up for our IRONMAN, or our sprint or Olympic or whatever it is?Or is this something that we really need to do for a couple day, couple weekconcentrated period? How long does it take for our body to actually become heatadapted?

Kurt:You know, Andrew, it's that safe response that it really kind of depends, butI'll give you various examples. I think the important thing for our listenersto do is to take stock. No self can be very objective, so if you're not sure,ask some of the people you train with. Ask your significant other, they willtell you right away. So let's say for example – Andrew, can I use you?

Andrew:Yeah, please do. Go for it.

Kurt:Okay, you are in Texas. Chances are you're much more acclimated because of yourday-to-day activities including swimming, biking, and running, taking care ofthe family. You're going to be at a much better advantage compared to someonethat's up in the Pacific Northwest or up in Canada, where the weather is much,much cooler. Some people thrive in the heat. Other people, I know them as acoach and it's like, “No, that's not going to be your race.” I just had someonedo Boston. It got up to about 73°, and for that athlete, the last six mileswere very difficult because that temperature rise was really tough on them. ButI think generally speaking, to play it safe, if a person is doing a 70.3, Iwould go with about a three- to five-week protocol. I think that's really safe.If it's your A race and you're going to go big, Kona is probably the bestexample, I'd probably push that out to about eight weeks. The other thing thatthe athlete wants to ask, if they sign up for a race and they anticipate heat,is if it is just a dry heat, for example Arizona? Or is it going to be hot andhumid like Texas? That's what they need to know. Is it going to be hot and athigh elevation? Andrew, I don't think you were at this race – it was Boulder, Ithink in 2018. When I got off the bike, it was actually 102°, and it was at5,000 feet in elevation. I was fortunate that I was able to train in a skiresort in Southern California to simulate, because that radiant sun is justincredibly hot.

Andrew:It's different. Yeah, it's different.

Kurt:It's much different. Then if you shift over to the Big Island, as you knowAndrew, you've got multiple factors. You've got heat, you've got wind, you havehumidity, and you have something called black lava. You can't simulate thatunless you're actually there. It has to be very specific heat training for theevent you're going to do. If I do the backward mapping from October, I willramp things up to August, September. Those are two months where I'm doing a lotof stuff in the afternoon, outside, to try to assimilate that heat of Kona. SoI'm really giving myself more room. If you do it any shorter – I feel bad forsome people. They're busy, they're working, they fly in on Tuesday or Wednesday– Andrew, you've seen this in Kona. You don't want to say it, but you want tosay it, “You are going to have a really tough time on Saturday, because yourbody is just going, ‘Oh my goodness, what have you done to me?’”

Andrew:Great stuff there, Kurt, just to think through what race you are doing, whattype of heat you are entering into, what the elevation is, and definitelymaking sure you're taking the time to get prepared. Now there are some ways,and some things that you can do to prepare for a hot race, that don't haveanything to do with the training itself. There's things like figuring out yourhydration strategy, figuring out your cooling protocols. Getting ready for myfirst IRONMAN, I was doing all sorts of things on my long runs – trying to seeif a wet bandana here, or a wet T-shirt there, or a towel in my hat there –what's going to make me feel the coolest? I was playing with the coolingprotocols. Then there's skin protection, there's whether or not you're usingsunscreen, whether you're using any sort of sleeves, or bucket hats orwhatever. All those things can be really helpful to figure out in your trainingbefore you get into a scorcher of a race. So Caleb, when you're talking yourathletes through going into a hot event, how much are you talking about thesetypes of things?

Caleb:I would say this is a cornerstone of heat training, especially knowing yoursweat rate. And not just knowing it for one temperature, you need to know itfor a variety of temperatures and different levels of humidity. Say if you goto Kona, that's going to be completely different than St. George which has nohumidity. Sweat just wicks right off of you, it was amazing when we did theAmbassador Camp there. But you need to know what those rates are so you canadequately plan your hydration. You need to know your sodium loss rate perliter so that you can replenish that accurately. As far as cooling strategies,a lot of those are very personally dependent. Some people love a good sunguard, but for other people it will just trap in heat. Same goes for a cap versusa visor. Most people have probably seen the pros racing in Singapore in theT100 series have those weird Omius headbands. It’s a headband that has theselittle heat sinks in it, and it cools whenever you pour water on it or justwith air passing over it. It's really cool, but you’ve got to know if that'sgoing to work for you or not. Some people would still prefer to have the hatthat you can put ice in. It also depends on whether you like ice in your hands,in your kit, where in your kit, do put it in your mouth –

Andrew:Anywhere, Caleb. I'll put it anywhere.

