TriDot Podcast .204

The Next Generation: Getting Your Kids Into Triathlon

Intro:This is the TriDot podcast. TriDot uses your training data and genetic profile,combined with predictive analytics and artificial intelligence to optimize yourtraining, giving you better results in less time with fewer injuries. Ourpodcast is here to educate, inspire, and entertain. We’ll talk all thingstriathlon with expert coaches and special guests. Join the conversation andlet’s improve together.

Andrew Harley: Hey, everybody, welcome to the show! It is a very different topictoday. We are talking about the next generation of triathletes. Triathlon is agrowing youth and junior sport, and today we will explore the world ofcoaching, racing and involving your kids in youth triathlon.  Now, I would have absolutely outright refusedto do this episode without my first guest. It is our founder and CEO, JeffBooher. Jeff is the chief architect behind TriDot’s nSight OptimizationTechnology that powers TriDot training. He's a multiple Ironman finisher whohas coached dozens of professional triathletes and national champions, as wellas hundreds of age-groupers to podiums and PR's since he began coaching in2003.  He coached the Tri4Him JuniorElite Tri Team from 2010 to 2021, producing five youth and junior nationalchampions along the way. Now Jeff, you and I actually met each other throughyouth triathlon, so I know firsthand your passion for this topic. Are you excitedto talk about it?

Jeff Booher:  Super excited.  Yep, we have many, many, many hours on decktogether.

Andrew:  Very true. Mostly me just trying to learnfrom you and admire the fast kids in the pool. They’re certainly faster than Iam.

Jeff:  Aw, hardly.

Andrew:  Also with us for this is TJ Tollakson fromDimond bikes. TJ is the owner of Dimond Bicycles and the founder and CEO ofRooster Sports. He raced in the pro field for 16 years and has two Ironmanvictories, one North America Championship title, and many more pro podiumfinishes on his résumé. He studied industrial engineering at the University ofIowa and now brings his love of triathlon and engineering prowess into creatingthe most advanced bikes on the planet. He is the head coach of the Z3 Tri Teamout of Des Moines, Iowa. Now TJ, you are normally here to talk to us aboutbicycles in some capacity.  Differenttopic for you today, huh?

TJ Tollakson:  Yeah, it's different. It's allintertwined though. We've got kids, and kids’ bikes, and kids’ triathlon. I'vegot three kids myself, so it's all related. We don't have work/life balance,we've got work/life integration, and this is all part of it.

Andrew:  Making his debut on the TriDot podcast todayto round out our trio of youth and junior coaches is TriDot Coach Ryan Knophle.Ryan ran cross country in high school and college, and he first gave triathlona try back in the late 1990’s. He served the United States Armed Forces as anArmy Ranger until 2004. He is now an infantry officer for the Army NationalGuard, where he currently is a battalion operations officer. He has beencoaching with TriDot since the beginning of 2023, and is a seasoned triathletehimself, with experience at all of the distances.  The highlight of his tri career thus far camethrough representing the All Army Triathlon Team in 2023. Now Ryan, you and Ihave chatted many times at the races, but this is your first time on themicrophone for the podcast. Thanks so much for joining this chat.

Ryan Knophle:  Yeah. Thank you. Excited to behere.

Andrew:  Well, I am Andrew the Average Triathlete,Voice of the People, and Captain of the Middle of the Pack. As always, we'llroll through our warmup question, settle in for our main set conversation, andthen wind things down with Vanessa taking over to host our cooldown. TriDotPool School is the best way for triathletes to learn proper swim form. TheTriDot coaching team spent years on the pool deck crafting functionalfreestyle, and it has already helped hundreds of triathletes improve their swimby an average of 12%. As soon as an athlete registers for TriDot Pool School,they are given access to the TriDot Academy, where a series of dry-landexercises help build crucial muscle memory long before the in-person weekend.  The weekend workshop is an engaging blend ofinstruction, demonstrations, and drills, with frequent breaks to rest andreflect. You'll be grouped with swimmers of similar ability, and taughtstep-by-step how to turn your muscle memory into full-stroke swimming that'ssmooth and fast. TriDot Pool School is for everyone. We've had entry-leveltriathletes, back-of-the-packers, mid-packers, some elite age-groupers, andeven a couple of pro triathletes attend. Ready to jump in? There are PoolSchools available all over the country and around the world. Head to tridot.com/pool-school and sign up today.

Warm up theme: Time to warm up! Let’s get moving.

Andrew:  No matter how virtuous, organized andwell-intentioned a triathlete that you are, even the best among us havemultisport-related bad habits. No one's perfect, y'all! They may be teeny tinybad habits, or they could be a real big problem of a bad habit. Regardless,they belong to us, and this is a safe space for us all to own them. So guys,for our warmup question today, what is your triathlon bad habit? And Coach Ryanit's your first time on the show, so I'm going to throw you into the fire. Kickus off here. What is your tri bad habit?

Ryan:  All right. I love food, and all food, sothat's the worst habit I have. If there's food in front of me, I'm going to eatit, so portion control.  If snacks are inthe house, I’m going to town.  So that isprobably my worst bad habit, is I love to eat.

Andrew:  Yeah, it's great that you can sum up your tribad habit in one word.  You just say it'sfood, and we understand the rest. That's it, yeah. A lot of people noddingtheir heads and relating to you there. TJ Tollakson, what is your tri bad habit?

TJ:  Yeah, so my bad habit over my career isreally open water swimming/wetsuit swimming. My one kind of regret for mycareer was I didn't spend enough time swimming in a wetsuit and swimming inopen water. You know, there's a huge percentage of races that everyone wears awetsuit, so if you're not training with a wetsuit, you're not doing yourselfjustice. And it's hard, because I came from a swimming background, and I feellike a lot of swimmers are like this. But especially in race prep, you've got to do it. So these are thingsthat I try to make amends for as a coach, and just make up for it, right? Makesure that all the kids that I coach are practicing appropriately.

Andrew:  So trying to make those amends, how often areyour kids on the tri team in their wetsuits for some open water swim practice?

TJ:  Because I just coach the little kids, theyactually don't use the wetsuits.  But weopen-water swim every practice we have. That was a big thing.  When I took over the program, swimming wasnot involved in regular practice, because the thought was, “Oh, these kids areon the swim team, and they don't need extra swimming.” The truth is, open-waterswimming is basically a different sport from pool swimming. So if you're notpracticing open-water swimming, you're not getting better. So while I don'thave my kids in wetsuits yet, they open-water swim all the time, and I thinkthat's a super-important skill for young kids to learn.

