TriDot Podcast .145

Triathlon Bike Fit: Perfecting Your Position

Intro: This is the TriDot podcast. TriDot uses your training data and genetic profile, combined with predictive analytics and artificial intelligence to optimize your training, giving you better results in less time with fewer injuries. Our podcast is here to educate, inspire, and entertain. We’ll talk all things triathlon with expert coaches and special guests. Join the conversation and let’s improve together.

Andrew Harley: Welcome to the TriDot podcast. When I think about how much time we spend on our bikes, it blows my mind how we’ve made it over 140 episodes without a bike fit podcast episode. Well, today we are going to be correcting that and I am very excited about the gentleman that I have with me to cover everything triathletes need to know about bike fits. Our first guest is Master Retul Fitter, Craig Fulk. Founder of Dynamic Bike Fit in Roanoke, Texas. Craig is an International Bike Fitting Institute level four fitter which is reserved for fitters at the top of their profession and requires a minimum of 2400 fit experiences as well as evidence that a fitter is considered to be one of the best in the world. He’s a USA Cycling level two coach, he studied biomechanics and exercise physiology at the University of North Texas. He is currently a doctoral student at Texas A&M in kinesiology and sport management. His area of focus is on how technology affects traditional sport participation and virtual sport. And as if all of that wasn’t enough anecdotally I had several triathletes personally recommend Craig to me for my own bike that needs. Craig gave me a tri bike fit in February 2021 and just gosh, I think he nailed it. Plus, I just really enjoyed our conversation in the passion and the knowledge I can tell he has when it comes to bike fit. So Craig, thanks so much for coming on the TriDot podcast.

Craig Fulk: Thank you for inviting me.

Andrew: Also joining us is Coach John Mayfield. John is a USAT Level II and Ironman U certified coach who leads TriDot’s athlete services, ambassador, and coaching programs. He has coached hundreds of athletes ranging from first-timers to Kona qualifiers and professional triathletes. John has been using TriDot since 2010 and coaching with TriDot since 2012. Now John, you have advocated many times on the podcast for folks to get a proper bike fit. Are you happy to see an entire episode dedicated to this today?

John Mayfield: I am and I’ve got to say it is probably not my fault that it’s taken this long to get one. So we’ve certainly discussed it a lot on a lot of podcast episodes. You know it’s hard to have a bike episode where bike fit doesn’t come up. So yeah it’s come up lots of times, but yeah excited to have a full episode and really excited to have someone as qualified to speak to everything as Craig. So it’s going to be a good one.

Andrew: I'm Andrew the Average Triathlete, Voice of the People and Captain of the Middle of the Pack. As always we'll treat the show as any good workout. We’ll roll through our warm up question, settle in for our main set conversation, and then wind things down with our cool down. Lots of good stuff, let's get to it!

Warm up theme: Time to warm up! Let’s get moving.

Andrew: With a variety of paint schemes and tube shapes, bikes are often as much fun to look at as they are to ride. Most of us own one to a handful of bikes personally, but we have admired the sleek lines in good looks of countless others in the cycle sphere. John, Craig, beauty is certainly in the eye of the beholder so from all the bikes you have beheld. What bike would you say is the best looking bike that you have ever seen? And Craig we’ll start with you on this.

Craig: So I kind of like the classic colors found in the old steel bikes

Andrew: Okay.

Craig: The Bianki Celeste, but when carbon came along for a long time we only saw black carbon frames. Everybody's bike was black– well sometimes red, but for the most part black and boring. Now I’m seeing a lot more creative color schemes.

Andrew: Yeah.

Craig: There’s some really beautiful bikes out there. But I would have to say a veteran client of mine had a custom paint job done by another client of mine.

Andrew: Sure.

Craig: And his tribike is painted in the look of a waving American flag and it is gorgeous.

Andrew: Wow. John kickin this over to you. What do you think is just the best looking bike you’ve ever laid your eyes on?

John: So yeah it’s kinda cool just to walk around the transition area and just check everything out. Everybody's got a little bit of an individualized flare on them and so many of them are largely the same. You know there's probably half the bikes out there are one, two, three brands and not even models, but it’s kind of cool to see the customization, the individualization that each athlete puts on their own bike. But one that came to mind is Ande Webner’s custom wrapped bike. We’ll have to put up a picture of it. It is very unique and super cool.

Andrew: Both of you guys are giving shout outs to some custom wrapped bikes. I’m gonna go a little more traditional here. I love one of the newer models of the Bianchi Specialissima and I wish I could afford that bike. They’re gorgeous bikes. They’re over $10,000 so it’s a little bit out of my budget, but the newest Specialissima has a green blue color scheme and so it’s kind of like a darker take on the traditional Celeste Bianchi color and the Bianchi logo is that Celeste within that and I was actually on course at 70.3 Worlds in St. George, we had a lot of TriDot athletes racing 70.3 Worlds last year in 2021 and I was on course and a road cyclist actually went by where I was spectating. Not in the race just kind of out for a ride and he was riding that exact bike and it just looked gorgeous in person– that kind of blue green color scheme. It was a Bianchi, but it caught your eye kind of a different way from the Celeste color palette of the normal Bianchis. Guys we’re gonna throw this question out to you like we always do. I’m really curious to hear what you had to say. From all the bikes that you’ve ever seen what you think is the best looking? Maybe it’s yours, maybe it’s a friend’s, maybe it’s one you’ve just seen floating around on Instagram, but make sure you are a part of the “I AM TriDot” Facebook group. We have thousands of triathletes just talking swim, bike, and run every single day. And every Monday when the new show comes out we throw this question out to you, our audience. I think it’s just going to be pictures galore on this one. So go find this question, answer the question, post a picture of what you think is just the most gorgeous bike out there in the cycling world.