Caleb:  I agree with you, but I suggest that somepeople put it down the front of their kit, and they had quite the reaction ofdisapproval. This is definitely one of those things you want to practice beforerace day, just like anything else. But the one thing that everyone should do issunscreen, because skin cancer is no joke.

Andrew:Yeah, and actually it's on my short list of things to do a full-length episodeabout, is skin care for triathletes. Definitely some things to consider there.Kurt Madden, you've done Ultraman in Hawaii, which is a step longer thanIRONMAN. You're no stranger to figuring out your own heat protocols andhydration strategies. What do you tell your athletes here on ways to get readyfor the heat that don't necessarily have to do with training in the heat?

Kurt:Yeah. Some people don't think about it, but actually when we're in the water,depending on the water temperature, you can actually overheat. It's funny whenyou talk to people, it might be 74° and they're going, “Oh my goodness, I'vegot to actually stop and unzip my wetsuit.” Other people are cold at 74°.“Throw another wetsuit on me. Can I wear booties?” It really varies from personto person. But let's hold on to that thought for a second, because dependingupon where you live – I'm fortunate that I can get into a pool at the YMCAwhere the lap pool is maybe 78°. However, for some older people that doexercises, I go in that warm pool and I think the water in there is like 88°.And if I want a wake-up call and get humbled – like in my 100 repeats in a lappool and I’m in Zone 2, I'm going like 1:30, 1:30, 1:30 – I go in the warmpool, do about four or five, and I'm hitting like 1:38 and it's only been 15minutes. I can just feel my heart rate going up, and I'm not hitting Zone 2anymore, I'm in Zone 1. But that idea right there like, “Maybe I should swimwhere the older folks swim.” No hit on old people, but I think you've got tothink about that in the swim. Because as you're swimming, you're losing water.Every time you exhale you're losing water, you’re getting more dehydrated.

Andrew:And you’ve got that sun beating down on your back, yeah.

Kurt:And say you’re in a full IRONMAN and you get out in 1:20, versus someone elsewho’s in the water for like 1:45 or 1:50. That's another thirty minutes rightthere, so that's something. If you looked at two different people, the one thatcame out in 1:50 definitely has lost a lot more water because they’rebreathing. That's something that we've got to think about. The first thing thatpeople can do is just go ahead and try to get a warmer pool, or depending uponwhere they're set up, some people could actually swim with the wetsuit to be alittle bit warmer in the water. Then as Caleb has touched on, the athlete needsto think about the nutritional plan and the electrolyte plan. For example ifyou're going into a very hot race like Texas, your focus should probably bemore dialed in on the electrolytes. That's going to be the most important thingand limiting factor, as compared to training your gut to get in 300 to 400calories per hour. Because when your body gets hot like that, your body isgoing to start to shut down a little bit. So focus on looking at yournutritional plan, your electrolyte plan, make sure you are good to go as you'regetting ready for that. Going back to the Ultraman, day one is a 6.2-mile swimand 90-mile bike ride, 6,000 vertical feet or whatever. Day two is a 175-milebike ride. But on day three, as we got prepared for the last time I did it in2019, it's that double marathon from Hawi back to Kona. You've been out thereon that highway, Andrew, it takes no prisoners at all. When we prepared forthat event, my crew – my son, Andé Wegner, and Rick, her boyfriend – theyactually got 50 pounds of ice. Now we weren’t having a party. About every tenminutes they were jumping out of that van, they would give me a handful of icein a baggie in this hand, one in the other, one down my shorts, and ten minuteslater they'd be right back out with another one, just to keep my temperaturecool, sucking on ice. So you can never over prepare when you're looking atprotocols to make sure that your body is going to be cool.

Andrew:Now, depending on the time and location of your race, it might not be possiblefor you physically to get outside and have it be hot before race day. Or maybeit might be hot where you are, but it's not the Kona heat, or the type of heatyou are going to encounter on your race day. You guys have touched a little biton wearing some layers, doing some training inside, doing some training whereit's hot and then doing hot yoga afterwards. Is there anything else you guyshave to say when it comes to an athlete out there who knows, “I've got a bigrace coming up, it's going to be hot. It's not hot where I live. How do I getready for this?” Coach Kurt, what would you say?