Andrew:  Already kind of dipping our toe into today'stopic there a little bit.  Jeff Booher,what is your tri bad habit?

Jeff:  I'm going to take this in a little bitdifferent direction and say my tri bad habit was just taking things for grantedtoo often, and not just being grateful for the health, the time, my wife wholet me invest the time, and the kids. All the things that it takes to be a triathlete.  That's a big commitment, so just beinggrateful to be there, and for all those that kind of allow it to happen.

Andrew:  Guys, we're going to throw this question outto you, our audience, like we always do. Make sure you're a part of the I AM TriDot Facebook group.  Every single Monday when the new episodecomes out, we pose this question to you. So let us know – this is a safe space,guys – what is your tri bad habit?

Main set theme: On to the main set. Going in 3…2…1…

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Iwas 27 years old when I raced my first local sprint triathlon, and hot dog, didI immediately fall in love with the sport and wish that I had known about itwhen I was younger. I would wager that a good majority of our audience foundtriathlon as adults and share a similar sentiment with me. Well, thankfully,youth and junior triathlon is definitely a thing. It is definitely a growingsport, and today we're going to learn what it's like to coach and parent thenext generation of triathletes. Of the three of you on this podcast, Jeff, youcoached youth tri for many years, 21 years in fact. And TJ, you are coaching itright now with your kids.  Now did youboth start coaching when your kids got into the sport, or did your kids getinto the sport because you were coaching? This is a real “chicken or the egg”question. But Jeff for you, when did you start coaching youth tri?

Jeff:  My kids were young. My daughter was kind ofrecreational on the first year of the team. My boys started I think year one too. So they were about that age, and I was working with another coach,another TriDot coach in the area, and he had a daughter. I've seen that quite abit, a lot of coaches start off as parents, then coaches, and they start a teamjust so that their kids have people to do triathlon with.

Andrew:  Yeah, did you intend on it growing to thesize that it did and just having dozens of youth that were kind of under yourcare? Or was it just, “I want to get my kids into the sport and shepherd themthrough it”?

Jeff:  More the first.  We knew we wanted to have a team that wasn'tjust about my kids for sure. And his daughter was about to go off to college,so he had a passion for kids. He'd worked in baseball, umpire and coach, andthat part of his career was over. So we both had a passion for youth and inkids in the sport.  So we knew we wantedit to be some size, but we didn't know what we were getting into at the time.So we had a lot of learning, a big learning curve there for a few years.

Andrew:  Now TJ, you said you started your career atage 5, and you were not very competitive. You obviously got more and more competitive as you got older, enough tobecome a professional triathlete. At what point did you transition to coachingyouth tri? Was it when your kiddos came along and got interested?

TJ:  No, I first got involved when Jenny Weber andCraig Hanken started the Z3 Triathlon program 15 years ago in Des Moines, and Iwas a pro at that time. So I knew Jenny and Craig really well, so I starteddoing camps and clinics with those kids at that time. I've always had someinvolvement with Z3 throughout my entire career. It's been pretty limited. Andthen once my own kids became aged to become triathletes, race age 6, that'swhen I started coaching. That's when I took the program over. And yeah, there'sno looking back now.

Andrew:  Yeah, that’s really cool. And Ryan, yourinvolvement with youth tri is a little bit different. You are a TriDot coach,you coach adult triathletes, and you're a very successful age-group triathleteyourself.  You're certainly qualified tocoach youth triathlon if you really wanted to, but you have chosen to be just ayouth tri parent, leaving the coaching of your daughter to someone else. Why isthat the path that you've taken with your daughter's tri journey?

Ryan:  Yeah, that's a great question. I think it'sunique to everybody, and with Emily wanting to train and her competitivenessand whatnot, it was kind of a challenge to coach her myself.  We started doing some run stuff alone, butyou know, “Dad doesn't know what he's talking about. You're not an expert atthis.” So we started looking elsewhere, and talked to friends that were in thesport, and eventually found some local coaches from Orlando. The area here isfilled with some great coaches, and we got hooked up with a great team.  And probably the best choice we made isgetting her associated with them.  Andwhen she goes to practice she's with other kids, which makes it fun. Practicewith Daddy is just practice, and it's not as fun.  And at the end of the day with the kids, wewant to make it fun for them. If they're not having fun, they're not going tostick with the sport, and they're going to choose something else that theythink is fun. So being fun, being with other kids, like-minded children aswell, that's where it was.  That's whatmakes it for her. And yeah, she's flourished with it.  It's pretty impressive watching her now.

Andrew:  Yeah, my first awareness of her ability, Iwas in Daytona for Challenge Daytona – now it's CLASH Daytona – and that's whenI first met you for the first time through some mutual friends. You did quitewell in the middle distance yourself, but your daughter now, she won CLASHDaytona, the sprint triathlon, against all the adults. She won the race.  And I'm curious, hearing you talk about how“Dad doesn't know what he's talking about,” TJ do you find with your kids, dothey ever not want to listen to Dad, or are they young enough to buy into whatyou have to say?

TJ:  No, all the time it's, “Dad doesn't know whathe's talking about.” The thing that helps them is I'm surrounded by all thesepeople that are reminding them, “No, if anybody knows, your dad knows.” So thenthey're kind of like, “Well, yeah, maybe, but at home he doesn't knowanything.” So while I coach, there's enough people around that convince themthat I know what I'm talking about. But yeah, it's a battle. I think that's ahard part. Every parent who's coached their own child knows what that's like, andit stems from the fact that when it's your child, they know that youunconditionally love them, and so they can get away with things these otherkids can't. So that's always a challenge. But so far in triathlon practice, mykids have been pretty good.

Andrew:  Yeah, and Jeff, your sons Grant and Jake,their swim form is so polished from the years under your tutelage, that theyare our examples of proper swim form on deck at TriDot Pool School. So ifanybody attends a TriDot Pool School, 99% of the time, the athlete in the waterdemonstrating the proper drills are Grant and Jake Booher, your sons.  Did they and Courtney ever fight you at allin practice along the way, or did they just kind of always trust that you knewyou were doing?

Jeff:  For the most part they trusted, but therewere those times for sure. I had an arrangement with some of my assistantcoaches, where their kids were on the team too, so we would kind of trade, andthey would tell my kids to do things when I wasn't getting through, and I'd dothe same for their kids. So it worked out pretty well, but that's to beexpected, that's just part of growing up.