Main set theme: On to the main set. Going in 3…2…1…

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Andrew: On paper bike fit is an applied science and in practice it’s an art. In a space where a few millimeters here and a few degrees of angle there make all the difference. It’s no wonder that many triathletes will travel far and wide to find a fitter who knows his or her stuff. And lucky for us we definitely have a world-class fitter on the show today to teach us everything triathletes need to know about bike fit. Other than go get one, of course, as we’ve said on the show many, many times. Go get a fit. So Craig to get us going here in the main set, let’s just kind of hear your background first as a cyclist. Surely no one starts as a bike fitter without first being a cyclist themselves. When did you get into road cycling and what are some of the highlights from your time on two wheels?

Craig: So I was fortunate enough to have a pro cycling event come through the town I grew up in when I was 12 years old. I started riding when I was 12, 13 years old and got into competitive cycling at that time. The interesting thing is while I do have a lot of wins and a lot of great races and all of that, the one thing when I think of the highlight, and this goes to a personal side, was being around a great group of senior and master riders that really looked after us kids at the time. We had a really big group, they were good mentors for us. So that had an impact on my life. I enjoyed living and training in Colorado Springs. It was my junior year of high school and that was great; traveling to races coast to coast. You’re a teenager and you’re on your own.

Andrew: Yeah.

Craig: Traveling the country your parents aren’t with you and I think about that today and would people still have that ability today for their children and would they want or allow that to happen. I’m very thankful for that freedom that cycling afforded me growing up, and if you were to ask my mom, my mom would say the highlight was cycling kept me out of trouble.

Andrew: Okay.

John: There’s a meme that’s like “Teach your kids to love cycling and they’ll never have money for drugs.” I guess that’s part of that.

Andrew: I guess I haven't seen that one but it’s accurate. So Craig you started riding when you were younger and just traveled the country doing those races as a kid and grew up loving it. So when did you get your interest in fitting and what were kind of the steps that you took to go from aspiring fitter to the Master Fitter that you are now?

Craig: So I’ll kind of step back a little bit. I left cycling in 1991. I was in college at the time, in college the first time.

Andrew: Still in college.

Craig: Still in college. So yeah, I left cycling. I was working in medicine at the time, then moved to Houston. Kind of left school, scorched earth, and started a computer company. I built an Internet company in the early days before it was the cool thing to have. In part of that I became a software developer, then a software architect. I went to work in corporate America and while there of course I was carrying extra pounds on me, a lot of extra pounds. We had a competition at work to lose weight. At one point they said you need to kick in some exercise, it’s not all about diet. They said go out and run, go swim as well. I don’t do those but I still have my old road bike.

Andrew: Sure, yeah!

Craig: So I broke that out, started losing weight, that was in May of ‘06. By July of ‘06 I decided to start racing again. I got very competitive again, I was really enjoying that, and then I started looking at things and how people were getting set up on their bikes. I was like, wow with all this technology we have these days, why are we still doing things the same way we did them in the 70’s and the 80’s…

Andrew: Wow.

Craig: … when I worked in a bike shop as a kid. You know, we are still fitting the same way and even today, even now a lot of shops still fall in line with the Italian bike fit from the 70s and 80’s. In 2009 I considered building my own system and started doing a little research and Retul was already on that path. So I flew up to Denver, I met with Todd Carver and Cliff Sims and others and kind of looked at it and I decided to adopt theirs, and it was hey we were there let's go with that no need to try to build my own thing.

Andrew: Yeah.

Craig: So that seemed like a good fit to take my medical background, the technical background that I have in software development and technology and networking all of those fun things, and tying that to my cycling background. But I want to be very clear back in 2009 everyone thought I was crazy to embark on this journey. But I saw something else there and I stuck to it and started deeper and deeper and deeper into building that knowledge space. So with that came getting more and more education on the body and engaging with competing fit schools. I engaged in processes of other fit schools that don’t, you know use– Retul has it’s own has right– so looking at that and through all of it I came up with a composite service which is what we call here our dynamic bike fit. So that’s kind of how we got there.

Andrew:  So Craig I didn’t include all of your certifications and accolades into your intro earlier in the show because there were just too many of them and we only have an hour on the show and I can spend the whole hour just saying all your qualifications. But one of your qualifications that is vital to this conversation is that you are Retul triathlon and time trial certified, and you have a deep experience here in the Dallas Fort Worth area fitting both road cyclists and triathletes. What are the differences in doing a fit for a road bike versus a tri bike?