Kurt:I would say the athlete, no matter where they are in the spectrum of newbie, tomid-Packer, or at the upper end, they really need to mark specificheat-training workouts as they build up to that. It's kind of common sense, butwe can forget because we're so busy doing other things. That is something thatpeople really, really need to be aware of, is just pinpointing those. And likeI've touched on earlier, you want to be very gradual in doing this. I wouldstart with some recovery sessions to make it easy, and then continue to rampthose things up.

Andrew:Great word there, Kurt. Now Caleb, I’m curious to hear this from you. We allobviously want to see progress from the hard work that we're putting in. Wewant to see that as we're getting in the heat from week to week to week, thatwe're improving our tolerance for the heat from week to week to week. Is thereany way to measure that improvement or to see signs that we're improving ourtolerance for the heat?

Caleb:Yeah, perceived effort is a pretty big indicator in itself. If you go out insimilar conditions at the start of your heat-training versus during or at theend of your heat training, it should feel noticeably easier for the same pace.However, you can also quantitatively do a test. Indoors is the easiest way tocontrol it. Set it at a temperature inside and do a specific workout. Compareyour data from today's workout versus the one you did at the start of the heattraining. You should be able to either hold a higher power, or be able tocontrol the heart rate drift later on in the workout. The heart rate drift isbeing able to have your power and heart rate at the same level.

Kurt:I think again, when we're trying to look at your hard work and everythingyou're putting in, what are some of those responses? To piggyback off of Caleb,the athlete needs to be a little bit more mindful when they go into thesesessions. In other words, they need to have some metrics they're looking at preand post. And if they did it over, say, a two- to three-month period, thatwould be great. And you want to be real consistent.  Let's say for example you're inside on atreadmill for an hour and a half run, everyone can relate with that. What youwant to do is notice over time, if you're doing that same session with the samemain set that is similar, take a look at your heart rate during that sessionand see if you're going to have less of that increase. If you're not havingthat increase in heart rate, you know your body has started to adapt to youknow that session, you are getting heat adapted. I think that's important. Andjust looking at your sweat, looking at your cooling of the skin, that's anotherkey indicator. You can do that by weighing in before and after to see how muchyou're actually sweating. The other thing too, like Caleb said, a lot of thisis mental. But if your rate of perceived effort feels a lot easier. “I’mgetting used to this.” Your body is adapting. I think that mental aspect isreally key. The other thing too, I notice if I try to swim later in the dayafter a long run, you're having less cramping and symptoms of heat exhaustion.You don't feel dizzy, you don't feel like you have a headache, you can actuallyhold a decent conversation. Those are multiple measures that all of ourlisteners should really focus on. It’s very serious, you have to be verydiligent about your notes, and make sure you're tracking that, and it’s notvery random. When things are random like this, the end product is not going tobe very good.

Andrew:Earlier on in the episode, we talked about how this can be a dangerous thing.It can be a dangerous thing to take on a hot event and not be ready for it. Itcan be a dangerous thing to put yourself out there in the heat, and overheat,and not be prepared for that in a training session. So when we're out there,what are some signs that our body is starting to get dangerously hot? So we canall have our head on a swivel, be on the lookout, and be taking self-inventoryduring these workouts like, “Hey, am I still okay, or am I getting a little outof control and need to shut this work out down?” Caleb, what would you say toour athletes today on this? What are some signs that maybe we need to call itquits a little early or back the intensity down a little bit?

Caleb:Actually the easy answer is just to look down at your CORE. If you do have oneof the CORE sensors, just pay attention to it. It's a great lesson that took methree marathons to learn, that when it's hot outside, don't just run off offeeling. Look and see what your CORE is doing. Because if you're running at apace that you should be able to do, but you planned on doing it in 60° weatherand it's 80°, your CORE is not going to be the same temperature. TriDot has theenvironment normalizing ability, and we need to pay attention to it. But signsand symptoms we went over earlier in the episode, but if you're starting tofeel faint or getting dizzy, if anything is starting to tingle, especially inthe extremities, if it goes numb, then definitely stop and get medicalattention. These can be very serious problems, and they can turn from bad toworse very quickly.