Andrew:  Now, triathlon is always triathlon.  But within our sport, there’s kind ofdifferent subcultures.  I mean, the vibeat a local sprint is very different from the vibe at a full-distance race,which is different from the vibe at Xterra, which is different from the vibe atyouth and junior events.  So talk to us,guys, about youth triathlon as a whole. What is the structure of youth racing,what are the big events that that kids are going to, what are the age-groupranges, how is that all structured around in terms of who you're racingagainst? Just talk to us about what triathlon looks like at the youth andjunior level. Jeff Booher, I'll let you launch us off on this one.

Jeff:  That's a great question. I think parents, ifthey want to kind of check out the scene, is find the nearest local, especiallydraft-legal race, and go check it out and see it. There's so much that you cansee that we could never express here. But basically, they can start age-group very young, six or seven yearsold, it depends on those local sprints. And it's very age-appropriate, very fun. When they get up to the more competitive level, starting at 13, it'scalled elite racing. It's draft-legal racing, like the Olympic-style, whereyou're drafting on the bike.  The fieldis limited to 75, they all start at the same time off a dock or a beach. Theyall jump in the water, swim, draft-legal bike, and then a run. The youth,that's 13 to 15 years old, and junior is 16 to 19.  So we'll say youth and junior. I know thoseare kind of used interchangeably in normal language, where youth is 13 to 19.  Then Youth Elite is the draft-legal, and thenJunior Elite means draft-legal racing. Then there's a lot of other races that are just non-draft, just youthraces and junior races where they have normal age-group kind of time-trialstart, one after another. On the competitive series, youth elite and juniorelite races start at 13. They have five or six qualifiers throughout the yearin different parts of the country.  Soathletes will have to sign up – again, that’s 75 youth girls, 75 youth boys, 75junior girls and 75 junior boys – 300 athletes for the weekend, all differentraces.  They compete in four or five ofthose, they take the top 12, 15, 20 – it depends on where it rolls down fromeach of those races – to make up the National field. So at Nationals everyyear, the first weekend in August typically, all of those kids from around thecountry, whoever qualified, goes and competes head-to-head. That's kind of thelay of the land.

Andrew:  Now Ryan, your daughter, at age 16, at thetime we're recording this podcast is neck-deep in the Junior Elite division ofwhat Jeff just broke down. What does her race schedule look like currently inthis year, 2023?

Ryan:  Yeah, so she just wrapped up her seasonnationals a week and a half ago. First year at the Junior level, she aged up,so a bit humbling for her early on, but she actually had a great season,actually pulled out a win in Pittsburgh for one of the races, so that waspretty exciting. But it starts in the March time frame, Claremont has adraft-legal festival, occasionally they have some pros to come in and race aswell, but this year they didn't have a pro race.  Racing Claremont, then the following weekendis in Sarasota for an America's Cup, which is an international-type event withmainly North America and South America countries representing there.  Then from there, the next race was at the endof April or beginning of May in Richmond. Then it goes to Wisconsin,Pittsburgh, West Des Moines, and then nationals was in Milwaukee. So it's abusy summer traveling around.

Andrew:  So TJ, coaching the younger kids, which iswhere your kiddos are at the moment, you’re less neck deep in the competitivetravel schedule.  What does the racinglook like in that more “let's go have fun with triathlon” age group? Is it asmuch travel, or is it more close to home? What's the vibe at the races for theyounger kids?

TJ:  We're fortunate to have this series, andthere's usually four or five of these RipRoar races, and then we have a couplenon-RipRoar series races in the area too, communities that put on kids'triathlons. One of them has a pool swim, one of them is at a lake.  So there's almost a race every weekend, allsummer. Again, these are kids from 6 all the way to 15 years of age. Some ofthese kids are racing two races in a weekend. So in West Des Moines, a bunch ofthese kids will do both races, and then some of the kids, because they're notas strong swimmers, don't do well in draft-legal events will only raceage-group. Then of course, some of the best elite athletes will just do thedraft-legal racing, they don't want to mess around with the non-draft racing. That'swhat the series looks like for us.  Ofcourse the USAT Nationals is a big part of it, that starts at race age 7, andso as soon as you’re race age 7, there's a 7-10 category, and then there's an11-13 category.  Maybe just 11-12,because then it's draft-legal, right? So that's most of the kids that we havethat are doing the race series.

Andrew:  TJ I'm curious, when you're coaching kids atthat age – and Jeff mentioned a little earlier, for the Tri4Him junior team,the emphasis at that age is enjoying the sport, having some fun with the sport– what does practice look like at that age, TJ? What are the kinds of thingsyou're doing when your kids get together?

TJ:  Yeah, so for the youngest kids, it's prettymuch the same thing. We work a lot on skills, so the total volume of trainingis small. So my youngest kids, my 6- and 7-year-olds, they are limited to onepractice a week. We meet on Monday nights, we do a swim, and we typically do amulti-loop swim. So we do beach entries, beach exits, and a little bit ofswimming right. We work on dolphin diving, running into the water, running outof the water. So my littlest kids will do two laps of a little rectangle inopen water.  I never put those kids inwater where they can't touch, so they feel comfortable. But again, it's notfocused on swimming a huge amount of distance, it's working on the skills fortriathlon.  Then we'll transition, hop onthe bike, we usually do about a four-mile bike, even though those youngest kidsare really only going to race like two miles on the bike in their race.  It's amazing what bike training does forthese young kids, so going on these four-mile bike rides really helps themprogress through that. But it's not just biking, in that four miles, we'redoing four mounts and dismounts. So they're riding a mile, and then they'redismounting their bike, and then they're mounting their bike again. It's reallycool, because you'll watch some pro triathletes that will just absolutely haveno idea what they're doing on a flying mount, and I could show you a six-year-old kid who could teach them how to doit. It just comes down to practice. So they're biking four miles, but againit's one mile, a mount, and a dismount. Then we'll transition one last time for a run, and we almost always,with those kids, we do a half-mile run, and I start the youngest kids first,and then the older kids chase them.  Ifound out no matter what you do with these young kids on the run, they alwaysend up racing on the run, and for a half mile, I don't really care.  So that's practice, that's what we do.  And then we always end practice, in Z3 wehave seven pillars of character that define the club and athletes, so we alwaystalk about the seven pillars, and we talk about each individual pillar on onenight. And the kids learn about life, and triathlon, and goal-setting, andeverything else that we have to do. It's awesome, and we continue down thistheme of, “triathlon is hard and it's not for everybody”. It's fun and it canbe social, but at the end of it, it's hard work.  Pushing yourself is hard and challenging, andthat's the joy in doing it. I ask them all the time, “This is hard, why do wedo hard things?” And the answer is, “To become better.” If you want to bebetter at anything in life, do hard things. That's what's so cool about youthtriathlon, is it's a group of these like-minded kids that are choosing to dohard things. It's probably the most exciting thing about the future generation.