Craig: So just fundamentally, two different positions. If you look at it a triathlete back angle range is going to be a lot lower on a road bike a relaxed tri position is the drops position on a road bike. So what happens there when we lower our back we close the hip off more so the back angle relationships; how that relates to hip angle which maybe we’ll talk about later crank length, that’s a fun thing to talk about.

Andrew: Yeah. We’ll get to it.

Craig: But you know keeping that hip open on a tri bike is important. So when you get off the bike you know one of the things triathletes will say to me after a fit, “Oh my bike was so great” and I asked him immediately. “How was your run? How was your run off the bike?” “Oh it was great.” Then I feel success.

Andrew: Yeah.

Craig: But if you say “My bike was great, but man I couldn’t stand up. I had a hard time running, had a hard time getting going.” We need work– we need to do something different there. Because a triathlete is different. Triathletes coming in off the bike their shoulders are upset with them, their arms are upset with them for swimming for so long and they want to be comfortable on the bike, produce the power, but we’ve also got to get off the bike and run.

Andrew: Yeah.

Craig: Whereas if you look at a time trial fit, back angles are lower, the hip tends to be more closed off, and frankly we don’t care about getting off the bike and doing anything after a time trial. I don’t need to stand up straight. I don’t even need to walk much less run a marathon.

Andrew: Yeah.

Craig: So that’s important and then also taking into account what events are you doing? Are you doing sprint, Olympic, halfs, or fulls? That can affect the position as well. But a lot of focus of mine goes into the hip for a triathlete just because of the lower back angle.

Andrew: So before we even walk through the door for our bike fit, what do we need to do as the athlete? What we need to bring with us to kind of set us up for a good fit session with a fitter?

Craig: For us here, tight fitting cycling shorts, cycling shoes, we can work with the rest. You know, arrive rested. Don’t go out and do a half Ironman and show up to me in the afternoon and say “Hey do my fit.” So kind of don’t show up drained. Show up with your bike in good working order so we’re not chasing any repairs or any kind of problems that detract from the fit process.

Andrew: Have you had along the way, Craig, have you had clients come in that were just totally unprepared for their fit and it kind of threw off the fit process because of it?

Craig: I’ve had people show up with almost a bike in a box.

Andrew: Okay.

Craig: I’m not putting your bike together. I’m here about your position and getting you where you need to be.

Andrew: So Craig there are many steps to a quality fit session. So I’ll let you walk us through the fit process and probably John and I will stop and ask a few questions along the way. So once an athlete is in your studio, the bike did not come in a box, the bike was already put together, you can fit that athlete, you know you’re ready to rock ‘n’ roll, what is the first step through a bike fit and just kinda take us through your process.

Craig: So I do a comprehensive questionnaire in advance so I kind of get an idea what you’re coming in with with your problems. We discuss those and get a little bit of history. Kind of like why are you here for the fit. Are there things bothering you? Then I do a detailed measurement of your bike. Some fitters don’t do this. I find it valuable because we’re building a data set. You’re saying that you have these problems with this position. If I measure that position, now I have it for historical purposes so I can say when you’re in this position, you had back pain or hip pain so we can relate it. Then we move on to a comprehensive off bike assessment where we’re looking at things like core strength, flexibility, foot structure, range of motion in the joints, leg length differences. What’s going on with the body? Is there a limitation in the hip that is going to prevent me from getting you into a more aero position or where you may want to go. Then we put  markers on both left and right sides of the body. I use the Retul system for a 3-D motion capture. In my studio, we capture the left and right sides simultaneously; we have two Retul systems. Other fitters may mark up both sides and put you on kind of a lazy Susan, turn your bike around. But I opted to do both at the same time. Some fitters I’ve heard will only look at one side of the body. I’m opposed to that. We can go back to the prior step of the off bike assessment and you start to look at leg length differences or range of motion differences. Now we are going to have bilateral differences in motion and how do we address those. I use a technology called gebioMized for saddle pressure mapping. We put a pad on your saddle. We’re actively measuring saddle pressure as you’re riding the bike. With that we are allowed the opportunity to collect motion data and pressure data at the same time. So we are seeing left and right sides of the body and how your butt is interfacing the bike. We take all that data, bring it together, triangulate it with the rider history, off bike assessment, motion and pressure together, and then we make decisions. How does the data reflect the problems that the rider may be experiencing or seeing and how can I change their bike to alleviate those issues for them and of course, hopefully, not create any new ones.

Andrew: Sure. Yeah. I know one of the number one issues I hear cyclist talk about, and I think probably one of the things that sparks people to get a bike fit in the first place, is if they’re experiencing some sort of tingling in the feet in the hands, maybe even numbness in the feet, hands, different parts of the legs, arms. What is it like when a rider comes in, they have an issue like that. What is the detective work you have to do to figure out why that’s happening and alleviate it?

Craig: So I dive deeper into the question. So what fingers are going numb? Where do you feel the numbness? Is it going down the leg? Does it relieve itself quickly by doing something? If I stand up the problem goes away immediately. So then you can look at that and say “Well that’s more of a vascular issue, it’s just no blood flow to the nerve and you open the flood gates and it’s all happy it’s getting its nutrients.

Andrew: Yeah.