Andrew:Yeah, we're here about 40 minutes or so into a conversation about the heat, andCaleb is, just now dropping TriDot’s EnviroNorm technology into theconversation. I knew it would come up eventually, I knew it would come upsomewhere, and I was going to make sure it came up if it didn't. So hats off toCaleb for bringing up ENorm. ENorm doesn't heat-adapt us, what ENorm does ismake sure whatever session you're doing, whatever temperature you're doing thatsession in, your pace is adjusted for the temperature. So if I'm going to do asession on the track at 6:00 AM when it's nice and a great temperature outside,my run paces might be a little more aggressive. But if I can't get out thereand I tell TriDot “Hey, I'm going to do this session later this afternoon whenit's hotter,” it's going to back my run places down accordingly to make sureI'm working as hard as I'm supposed to be working in the session. That's alwayssuper-nice to know, and I’ve found it to be a wonderful tool, especially herein Texas, to know that I'm doing the session at the right intensity. Thenobviously the wisdom from our coaches today is the extra know-how in terms ofgetting yourself ready to be in the heat for a race itself. Coach Kurt, whatwould you like to add?

Kurt:Yes, you opened up the door, Andrew. So I'm going to come back.

Andrew:Come on in!

Kurt:Yeah, I think ENorm, in addition to your Normalized Training Stress, that'sreally the hallmark of TriDot, we know that. But really, the athlete shouldspend some time on RaceX, and have a really objective view with someone else –not what you want, but your reality of where you are right now. That can bevery humbling. And they want to look at the course. For example, if we look ata multi-loop course like Texas, where you're going to do three loops, and youknow that if you're near the front that first loop, it's not going to be toocrowded. But you get into that second and third loop, then all of a suddenyou've got 3,000-plus racers out there. And that run-walk protocol that we'vetalked about is a game changer, because what's going to happen when you startto walk, you’ve got that ice, you're getting your core temperature down, you'regoing to be okay. Then you start to shuffle, then you start to run, and you runand walk. That is so, so much better for the athlete to do in their trainingthat’s going to carry over to the race, versus, “I am bound and determined torun every single step 26.2 miles.” That might not be the most efficient way. Asan athlete and even as a coach, I’m always thinking if I can get my heart ratedown three to four beats more, that's big, big money, if I can stay in Zone 2.I go back to Kona – I always tell people, if you really want an insane workout,go to Ali’i Drive in October and do MAV shuttles for an hour on Ali’i Drive.

Andrew:No, thank you. Thanks.

Kurt:Yes. Now you know your heart rate, you won't even be in Zone 2. You're going tostart in Zone 3, because it's just that heat, and there's no air, and it's justso humid. But that's really important, they've really got to be aware. AndCaleb touched on it, if they've got a headache, they're confused, they'redizzy, they’re not right – and actually, the volunteers out there with themedical staff are there to help you, they don't want to pull you from the race– but if you can't say your name or what state you're in or what time of day itis, you're not in a good place, and it's better to say “I need some help.”

Andrew:Well, let’s not end the episode talking about potentially DNFing or withdrawingbecause you're getting overheated. Pay attention to that, we want you to besafe out there on course. But let's end the episode today with some goodstories. You guys both coach a lot of athletes. To wrap up our main set today,I want to hear one story from each of you, of an athlete you worked with, wherea part of the conversation was specifically about their heat-training protocolfor the race they had coming up. Walk us through what the target race was, whatyou did working with that athlete in their training to make sure they're readyfor their race day, and then how that hot race day went. We'll start withCaleb, then go to Kurt. Caleb, take it away.

Caleb:Actually one of my athletes did TriWaco with me last year. It's that race inCentral Texas during July where –

Andrew:It is hot.

Caleb:It’s hot. The water temperature is mid- to high-80s, so at that temperature youcan't even hardly wear a swim skin, and wetsuits are completely illegal.

Andrew:Yeah. Out of the question.

Caleb:Swim skins are even not recommended, your body just can't cool down from thestart. So we practiced finding an outdoor pool as hot as we could find, andswam in that at least once a week. Bikes were done indoors with the fans off,and runs were done in the heat of the day. And we had both done this race twoyears in a row, so he was able to go 30 seconds per mile faster than the yearbefore, with implementing these heat protocols in training. And he was muchhappier with his result at the end of the race too.