Andrew:  Yeah, and JeffBooher, I know for you as wellwith the Tri4Him youth teams, I was on-hand and first-person, that there wasalways you know character development components to the times you were talkingwith the kids, and coaching the kids, and building that into that the practiceschedule, and what was being done and said. So for Tri4Him, I know you personally coached the Junior Elite team, theolder kids. I know there were younger kids that you interacted with and oversawas well. So Jeff, maybe start with the younger kids and tell us, was thereanything that they did in their practices in addition to what TJ mentioned, andthen maybe talk to us about what your personal practices look like with theolder generation?

Jeff:  Sure. Everything TJ said, we did exactly the same philosophy. That was ourformat, keeping it fast and fun, skills-oriented when they're young. We used toalways tease that “fast is fun, but faster is funner”, so really have that fastmentality. One of the things that we have that they sometimes bring in fromparents is a mentality that further is better. In Ironman it's all about distance, and if you can be 13 and do anOlympic distance, and “As soon as I'm 17 I'm doing a half,” just getting awayfrom the sense that these short, fast races are mini, or somehow diminished insome capacity.  In a mile or 100 meter –Usain Bolt is not a mini-marathoner. He's not just doing this little bittymini. It's a different race, and it's very fast. So really keeping them focusedon the skills, the power, the fundamentals. A lot of games we play in there,bike handling skills.  As they got older– a lot of the same things like Ryan mentioned earlier – the fun factor, theylove doing it together, they become very social. So it's very important toincorporate that kind of thing. Figuring out how to do their own personal work,what they need to do, but then also do it together.  We usually had three rides a week that we didtogether, three or four runs, three swims. We didn't do where they were on swim teams, we did all the workoutstogether, swim, bike and run. We have the most fun probably on the bikeworkouts. We have a Texas Motor Speedway where it's a five-mile loop around theSpeedway.  We weren't on the track itselfbut outside the complex in the parking lot, and we did all kinds of fun stuffthere, a lot of handling, a lot of crit-style racing, a lot of drafting. One ofthe funnest things that they loved, and we did it a few different ways, was wedid team pursuit. I would group them in two, three, or four – I’d know howstrong those riders were – and they have to work together to do this five-mileloop.  They go three times around.  So it might be a 15-mile workout, but I wouldstart the slower group first and they might get a three-minute lead, and thenthe next one a minute and a half, and then another minute. So there might be 15minutes between the fastest group and the slower ones, but they have to worktogether.  And sometimes one kid inthere, their strategy is all they have to do is hang on – don’t pull any, justhang on.  The other two have to go asfast as they can, but bring the other along with them. They just love that,because toward the end – I was kind of good at knowing how fast the kids were –but they'd be all finishing within about a minute or two of each other.  And they can kind of see them in thedistance, and working in the next group, so they had that teamwork.  From week to week there may be a stronger oneof the ones pulling them,  and anotherone’s just doing everything they can to hang on, so the younger ones get to bewith the older ones, and it is really cool. A lot of bike handling and fundoing those workouts.

Andrew:  Ryan I'm curious, for Emily, I know in yourbio when you talked about getting into the sport and Emily getting into thesport, she came to you, “Hey, I think I want triathlon to be the sport that Ido.” What age was that for her, and what has her training and developmentlooked like from then until now?

Ryan:  Yeah, so she had done triathlons, like I wassaying before.  I want to say, similar toTJ, I think she had just turned four, like a week outside of her 4th birthday,had little water wings on her for the swim, so cute.  She crosses the line and it's like, “Daddy,Mommy, can I do that again?” Like, that's awesome. So every year we did thesame race. But yeah, she was growing up, she was doing tumbling, like agymnastics-type thing, trampoline and tumbling. Then one day she was just like,“Yeah, I think I want to pursue running and triathlon and not do the gymnasticsstuff anymore.”

Andrew:  It worked out for you and your interests,that's for sure!

Ryan:  Yeah, absolutely! Yeah, it got me here.  But yeah, it was very interesting.  You know, finding coaches I think is reallykey, finding coaches that specialize and know how to work with youth athletes.There's a lot out there, great coaches, but all they know is the long-distancestuff, the Ironman, half-Ironman, Olympic. What the kids are doing is notanywhere close to that, and to TJ's point about mounting the bike and doingflying mounts, well, at these youth and junior elite races, that's costing positions,that's a place at the end of the race, cause they're that close together. Sofinding coaches that actually specialize in it is key, and we've been veryfortunate to have done that.

Jeff:  Yeah so with the kids, just so the listenerscan appreciate this, it's not just that it's a second or two or three faster.It's when they're coming out of the swim, and the bike packs are leaving andpeople are going, if you miss a bike pack, that's going to make two or threeminutes’ difference. That's a strong group going ahead, and if you didn't getin that draft, you're gone, and you’re going to have to wait for the next one.So it can have big, big consequences.

Andrew:  TJ, is that a skill you work on with yourkids?

TJ:  Yeah, all of them, all my kids down to myyoungest.  At race age 6, my 5-year-oldswere constantly working on those mounts and dismounts. Again, to Jeff’s point,you could see which kids have grown up with that and which kids haven't. Youknow, the sport seems like it's unskilled, right? “Oh yeah, swimming, bikingand running, let's leave that sport for adults and not teach that to kids.” Onthe contrary, it's actually highly skilled. These kids are very proficient atit, and there's also an aerobic and anaerobic component to every workout you'redoing. But I also like to keep all my families aware that triathlon issomething where you have to dive head-first into it, right? You don't have tobe all-in and triathlon. I know these other guys know this too, there are kidsthat do triathlon and then swimming, or triathlon swimming and running, ortriathlon and running. There are also kids that play baseball, that playfootball, that just do other sports. You don't need to look at it as, “Oh well,my kid plays basketball, so they're not really going to benefit from doingtriathlon.”  On the contrary, I thinkevery kid could benefit massively from doing some triathlon training,completing a triathlon, and I say the biggest thing that you get from it isthat every parent will love to watch their own kid do a triathlon, cross thefinish line, and then have this huge new self-confidence about what they justdid themselves. I think that's the biggest takeaway every parent could havefrom it. So I'd say to anybody who's listening and saying “Yeah, I don't knowif this is right for my kid.” Trust me, it is right for your kid, because yourkid’s confidence will just go through the roof after they do this.