Craig: Whereas if it hangs around for a long time afterwards, now we’re talking about nerve impingement. We’re talking about a nerve, nervous system issue that we need to correct. But the number one thing that I find riders coming in– more than half of my clients– I think it’s close to I think 59% when I was looking at some numbers the other day. Clients come in with a saddle complaint of some sort. That’s getting into genital numbness, saddle pressure, chafing, various things like that. A lot of people will say I want to throw my saddle out. It’s the saddl’s fault. But yeah, a lot of times it is the saddl’s fault, I won’t lie to you on that. But I also have several instances where it’s not the saddl’s fault. It’s the rest of the position. It’s how we’re positioned on it. Where are we in space on the bike to go after those numbness issues. But really asking questions about getting into detail which fingers, is it chronic, does it hang around? When you get into the feet it could be the shoe, it could be the insoles, it could be an unsupported foot. There’s a lot of things to look at especially when it comes to the extremities.

Andrew: Yeah, which thinking back to our fit session in February 2021, I mean you got me into a different insole in my shoe that and I remember you explaining to me because I had some tingling in my left foot and so you got a insole that shaped to my foot better and it allowed my foot to have more contact with the insole as opposed just a few spots of my foot having contact with the insole, which then helped alleviate that numbness. So that was certainly the issue for me. I was pleased, Craig, that that my saddle wasn’t the issue. I think I’ve I probably tried 10, 11, 12 different saddles over the years and I thought I had found the one that my butt got along with the best and so you were able to confirm that that saddle was in fact, a good fit for me. So let’s talk about that saddle selection for a second because, you put a pressure mapping system underneath the butt. You’re able to tell where on the butt the pressure is being applied and for me I actually have a significant leg length discrepancy and so for me it was “Okay. This is actually a really good saddle for you, but we need to do some things to your fit.” I think I was applying a lot more pressure to my right sit bone than my left sit bone and so you were able to even me out and you were the third different fitter I’ve seen in the Dallas Fort Worth area and you were the first one to  figure out, “Oh, you are putting a lot of weight on your right sit bone not the left.” and now I’m much more even on my saddle thanks to you doing that pressure mapping. So talk a little bit about saddle selection and what you see when you look at where the butt is actually applying pressure to the saddle.

Craig: Well you just highlighted a key element to our process and that is the triangulation. The off bike assessment said you had a leg length difference. We found that. We were able to quantify that.

Andrew: Yeah.

Craig: The saddle pressure mapping then validated, yes we are sitting and then we can see the pressure so why is that pressure there? You're compensating for your leg length difference. If we fix that, will you still compensate? Then we can measure the saddle pressure after making those changes and say “Did that go away?” I like to say that saddle pressure mapping, active saddle pressure mapping is a 100% that’s the only way only metric used in saddle selection. It’s not. It’s very important to include the athletes feel as well. I could have an awesome pressure map, but to the rider it doesn’t feel good.

Andrew: Yeah.

Craig: I need to continue looking for a saddle. What I’m looking for is, I want good pressure data, because I can see a storm on the horizon and I want the rider to feel good with the saddle as well. When those two things come together– good pressure mapping and good feel from the rider– I have less than a one percent chance that I’m going to be changing that saddle.

Andrew: Wow. That is significant. So you mentioned for you, you do the Retul motion capture on both sides which again with my asymmetry just in my body I’m sure certainly helped my fit. I had never had a fitter do that before and just really appreciate the thoroughness there. When you fire up that motion capture system and you’re getting footage of the legs turning over and what the body’s doing as its peddling, what are you looking for in that motion capture as you move things? You know what are you trying to change and get our body to– just within different angles and all that kind of stuff as you’re looking at the footage of a rider?

Craig: The important area diving in is the motor right, the legs. What are the legs doing in motion? In cycling the legs are the motion. How stable is the knee? How much is the knee tracking away from the bike? Are we looping? What are leg extension angles? But more importantly to me and also I feel a lot of triathletes is, what’s going on top of the pedal stroke? What’s going on when the hip is flexed, the knee is flexed, and the foot is dorsiflexed at the top of the pedal stroke? What’s going on there and what can I do to help stabilize that knee? The knee’s going to follow what the hip and foot tell it to do. So if our pelvis is stable in the saddle, and our foot is stable on the peddle, we should be able to get to a stable knee. Now going back to the triangulation, the off bike assessment, I’m looking at range of motion. If your initial position has your hip really closed off and you're externally rotating your hip to make the pedal stroke, well on the table you didn’t have the range of motion to be able to do it in the first place. So I have to get that hip to open up. So those are the things that I’m looking at and the relationship, are we front loading the bike, are we too far forward, are we not forward enough? So those are key elements. The bulk of the 3-D motion capture from a motion perspective is tracking what’s going on in the knee; the knee, the hip, and the foot. What’s going on there, and are they within a normative range and are they more importantly in a range that they can sustain?

John: So Craig, one thing that came up in bike fitting over the last couple years is crank arm length. That’s been more and more part of the conversation, especially those of us that, race triathlon and do have to, as you as you mentioned before, have to run off the bike. So what are those considerations and determining what crank length is right for not only a cyclist, but specifically a triathlete and should we just go with whatever comes on our bike or is that definitely something that we want to look into to make sure that we are riding that proper crank arm length?