Andrew:The good thing, Caleb, on getting faster in the heat is you get off the coursea little bit sooner. You get out of the heat a little bit sooner. You get tothose chocolate milks and water bottles and electrolyte beverages and thecoolers a little bit sooner.

Caleb:As long as they're iced down.

Andrew:As long as they're iced down! Coach Kurt, close us down. What's a goodheat-training story from one of your athletes?

Kurt:I'm probably going to go with Chris Plant. Chris Plant is a Canadian, she's upin Ottawa. She's a good example as she doesn't live in Texas. But bless herheart, she has a full-time job, and she is dedicated to do whatever she can forheat training. She trains indoors like 90% of the time. So like Caleb said andeverything that we've talked about, she just pays her tuition and she goes tothe school of hard knocks. She'll make those adaptations internally when she'son the bike, she'll do the same thing when she's on the run. Swimming, not somuch. But Chris is very intentional. She’ll get to Kona early. She's very easyto work with, to hang out with. So we'll get out of the course every morning.We'll get out there and swim to make sure we get some nice salty water in ourmouth, and we experience all the waves down there by the pier. Then we'llactually go out on the course, and we'll go to Hawi and various sections to getthe hottest and the windiest part of the course. Then when we look at the EnergyLab – I think people actually can make or break it out there – to really getout there at two or three in the afternoon to do an hour and 20-minute run.What I've seen with Chris, a remarkable story, last year she qualified atIRONMAN Texas, then she had hip replacement surgery within three weeks. She hadone done a few years ago, then she had the other one done so that she’s good onboth sides. And she's like, “Coach, I don't think I'm going to get to Kona.”And I said, “Chris, you're a fighter. You are bound and determined, you'restubborn. You're not going to give up.” She slowly started to ramp up and rampup, and before you know it, I had a sense like, “Chris, you are going to bejust fine.” She gets to Kona three weeks early, and we do the same thing. Ithink she finished right around 13½ hours, and she's so pumped, she's soexcited that she's already talking about Kona for possibly 2026, she's alreadygot that on her radar. She is the best example. She will pay the piper and dothings that are just insane, but on race day she enjoys it and her body isadapted. So shout-out to Chris Plant.

Cool down theme: Great set everyone! Let’s cool down.

Vanessa Ronksley: It's Coach Cooldown Tip Time, and I'm Vanessa,your Average Triathlete with Elite-Level Enthusiasm! Joining me on the cooldownall the way from the UK is professional coach and manager of the Precision RaceTeam, Will Usher. Will has been coaching triathlon for over 25 years, and workswith beginners all the way to professionals, both able-bodied andpara-triathletes. He is a well-seasoned athlete himself, having raced alldistances internationally for Great Britain age group, and even hitting thepodium at World-level. Will currently lives in Godalming with his wife Raya,two young children Lucy and Thomas, their dog Poppy, and cat Amber. Welcome tothe show, Will!

Will Usher: Thanks very much! Thanks for having me, it’s a pleasure to be on.

Vanessa:Now I hear that you love to surf. What is the best wave that you have evercaught? I want all the details, like where, when, who, everything.

Will:First things first, as a caveat I'm pretty average, below average. But yeah,there’s this eight-foot wave in Cornwall at Porthmeor Beach, which is where wego on holiday quite a lot. And I dropped in late on a longboard, and I wasabsolutely convinced I was going to get dumped. But somehow I stuck it, and Iwas so far over the back of the board, trying to keep the nose up. I literallyhad no idea I was that flexible still. I suppose fear is a good motivator.Anyway the rush was awesome. I nearly fell off once I’d actually got startedwith the wave, because I was so surprised that I was still there. But yeah, itwas great.

Vanessa:Well, I think that you are not average if you can catch and stay on aneight-foot wave. Just saying.

Will:I don’t know. It was either get on or get dumped. So there’s real motivation.

Vanessa:Yes, nothing like that for motivation. I have a hard time believing that youactually fall into the average category with anything that you do. So let'shear a superstar tip that you have for our listeners today.