Andrew:  Yeah TJ, that's definitely something I wantedto touch on today, and you've already brought it up very, very beautifully, soI want to hear what Ryan and Jeff think about this theme as well. Fortriathlon, what really sets it apart as a special sport to involve your kiddosin, versus some of the other things that they might get into – and those weresome beautifully poetic thoughts there from TJ – Jeff, what do you think?

Jeff:  I think there's a number of things, and ofcourse I was telling parents about this throughout more than a decade.  And some of these are benefits that, maybeyou don't get into it because of it, but it's just kind of a fringe benefit.One is there's that epic nature to being a triathlete. It's just so cool. We'venoticed even when applying to colleges, there's a lot of basketball players,baseball players, swimmers, a lot of different sports. But when you say, “I'm atriathlete, I qualified for Nationals five years,” it stands out. It'ssomething that they're really proud of. I think there's a lot of versatility in it because they're doingdifferent things, it's not any one thing, so they have to be very well-rounded.It does take a lot of time as they get more competitive, so they're managingtheir time there. “Here's when I study, here's when I eat, here's when Irecover.”  It teaches them a lot of lifeskills.  I think because nutrition is abig piece, it pulls in that.  There's alot of sports you don't really have to watch what you eat, but a lot of ourkids were naturally watching what they ate. They wanted to fuel well, they wanted to eat good stuff. The mostimportant thing that I think though, is – you have triathlon,  but swimming, biking, and running are thingsthat you can do for your entire life. I'm not going to be playing baseball orbasketball, there's a lot of things that at some point you start pulling musclesand twisting things, but they can do any of those activities for their entirelife. So to be confident and proficient in those is just huge.  So I know, even my kids have been able tobenefit from all those things, and I see our kids that have been on the team, alot of them are 30. We had a couple come to TriDot, getting back into triathlonin their 30’s that I coached 13 years ago, so it's really cool.

Andrew:  Yeah, Ryan, how about for you with yourfirst-hand experience? What difference do you think it's made for Emily versussome other interest or sports paths she could have gone down?

Ryan:  Yeah, I think from my perspective, probablyone of the coolest things is the friendships that they've made. So these kidsare super highly competitive, but they love one another.  She's friends with kids from Virginia, Iowa,South Dakota, Texas, people she would never have been exposed to or becomefriends with without going to these races. Everybody’s just super friendly. You show up to the start line or at the finish line, it's hugseverywhere. They're all on Snapchat and Instagram, and trading phone numbers,and constantly texting one another in the offseason and staying in touch.  It's really cool to see that camaraderieamongst them, but at the end of the day they all want to beat one another, butwhen they get to the finish line, maybe you were 10th that day you wanted towin, but you're happy for the girl that won. So that aspect of it is reallyawesome.

Andrew:  Sure. Yeah, of course. Jeff and TJ, before Imove us from talking about coaching kids into how to get your kids involved inthe sport, I want to hear from both of you, from your time coaching – Jeff,I'll start with you.  In your 21-yearcareer, what is maybe a single standout moment that you look back on, one ofyour most proud, most rewarding moments from your time coaching?

Jeff:  I'll give you a two-for here, it's kind of atwo-part story, and there's a lot of the highlights for sure.  Our kids were doing nationals and all thisstuff, and after the season was over there was kind of a local race.  It was kind of a regional championship race,but for our kids it was not a huge challenge. But I'm out there on the run course cheering the kids along, and one ofthe dads comes running up to me and says, “Grant needs to take a minute off histime! Grant needs to take at least a minute of his time!” And I’m like, “Whatare you talking about?” And he's all frantic, and he tells me the story thatGrant on the bike was around this building, this other part of the course thatyou could hardly see back there, and there's no one to help, but he happened tobe around there.  And some girl, herchain came off, and Grant went by her, stopped, turned around, came back, puther chain on for her. She got off, he went off, and so he was just saying ittook at least 60 to 90 seconds. Just that he would do that, that was hisinstinct to do it, was so cool. We talk about character building and all ofthese different things, it’s pretty easy to make triathlon just all about us.But he did that, and then we found out later the parents found out what happenedon their drive home. They were like a six-hour drive from here, and they foundout the story of what happened, then they called the race director, and iteventually got back to us, and they just said thank you and such.  But fast forward to one of those races thatRyan mentioned earlier, in West Des Moines actually, right there in TJ's neckof the woods there's a qualifier, it’s the last qualifier for Nationals, andGrant, same son, was racing there. We always tell the kids to work together,work together, take turns pulling so they're going to be faster, they don'twork too hard so they have a great run. And he keeps coming back every lap, and he's behind this other teammateof ours, Jacob Shepherd.  And Jacob'spulling and Grant’s drafting the whole time. It’s like, “Yo, work together! Work together!” And like, “They're notdoing what they're told!” And Jacob's dad’s going, “Come on, work togetherJacob, let him pull!” Then after the race, Grant qualifies, he has a great run,and Jacob suffered on the run, and I said “What was going on? Great race,congratulations, but why didn't you help Jacob? Why was he pulling?” And hegoes, “Dad, he wouldn't let me! I said I would pull and Jacob said, ‘I'vealready qualified but you haven't qualified. I'm gonna pull you around thisthing so you can have the best run of your life and qualify for Nationals.’” Soin the middle of a race, this 16-year-old, 15-year-old has the presence of mindto help his teammate, sacrificed his own race because he'd already qualifiedfor Nationals, and just helped Grant do that. So I just think that's wonderful, when you have an environment, evenduring races, where we're helping each other, aware of other people, and seeinghow our training, our racing, everything is just such an encouragement, and howwe can just help other people be better people. Anyway, those are two of the things that just stand out I'll neverforget.

Andrew:  TJ for you, what is a most rewarding momentfrom your youth coaching career thus far?