Craig: So I’ve been an advocate for shorter cranks for a long time. I’ve been criticized for it. I’ve had people tell me left and right that they're going to lose power and oooh because with the longer lever, I can produce more power. Okay so in cycling, when are we concerned about max power? Max high definition is one. I can only do it once so if I think about cycling and we’re looking at max power, max power would occur in a standing start sprint. Are you doing that?

Andrew: No.

Craig: Okay. So now we’ve got to look at, how does that work with the body? I know from working with a lot of riders, I have a large female clientele, short female riders almost every time they get a poor set up. The idea of, we have– going back we had 170, 172.5, 175, 177.5. When I was a kid they put me on– When I was at the Olympic Training Center, they put me on 177.5. Knowing what I know now, I would’ve gone for 172.5 and killed it, but we hope through knowledge that we progress overtime right. But looking at it and saying that crank arm harmony length needs to be reflective of your leg segments. I’ve had riders with really, really long tib fib and they were tall riders even, and I put them on 165 cranks because I was looking at their knee flexion. Where it was just their knee was flexing too much at the top of the stroke, so I want to open that up, I want to open up the hip. On a tri bike you want to be a little lower you get a little shorter crank you can keep the hip open with a little lower back angle. There’s some ways to balance that, but from what I’ve seen, and this is in my own practice, for the most part and there’s exceptions all over the place for this.

Andrew: Sure.

Craig: But, if your saddle height is less than 700 mm and you’re on a crank arm 170 or greater you probably should be looking at something shorter. I have riders with saddle heights down in the 580, 590. I have some very short riders. So the argument of “I’m going to lose power” that’s been debunked. We have scientific studies saying that’s not true. But also for those that are tall and ridding 175 cranks, and they ride it well– I can ride 175 just well, my knee flexion’s fine. I prefer 172.5. My hip likes it. So when we look at it and we start to say to people who need shorter cranks, are shorter riders, and we are 6 foot 2 and we’re on 175 and we’re telling someone 5 foot 2 with short legs to be on 172.5 or 170s is ludacris. We need to be– If that’s the case then let’s put the 6 foot 2 riders on 195 or 200 length cranks because they’re going to produce more power. Uhh, no. The argument comes back to me “Well that’s too long” and it’s like okay, but when you start to look at the relationship of the body to the crank arm, that is what we need to be considering not I have a client that had hip, foot, and knee pain 172.5 length cranks went to a 165 length cranks. Pain went away but her significant other was telling her that she was losing all this power. Now granted they weren’t measuring power. They had no power meter. It was just tribal knowledge...

Andrew: Sure.

Craig: …that longer crank you’re going to get more power.

Andrew: Yeah.

Craig: So all of that the rider went back to 172.5 cranks, and I heard this through the grapevine. Hip, foot, and knee pain came back and they quit riding. That’s wrong!

Andrew: Yeah.

Craig: We need to be meeting people, their bike needs to meet their body whatever it is. If you need shorter cranks go with it. There’s some people, some fitters I’ve seen putting like 145 length cranks on a rider say my height, 6 foot 2. That’s pretty extreme. Then you have to step back and say “Are they effective with it?” well they just won or whatever then go with it. It’s fine. It’s not going to do any harm. So we’ve got to look at it from that perspective. Are we doing harm or not?

John: I think Craig you’re really demonstrating the critical need to work with a professional, with someone that knows. It's very difficult for us to even anecdotally or even for us it would be incredibly expensive to try out all these different crank lengths...

Andrew: Yeah.

John: …and just trial and error it. This is one of the reasons I always advocate so, so strongly for not just a bike fit, but really working with a professional like Craig that understands bike fit intimately and deeply and also understands the unique needs of the individual. Especially triathletes, as we represent a relatively small percentage of the cycling market, I think we represent a larger portion of the fits because we’re the ones that are willing to go out and do these things. But yeah, it’s one of those things I feel like we owe it to ourselves to be the best. Like you mentioned in that story, that lady’s power went to zero because she wasn’t cycling anymore, but I had the opposite story where I rode– I had a high bike end that had integrated cranks. I was somewhat reluctant or even a little bit lazy on going to the shorter cranks even though my fitter recommended it and then just kind of almost fortunately for me my power meter broke so I needed, it was time for me– I had a crank based power meter and man it made a huge difference. It’s one of those like jeez, I should’ve done this a long time ago. So yeah for me that was kind of one of those eye opening things for me and I didn’t think it would make that big of a difference. I mean we’re talking millimeters, but it made a huge difference both in my own riding as well as my ability to run off the bike. So kind of along those lines, once it’s all said and done, the fit is complete back out on the road, what are some of the signs that we need to be looking for that the fit is working versus what needs to come back into the shop and be touched up? Because anytime we change anything is going to feel awkward. It’s going to feel strange. The body is going to have to get used to something that– we’ve perhaps been riding that position for years so it’s going to be awkward, it could even be a little uncomfortable at first, but what are the signs that maybe we just need to give it a couple days, couple weeks, couple hours in the saddle versus coming back in for some refinement?

Craig: So first kind of based upon past experience with riders I was always asking the question, “How long did it take to adapt to the change?” and it fell somewhere for most people between five and ten hours on the bike.