Will:Sure, and this is something that we see quite a lot of, and it's a super goodway of ensuring you get the most out of your training. And that's basically theuse of your metrics. Everybody knows that there's basically three principalmetrics – power, pace, and heart rate – and typically for a high-intensitysession, you can only really look at power or pace, because your heart rate hasthat lag behind it, and it will never get into place in time. Say for exampleyou had three blocks of six minutes with one minute in between, you'll be luckyif your heart rate is in the right zone by the last minute of each six, even ifit gets there on the first rep. So we use power and pace very specifically tomake sure you're hitting your intensity. And when I'm talking about the use ofmetrics here, is that we use power and pace in the high intensity. However,many of you will have noticed there's a nice Zone 2 block at the back-end ofthat session. In order to get your training score to 100, you still need to bewithin your Zone 2 range in terms of pace or power, whatever it might be, butreally pay attention to the heart rate. Because whereas at the beginning of thesession in your Zone 2 warmup you would have comfortably at the bottom of yourZone 2 heart rate most likely, and probably quite close to the top end of thepace for the Zone 2. But now it’ll be the other way around. It's going to takea little while for your heart rate to calm down, and the likelihood is you'regoing to need to reduce the pace. There's a temptation to push the pace onbecause you're enjoying running fast, and you want to get X amount ofkilometers or miles done. But really pay attention, switch that thought processto the heart rate. Because the reason we have Zone 2 and Zone 4 – Zone 4 is topush the threshold in your upper end of your capability, and Zone 2 is thecardiovascular efficiency. And if you fall into the middle trap, the Zone 3area, you're really not doing anything particularly well, and you're missingthe point of that side of the session.

Vanessa:That is excellent, and something that a lot of us need to pay attention to andto listen to. I think that a lot of us get into that definite trap of pushingtoo hard in the easy stuff, and not pushing hard enough in the hard stuff. Sowhen you are in that Zone 2 at the end of your session, you had said thatyou're not really paying attention to that pace or power. So if your heart rateis still lower, then is it okay to push a little bit faster or a little bitharder on the pace and power?

Will:  Yeah, sure. So let's say you have a range inyour pace between a 5:30-minute kilometer and a 6-minute kilometer for yourZone 2. So you've got a 30-second range that you can work in. I'm reallyhigh-beater, so I can go to 162 at the top end of my Zone 2, but I need to makesure that I'm in the around 150s area comfortably. If I'm holding and it'ssticking there nicely, then yeah I can afford to increase the pace, but theimportant thing is not to go over the top of your Zone 2 heart rate. So work towhatever pace you can within your Zone 2 pace range. You’ve got to get thattraining score. You can work harder if you want, but don't go over into theZone 3 heart rate. And it will be much harder, after you've done the intervals,to stick in that range. You're going to have to run or bike considerably slowerthan you thought you would.

Vanessa:Yeah, that's wonderful to listen to. If your heart rate is lower, do you thinkthat maybe you didn't push hard enough in those Zone 4 efforts earlier on inthe workout?

Will:I would say that probably you're just getting more efficient. And what isstaggering  – and it shouldn't be,because TriDot layers itself so beautifully – is that as you near the end ofthe cycle, just the week before you're doing your new test week or whatever,what you'll typically find is that you're able to get your heart rate downquite quickly after the threshold work, and that can run at the upper end ofyour Zone 2 band and you’re feeling really great. Then you do your test and youdrop 30 seconds off your 5K and go, “Oh, this is awesome!” Then you look at thenew speed and you’re like, “There's no way I'm going to be able to hold my paceright there!” But suddenly, magically you do, because of how beautifullylayered the training is, it allows you to do that. But it's super importantbecause ultimately that Zone 2 efficiency is what's going to carry you throughrace day, and I've seen some of my athletes improve a minute per kilometer ontheir Zone 2 pace, for 15 beats per minute lower in terms of their heart rate.Now if we scale that up and apply that across the disciplines, what we'resaying is over a marathon that's 42 minutes, which is enormous. But we've gotto look after the efficiency of the heart, and we do the relevant parts of thesession for the different reasons.

Outro:Thanks for joining us. Make sure to subscribe and share the TriDot podcast withyour triathlon crew. For more great tri content and community, connect with uson Facebook, YouTube, and Instagram. Ready to optimize your training? Head totridot.com and start your free trial today! TriDot – the obvious and automaticchoice for triathlon training.

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