TJ:  Yeah, it's all these things that Jeff'stalking about.  It's these small thingsthat these kids pick up on.  I'll give agood example of this last night.  Lastnight at practice, we had a bike crash. Nobody likes having bike crashes and every time we have a bike crash weget more lectures about safety, and “Hey guys, we need to make sure we're beingsafe, because we've got one race left this weekend, and we can't be crashing onthe bike. We have to make sure we're doing this.”  And I'm not asking anybody to point out whocaused this, what happened, but without even saying anything I know whathappened, because the person that caused the crash is the one that goes backand asks this person if they're okay and if they need help. So it's just likeright away you're instilling these character traits in these individuals, andthey're showing them in real time. That's the most rewarding thing, it's the teamwork that Jeff's talkingabout. It's when you see these kids and they know how to set goals and know howto be safe, they know how to be accountable, respectful, have humility in theirlife. It's just a super empowering part of youth sports. I'm not saying theycan't get that from playing football or basketball or any other sport, right?But it's a little bit different when they're in triathlon, and they're in thisindividual sport that's also a team. They're really being called out and forcedto show what they have to bring to the table, and I think they're all betterserved in life because of that.

Andrew:  Yeah. And then obviously pitching this overto you, Ryan.  As a parent, with yourkiddo racing at an elite level at the moment, what is this answer for you, themost rewarding moment watching your daughter do youth tri?

Ryan:  We were talking about Daytona last year, wecalled it the Knophle Clash at Daytona. Emily and I went head-to-head in theSprint, we set it up to where we started in the water at the exact same time onthe rolling start, so that way we knew whoever crossed the line first was thewinner.  So I knew she would get me inthe swim, and then my hope was the bike. So I caught her on the bike, it took me a lot longer than I expectedto.  Finally caught her, and I was hopingI had a big enough gap going into the run to hold her off because she's prettyquick.  Sure enough, on the run about amile, mile and a half into it, she passes me. Another boy running with her had actually made a wrong turn on the bike– not sure how you do that when it was on a Speedway and it's just an oval, butsomehow he made the wrong turn – but he knows Emily, they both race in theyouth and junior series together. So he was running with her, and I don't knowthis for sure, but my assumption is he was pacing her so she could beat me, orto help her beat me.

Jeff:  That’s awesome.

Ryan:  But yeah, she comes by me, I hung as long asI could and made it about two miles, and then she was gone. That was the firstrace she officially beat me. So that's kind of my humbling moment, but alsoprobably one of my proudest moments as a parent, in seeing her hard work cometo fruition.

Andrew:  Yeah, very cool. I'll be curious to see howlong it takes TJ's kids to try to get faster than him. I know he's still prettyquick and pretty competitive at the local races in Des Moines.  So for anyone in our audience who has beenlistening to this, and they have little- to medium-sized people in their ownhouse, under the age of 18 of course, who might be interested in introducingthose kids to youth triathlon, what is the best way to go about doing this,finding out, “Is this a sport my kids might be interested in,” and how to evengo about getting in their first crack at triathlon? TJ, what do you think?

TJ:  There's several ways to go about this.  One, you can just bring up your computer,your phone, do a Google search for “youth triathlon in my area”, see what popsup. You can sign up to do a triathlon. We've got a cool thing right now, weactually had some parents that donated this race this weekend in Iowa, allfirst-time kids get to do this race for free. So we have some initiatives and things like this to try to bringfirst-time athletes into the sport. But you don't need to join the team beforeyou do your first race.  This is a bigone that I have with people.  Your kidcan do one of these youth races without joining a team. Now I'll say it'sperfectly fine to be the other way around too, because if your kid joins theteam and then does the race, they're going to have a lot more confidence goinginto the race. But whatever route you choose, the kid’s going to have anunbelievable experience with it. I see very few kids that do one triathlon andsay, “I never want to do another one.” It might not be their thing, they mightnot be like “Hey, I need to do a hundred of these a year,” but very few do oneand say, “Nah, I never want to do that again.” Because even when you have a badthing – we know this as adults, it's like you crossed the finish line of anIronman and you're like, “Ooh, I don't know if I could do that again, I don'tknow how I want to do that again,” and then five minutes later you're like,“You know, maybe I'll go to Arizona for my next race.” Kids are no different.  They're thinking about the adversity, andthen they think about overcoming this adversity, and it just brings out theseendorphins and these positive memories and experiences, and then they think,“How can I get this fix again?” So yeah, you can either search USA Triathlon forevents, you can do a Google search for youth triathlons because there's a lotof unsanctioned youth events that happen as well.  But you can also look at USA Triathlon’s listof clubs and find the nearest club to you and reach out to them and get sometraining in before. Jeff, what did I miss?

Jeff:  That pretty much summed it up.  It varies a lot by where you are in thecountry, how many races there are.  Onthe USAT site, they have a thing called the High Performance Team, HPT, andthose are the ones that are doing the more elite draft-legal racing, so theyhave a list of those there.  But Icompletely agree with TJ, just get your kids to a race. Just let them do one,no pressure. We have a kids race here in town, they don't even time it. Theyjust say, “Come have fun, get through it.” And if your kids are morecompetitive, same thing, just go to a national qualifier.  Find one and just go watch it, go observe andsee what it's about. It's so exciting just to see it, and there's this wholeother world of racing that just opens their eyes, they’re like, “Wow, I can dothat.” It's really cool.

Andrew:  Cool. So Jeff, a question I see every sooften on the TriDot chat forums is, “Can youth and junior athletes use TriDotfor their training?” Usually it is a TriDot parent, an adult using TriDot, andthey want to get their teenager or their youth and junior athlete on TriDot todo the same training they are.  What isthe answer to this occasionally-asked question? It's not a frequently-asked question, I’m going to call it anoccasionally-asked question.