Andrew: Okay.

Craig: So I always ask riders give it five or ten hours on the bike. Your first five hours need to be kind of quiet, easy, lower intensity, lower duration, but during that time lets be looking for increased comfort. Are you performing better? Did the pains go away? Those are signs that things are working. Now especially the tri side if you can’t maintain the position that we arrived at during the fit, if you can’t stay down– if you’re down there for two minutes and you have to come out, that’s not working for you.

Andrew: Yeah.

Craig: We need to reevaluate. I recently had a client, they had a road saddle on their tribike and I was very much an advocate and I liked what I was seeing out of a split nose. You know the tri saddle and we tried it, it didn’t work. She didn’t like it. She didn’t like the rub. She didn’t like a few things about it, and we ended up back to a road saddle. Is that something that I really wanted her to have? I actually preferred the other. My pressure data said this was better and I had a little better motion data too with my saddle, but she couldn’t maintain it. So through negotiation back and forth with the client, we went and I said “Alright this is what we’re going to do. Let’s see how it plays. If you’re going to do that we’ve got to work on focusing on the knee. You’re going to need some more adductor strength. We’ve got to work on some things.” And we kind of went back and forth a little bit and now she’s riding it well. She looks good on the bike and it’s sustainable. So the sign that something is wrong is when you can’t maintain that position that we arrived at. We try to, when the rider leaves our studio we like them to have a knowledge of what we’re looking for so that when they’re out on the road, they have some sort of something set in their mind to refer back to. “Oh this is what they were meaning.” and then eventually five to ten hours in, you start to develop those nice patterns and then you can recognize when you’re out of that. So that’s important. Other things to be concerned about, any sharp pains. If you end up with a sharp pain somewhere, stop riding we need to reevaluate. That’s not an expected result and numbness. For the most part maybe touting our service a little much here or expectations, but the majority of our riders I’m not seeing come back to me in a week or two with problems. You know I’ll see them a year later when they get a new bike or something different, you know different shoes, things like. When we do have a rider, and it happens.

Andrew: Sure, yeah.

Craig: We’re human. Humans working with humans. I usually have enough data to be able to make a recommendation to tweak their bike themselves. “Hey lower the saddle 3 mm. Let’s see if we can take some of the hamstring tension out because your saddle was 3 cm too low and we kind of pushed a little too far to start with. So let’s back off on it a little bit and then we’ll go back up in the future.” But an important part of that is communication. The rider needs to be aware of their own body, what’s going on with it and if something is bothering him, don’t be afraid to reach out to whoever did it. Like I said I’m human and we’re working with humans.

John: Craig, one thing you mentioned coming back periodically; not necessarily days or weeks after that fit, but maybe it's a year later, maybe it’s a new bike. What are some of those catalysts that could spawn the need for a fit or is there even an interval, maybe one year, two years or something like that that we should just check back in? As you mentioned before, that bodies change and sometimes we’re not even intimately aware of how our body is changing over that time. Is there a rule of thumb that you advise either– Are there certain catalysts or just a timeframe that it’s a good idea to come back in and see your fitter?

Craig: So let’s say you’re a year out from your fitter and everything‘s been going well and then all of a sudden, boom. I’ve got knee pain or I’ve got hip pain or something going on or an onset of pain something like that. An injury I had a client fall off a ladder, tweaked himself pretty good hanging Christmas lights. His fit changed. I had to change it.

Andrew: Yeah.

Craig: I had a triathlete, a car pulled out in front of them on course at a race and they went over the hood and had damage to both shoulders and forearm. So an acute injury could necessitate that.  Changes in weight, flexibility. A lot of people say as we get older we’re not flexible. I know Lisa who works with me here in my studio would say that’s more of an effect of being lazy...

Andrew: Yeah.

Craig: …and not stretch and I fall into that category. I need to stretch more. I need to do more core work.

Andrew: Yeah, same.

Craig: I need to eat better. All of those fun things. But I do think that we have some control on that. The other part that comes into play is mechanics. They’ll alter your saddle height when they put it in a work stand. They don’t want to clamp a carbon frame. They need enough seat post exposed to put it in a work stand. Worst case scenario, they’ll break your seat post and that’s a lot cheaper than repairing a frame or replacing a frame. So then it’s a question “Did it go back to where it needed to go?” But I also don’t wanna just say mechanics. John, you just showed us a picture of your dog laying on your bike bag. You had to take your bike apart to some extent…

Andrew: Yeah.

Craig: …to trave. A lot of triathletes travel to events. So that’s going to– putting the bike back together, taking it apart. Those things can change position if you’re not methodical in marking it and getting it back. So I know a lot of people rely on someone else to put their bike together for them and they’re not paying attention to it and then others go into great detail. So yeah acute injuries, changes in the body. I see some clients every year. Some every two years. Some when they get a new pair of shoes or a new bike. So those are times to reevaluate. I used to push kind of push, you’ve got to look at it every year. I might fall off that a little bit to say every year, depending how heavy you are and what’s going on in your life and with your body and your interaction in the sport, that could vary. So it’s a few things.