Jeff:  Well, it's a great question. I love it. So Ihave used TriDot for youth and juniors. Let me give you kind of the lay of theland.  “It depends” is the answer.  One is, the algorithms are geared towardadults. There's not really a way to see the hormone changes and all of theadolescence, and there's periods where the kids are growing three or fourinches in a few months, so energy needs are different, and that varies fromperson to person, year in age. All of that static are knowable and predictable asyou get older, but when you go through that period, the 11, 12, 13 to 18, 19,those things change. So from that standpoint, it doesn't take those things intoaccount. There's some real-life, very practical things, so I guess it would be“What are your other options?” If your other option is a template plan or astatic plan or something like that, absolutely use TriDot. If it's working witha group of athletes and a local team, that’s much better for a number ofreasons. One is that socializing is so important for kids that age. It's justthe fun factor, doing it with their peers. We've had kids that just won’t workout if they're not doing it with their friends, they just won't do it. So someof it is the individual personality of the athlete in adolescence. Anotherthing is the schedule.  A lot of timesthey're doing other events.  We encouragethem and  we want them to do otherevents, other sports, basketball and all these other things. And sometimes wework them in so that they're doing that, we're aware, and the AI will certainlyget that workload.  It depends on ifthey're in track, if they're running cross country or swimming, that's great.But sometimes when we plan a workout, “Hey, you're supposed to do this veryimportant workout on Friday,” and then they do something completely differentin school that day and they show up and say, “Hey, my coach made me do this.”That kind of stuff now has an impact. So it's better if they can be on a plan,or with the team working in that environment. There's just a number ofdifferent things we've had.  Most of thetimes that we've used it, it's been when athletes were remote, they didn't liveclose enough. On our junior team, we’ve had people driving several hours, anhour and a half four or five times a week to get to our practice, to work outwith the elite group. And sometimes it's just not possible. So if you're doingthat and you’re a more remote athlete in several different states, and theyshow up for the qualifying races, but in the meantime, in between – they were alittle older, 16, 17, 18 – they were disciplined, they chose the sport. So alot of those things went away, so they were using TriDot very successfully,qualifying for Nationals, and did very, very well. I hope all of that iscontext and useful, so I guess it really depends on the options available toyou.

Andrew:  So once your kids are interested in youthtri, just like adults, there's a decent amount of gear and equipment that isrequired to do one of these. You’ve got to have a bike, got to have a helmet,got to have some run shoes, a pair of goggles. Yeah, a couple of essentials anda couple of add-ons. Ryan, I'll start with you on this one. As a current triparent, what is your advice for getting all the gear that your kid needs, anddoing that in the best way possible?

Ryan:  Yeah, the biggest thing to remember is whenyou're first getting into it, you don't need to go out and buy a $5,000 or$8,000 bike. Go to ride your Huffy, ride whatever –

Andrew:  You can, from TJ. Yeah, you can buy one.

TJ:  Yeah, yeah, he would like that. But you don'tneed to, and it can be a big barrier for some of these kids coming out,thinking they need to be on road bikes and whatnot. No, show up on your beachcruiser, nobody cares. There's going to be a ton of other kids at the racedoing the exact same thing. So go out, have fun with it, learn about it, andthen if you decide to get more and more serious with it, then you can slowlyupgrade as you go along.  And if you getassociated with a club, kids grow, so there's somebody always outgrowing abike. They're always outgrowing a wetsuit that you can get for way, way cheaperthan if you were going to buy new.

Andrew:  TJ, as you coach the younger kids – I knowyou probably deal with this a lot as parents are getting their kids in thesport for the first time – what are your pointers here for accumulating thecorrect gear for your kid and their size and their ability?

TJ:  You know, you definitely don't have to go buyanything, and certainly there'll be kids doing their first triathlon in swimtrunks, that’s a thing. The beach cruiser, that's fine, there's nothing wrongwith it. I've got kids that do their first triathlon and kids that do myprogram that just ride the bike that they ride around the neighborhood, andthey do their triathlon training on it. Then the other gear part for the run is, you used to have to findelastic laces and teach kids how to do that. Well, you don't anymore becauseevery shoe company, whether it's Nike or Skechers, they all make kids shoesthat are laceless. So it's actually a huge advantage for kids these days, asit's super easy for them to get laceless shoes, and they don't cost very muchmoney. So yeah, I think there's a spot for everybody, regardless of your incomelevel or your equipment, and I think regardless of all that, the community isvery giving, and that's how we have things like every kid gets to race theirfirst for free. There's these families that are willing to help provideequipment even at no cost to a lot of these people to make sure that they cando their first triathlon.

Andrew:  For each of you, close us down with just onestory of something you encountered in your tri coaching that only happened andwas only said because you were working with youth. Jeff Booher, I'll go to youfirst on this.

Jeff:  Oh boy. I know one thing jumped out, and itis very, very astute. He's 15 or 16 years old, racing very well, but he saw anold coach that he'd worked with in a different sport before.  She saw him in a race, and she came up andsaid “Man, Steven, you're doing incredible, you're doing great!  You've improved so much!” And he goes, “Yep,I changed something. You want to know what it was?” And I was like, “Oh mygosh, what's he gonna say?” He goes, “I changed my attitude.” And all of us,all the adults, were like, “Whoa, that's pretty deep for a 15-year-old.” Thatis super cool.

Andrew:  Yeah, very good self-awareness for a young15-year-old man there, maybe even more self-awareness than many adults. RyanKnophle, as a parent this might be a little different for you, but what issomething that you've only heard or seen at the races because you were in thepresence of youth triathletes?

Ryan:  There's a recent race, the main coach wasgoing to be there, and one of the athletes that really thrives withencouragement was there, so I went to talk to her before the race, “Hey, what'syour race plan? What are you looking at?” Just talking to her a little bitabout tactics of the race, how it's going to play out. “There's a big hill inthe race, what are you planning on doing on the hill on the run? Are you gonnago slow up it and mentally shut down because it's a hill and you have to work?Or are you gonna attack the hill and say ‘I'm gonna get to the top as fast as Ican so I can turn around and run down this hill?’” And really, the biggestthing after the race, hearing her say, “Hey, that was awesome, that advice wasexactly what helped me get through the hill, and I actually attacked the hill.”Hearing her have that positive attitude about it was pretty awesome.

Andrew:  Yeah, there you go! There you go, getting tobe Coach Ryan for a little bit there, and with a little bit of a rewardingmoment. TJ Tollakson, shut us down with your “kids say the darndest things”triathlon moment.

TJ:  Alright, so I had a kid in his first year oftriathlon, of course he's doing all the right things. He's got a bike, he's gotlaceless shoes, and he's trying to put his shoes on as quickly as possible intransition and get out on the bike. So as a result of that – and I've seenmultiple kids do the same thing – they don't actually put their heel in theirshoe.  They just put their toes in andthen run out with their bike. So this one particular kid has got just his toesin his shoes and he's riding around, and all of a sudden, one shoe just fliesoff on the bike course. Like it's gone, one shoe. So then he's barefoot on onefoot, and on the top of his shoe on the other, he’s finishing the bike courseand he's crying on the bike course and he's like, “My shoe, my shoe isgone!  I don’t know where it is!” So I'mout there and telling him, “All right, just keep riding, keep riding.” Then hegets off the bike, he comes into transition, and he's just throwing a fit becausehe has one shoe on and one shoe off. And I told him, “Listen, you got ahalf-mile run.  I know this is going tobe bad because a tiny bit of this is actually on some crushed limestone, butjust take the other shoe off and run.”