Andrew: Yeah so great, so it sounds like if any of those events have sparked some sort of change either in you, or your fit, or your gear, it’s worth getting fit again. But if you’ve gone a year and largely nothing has changed, largely your flexibility is in the same place, your fitness is in a similar place, your weight is in a similar place, you can probably just keep on trucking unless you experience any issues. So that’s super helpful to hear. Craig, there has been a rapid rise and popularity to training indoors and cycling virtually. I’ve been, you know, I’ll go out for a few outdoor rides and then I’ll hit a week or two where I’m just on the trainer on indoor stationary, I’ve wondered just before, what I’ve noticed in my own body being outside versus being indoors. Does kind of bouncing between the two change what we need in a fit or is the same fit fine for riding indoors versus riding outdoors?

Craig: So virtual cycling was a part of our landscape prior to COVID. But with COVID we saw an increase in virtual participation right?

Andrew: Yeah.

Craig: So people are choosing that for a variety of reasons: safety, convenience, the physicality. I can get my work in at four in the morning, take a shower, and be on my way. But what I’ve noticed is some changes in the riders. When we’re riding the indoor trainer all the time we’re not having to balance that bike. So core strength, the engagement of core is different. How we are engaging with the bike is different. Some are doing it on exercise bikes, which is not even in the position that they would be competing in.

Andrew: Yeah, absolutely!

Craig: Or ridding in. So they’re building strength and stamina in a way that’s not beneficial to them. Now cardiovascular it’s great, but strength and stamina is not being built in the position that they should be. But a lot of people say to me, “I only have a problem when I’m on the trainer. I have genital numbness when I’m on the trainer and that’s the only time I have it. I only have the problem on the trainer.” And at first I accepted that statement, but as I reflected more upon it, I come to realize the rider has the problem in both settings, they’re experiencing symptoms in one setting and why is that? They’re engaging with the bike differently indoors versus outdoors. We’re starting, stopping at stoplights, speeding up, slowing down, whereas the trainer, we’re just hitting it. But also what I’m seeing is some asymmetries forming with the rider who does a lot of indoor. So if that bike is not plumb side to side the rider is going to compensate, similar to what you were doing for your leg length difference.

Andrew: Yeah.

Craig: If my bike is leaning to the right, I’m going to move my body to the left to center it back up so that I can pedal. So that brings in saddle sores and  low back pain. The leading cause of low back pain: functional or skeletal leg length differences. So that comes into play. A lot of people in their garage. Well depending on how your bike is facing, you can be going uphill if you’re facing the front of your garage, you’re going downhill if you’re facing the back of your garage or you're leaning if you’re facing either direction.

Andrew: Yeah.

Craig: So that affects how we hold your body. So if we think about to maintain those positions I have to shorten muscles on one side of my body and lengthen on the other. That’s not good. So we need to be conscious when we’re riding indoors what our environment is like. Are we creating a problem? Are we mimicking to the best of our ability the outdoor environment indoors and maintaining that position so that when we do get out on the bike that low back pain, the head, neck, shoulder issues that we experience outdoors because we’re not training indoors appropriately don’t come to light.

Andrew: Yeah.

Craig: I believe that the virtual sport part is going to be a part of sport for years to come.

Andrew: So Craig you’ve literally done thousands of fits. I’ve been on the athletes side of three fits. John, I think you probably had a few more fits than that, but between the three of us, Craig, you’re in the lead of how many fit sessions you’ve been a part of. So, I would imagine the most fits are pretty standard and go by uneventfully, but I know you have to have a few good stories where the fit session was just let’s say extra eventful. What’s a good story that comes to me for you from your fit sessions?

Craig: That’s a fun one. I have to say, looking at my clientele and the number of years I’ve been doing this. I’ve had very few what I would call problem clients.

Andrew: Good!

Craig: Those are the stories.

Andrew: Yeah.

Craig: Those are the ones that are like “I don’t want to see that person again,” and they are few and far between and they are a part of society and—  And again humans working with humans. So but from the tri world I had to think about it. I did have a rider come in wanting to get more aero, you know, lower.

Andrew: Sure.

Craig: And after the full assessment, multiple attempts trying to get him lower he couldn’t sustain how low he already was.

Andrew: Wow.

Craig: So I ended up raising him up 25 mm, about an inch, and he cussed me. “I can’t…” (and you can throw in a word there) “...believe you raised me up. I came in here to get more aero!”

Andrew: Yeah.

Craig: And I said, “You can’t sustain where you’re at, much less me trying to get you lower.” So I asked him, “How long do you sustain aero in a full Ironman?” He said about 50%.

Andrew: Wow!

Craig: And I was like, “What if I can get you 95% in a less aero position, will we not improve your time?” And so I was able to prove the more aero position destabilized him on the bike. He was somewhat upset with me but did agree to try it and about four, six months later, I get an email that included these great results, that said “Had the best bike, best run ever. I knocked off significant time.” I think it was something like it was over an hour and a half.

Andrew: Wow.

Craig: A lot of time! And with that also came along with an apology. So that made me feel good that he had the good results and that he recognized the value in what we did and it improved his performance on the bike and yes, it was contrary to the aero gods, but it was sustainable for him and killed it with it.

Andrew: Yeah! I know, I love it. Yeah, glad it came with a happy ending as opposed to an unhappy ending.