Andrew:  Of course.

TJ:  “Just take the other shoe off and run.” So wewent full-on Pose method, barefoot running. It's good for the kids, and hefinished, and what was crazy was the whole lesson out of this was just to gethim to keep going. That's a life lesson, because things are going to gowrong.  So here I had a – I think he wassix years old at the time he did this – so this six-year-old kid, one shoe allof a sudden, so he finishes the bike with one shoe, and then he does the runwith no shoes, and a little bit of that on gravel. It's just a lesson, “Heylook, you can do it. You’ve got to believe you can do it. You’ve got toovercome adversity and just keep going.”

Cool down theme: Great set everyone! Let’s cool down.

Vanessa Ronksley: It is time for the Coach Cooldown Tip, and I'mVanessa your Average Triathlete with Elite-Level Enthusiasm! Today's guest isTriDot Coach Caleb Chapman, who spends his days as a controller at Detail Mold& Manufacturing, and the rest of his time occupying one of these roles:successful triathlete and coach, husband to his beautiful wife, father to histwo young daughters – congratulations on the newest addition, by the way – anda fur daddy to two dogs. Here are some other things that you might want to knowabout Caleb.  He is too modest to sharethem himself, so I'll do the honors. He is a TriDot Pool School instructor,certified Ironman U coach, he competed in 2021 70.3 Worlds, has never DNFed atriathlon, he is a true believer in TriDot, as his 400-meter swim time wentfrom six minutes to five minutes, and he has had to do three marathons tofinally beat his Ironman run time. All of that is pretty impressive, Caleb.Welcome to the show!

Caleb Chapman:  Well thank you for that intro,Vanessa, and it's great to be back on the podcast.

Vanessa:  And now further to all of the awesomenessthat we just talked about, you are a certified advanced scuba diver. So what isthe coolest thing that you have seen while diving?

Caleb:  Well, my all-time favorite dive would have to bewhat's called a nighttime drift dives, and it was in Cancun.  So the nighttime part is prettyself-explanatory, but the drift part means that you intentionally dive down toa rip current, and you let it take you for a ride.  So at one point you get to shut off all yourflashlights, and then you see the awesome bioluminescent life that lives in theocean. Yeah, it looks like there's stars all around you.  So you're just getting carried by thecurrent, looking at these stars underwater, it's a pretty cool sight.

Vanessa:  Now one more title that you hold is Core BodyTemp Coach, and I think this has something to do with the tip that you're goingto share with us today, so tell us what it is.

Caleb:  Yes. So today's tip is to train hot and racecold. This all started from my experience living in Texas, where summer racescan easily be 90 degrees Fahrenheit by 9:00 AM. I struggle big-time in the heat, and I realized that I can't be the onlyone, so I wanted to help others who were like me that just don’t excel in theheat.  So it starts with the core bodytemp sensor, and I provide these to my athletes so we both get an idea of howtheir body responds and performs in the heat. Everyone is different, but itshows you your actual core body temperature. Some of the athletes can easilypush up to 104 degrees Fahrenheit and keep going, but others suffer at 102, andyou get to see this on your watch real-time. So our goal is to train the bodyto perform better in the heat, and you have to practice it by training hot.There's no substitution. You can sit in the sauna or a hot tub, but that justtrains your body to be hot, it's not on your load. So in order to train hot,the goal is two to four weeks of every session being in a heat training zone,and we nail this down with a heat ramp test. It breaks out your zones where youperform or train, or your red zone, which is overheat training. Then after thatyou want to perform about three sessions a week with 30 or more minutes abovethat training zone, which for me is about 101. Garmin calls this heatadaptation, which doesn't mean you could just go run your threshold base fromthe winter in July. It just means that your body has a chance to optimize its sweatrate, and that perceived heat may be not as high. Then you want to race cold,and we aren't talking about your muscles being cold.  You still want to do a proper warmup, but allthe little choices that you can make, barring moving to Alaska, is stuff likewear wicking fabrics, wear light colors – I don't know if you've seen thoseOmius headbands – running in the shade, just doing whatever you can fromkeeping that temperature from rising. Put ice everywhere, in your water, inyour hat, your hands, your mouth, down your shirt, down your shorts  – that seems to be a personal preference –put water on your head.  And of courseproper hydration. You pretty much can't get your core temperature to dropunless you stop or walk, so if you do have a core temperature sensor, don'tjust look at it after the fact. It needs to be something you use, like heartrate, to where you know where your zones are, and if you're in danger ofblowing up your race early.

Vanessa:  Wow, that is mind blowing and fascinating. SoI'm curious, if you live somewhere cold, how do you create this hotenvironment? The training cold part is not necessarily a hard part to recreate,but what about recreating that hot environment? How would you go about doingthat?

Caleb:  The best way to do it would be training indoors,and putting on layers of clothing. You can put on sweatpants over your normalcycling kit.  For the treadmill, samething, you can just put on layers. Don't have the fan on indoors.  Turn up the heat, if you have a space heater,you could put that in your gym. Just make it warmer than normal, and your bodytemperature will rise. You'll start to sweat more than normal, and that's whatyou're trying to get your body to do is create that sweat reaction.

Vanessa:  That's crazy. Okay, so this is reallyamazing. I had no idea that going in the hot tub or the sauna had very littleto do with helping you to become acclimatized to the heat. That's reallyinteresting.

Caleb:  It's still a helpful thing to do, especiallyafter a hard workout. You can add to your heat acclimation time by doing thesauna afterwards, but you still want to perform in the heat.

Vanessa:  Okay, and how far in advance do you need todo these things, if you have a really hot race? Do you have to do this all thetime, or is it just a certain period of time before the race that you're goingto be doing?

Caleb:  Not all of the time. Three to six months out,depending on how hot your race is going to be and how well you perform in theheat.

Vanessa:  Okay, that's a long time of wearingsweatpants on your trainer.

Caleb:  You can get down to just three sessions a weekof heat training. You could also do the meat of your session, and then for theZone 2 part afterwards, is when you could put on your sweatpants and sweatshirtto keep your core body temperature up.

Outro:Thanks for joining us. Make sure to subscribe and share the TriDot podcast withyour triathlon crew. For more great tri content and community, connect with uson Facebook, YouTube, and Instagram. Ready to optimize your training? Head totridot.com and start your free trial today! TriDot – the obvious and automaticchoice for triathlon training.

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