John: For those interested in getting a bike fit, and as we advocated for me even me personally, finding that fitter that understands the unique needs of triathletes I know I’ve had. I’ve had athletes fly in to work with a fitter in my area. You’ve mentioned you’ve had athletes from all over the country fly in to work with you. Personally I think that’s a worthwhile investment, but what are some of those things that, what are some of the marks of a good fitter? So if an athlete is looking for a good qualified fitter in their area, what are those things that we should be looking for to make sure that the fitter that we’re working with really knows their stuff and really is going to get us our best fit?

Craig: So I think looking at their training and education. I see a lot of places offering some advanced fitting options, but may not have the trained staff to do it. So do your homework on who you will be working with. Have a conversation with them. See how you fit with them. Look at how experienced the fitter is in fitting for your discipline, you know. The last thing you want is a road bike fit on a tri bike.

Andrew: Yeah.

Craig: I see them come in all the time. In my own practice here there’s two of us fitting. I do all the tri and TT fits. Lisa does all the mountain bike fits and she’ll do road fits. I’ll do road fits and gravel fits. But it’s not that I can’t do mountain bike fits, it’s she’s more of an expert in mountain bike fits. It’s not that she can’t do TT fits. She’s done a bunch with me and we learn from each other on it, but she has the expertise in the mountain side that you know from practical experience on the bike that I don’t have. So, if you’re going to go to a fitter, do they really understand from a tri perspective, really understand the differences? A lot of fitters that are strong in road, you know, want to drop a plumb bob from the knee and set knee over pedal. You do that on a tri bike, you’re screwed. So, the other thing is what technologies do they use? A lot of people say, “Well I can just look at someone and tell.” Okay. I can’t and I’ve been doing this a long time. I can’t catch the intricate details. Can I tell in a gross fashion how good or bad you may be on the bike? Yeah. But I’m not recording, my eyes aren’t recording it. I’m not looking at averages of pedal strokes over a minute at 90 RPMs. We can’t see those things. So, what technologies are they using? Are they at least using some sort of video capture? Something where they can stop it and look at it and analyze it, or is it just their eyes? You know, frankly I think the technology is strong that we have and why not use it? If we look at technology, what we can do an MRI today. If we go back a hundred years, that would have been exploratory surgery. Do you want to do exploratory surgery or do you just want to get an image and see and use the technology? And go, “Yeah, maybe I don’t need to cut this guy open.” So but also be sure when you’re looking at fitters is to compare apples to apples when it comes to their services offered and related cost. What are you getting for that? What’s the time involvement? You know, our average fit is two to three hours. I’ve had some go longer, some shorter if it’s a rider I’ve been working with several times over ten years, they know my process, they understand me, I understand them and we can move through it quicker. But definitely compare apples to apples because it’s not always there. Andy Brooks started The International Bike Fitting Institute a lot of my mentors are a part of that as well and that’s another area to go look for a fitter. He does a good job on the education side of things. He weights education heavily so yeah.

Andrew: So, if someone listened to our podcast today and was like, man I really liked learning from Craig. This guy knows his stuff and they want a dynamic bike fit from you. How can they contact you to schedule a fit? We have listeners all over the world. We have listeners all over the United States. We do have a lot in Texas, but you even said you’ve had people travel to fly in Dallas Fort Worth to be seen by you. So what was the process like if someone wants to get a dynamic bike fit from Craig Folk?

Craig: So the easiest thing to do would be to go to our website dynamicbikefit.com. We have a “book a session link”. Our calendar is up-to-date. This time of year we can run anywhere from two to six weeks out, and if you have any other questions on our contact us page down there at the bottom there is a “other services request.” If you have some questions that you want to throw at me, feel free to throw them in there.

Cool down theme: Great set everyone! Let’s cool down.

Andrew: On the main set, you all got to hear from my personal bike fitter, Craig Folk. I know John Mayfield, who is on this episode with me, he gets his bike done at Shama Cycles from Philip Shama in the Houston area. Shout out to Philip. I just kind of wanted to close the show today by giving some TriDot athletes the chance to give some shout out to their bike fitter. So I reached out to our TriDot ambassador group, and I said, “Hey, if anybody has a bike fitter that you really believe in, that you really have connected with leave me a TriDot podcast voicemail, giving a shout out to your fitter and I will play it on the show.” So hopefully this is a good way for wherever you live, you might find a new fitter in your neck of the woods via some TriDot podcast listener to recommendation. So without further adieu here are some TriDot ambassadors giving some shout outs to their bike fitters.

Voicemail Recording:  Louise here from South Africa, I’m based in a city called Pretoria. My bike fitter is five hours away in a town called Bloom Fontaine. Massive shout out to John Furry from Cycle World in Bloom Fontaine. They have absolutely gone the distance to make sure that I’m comfortable on any bike that I own. I drive that five hours with a smile on my face because I know I’m going to be comfortable for the rest of the season. My first ever triathlon that I did, I went for a bike fit. We did my bike fit up nine times to make sure that I am as comfortable as possible and he only charged me for one. So I can definitely not complain. Yeah, so he is absolutely my bike fitter of choice. So anyone in South Africa if you are close to Bloom please go there you will not be disappointed with the service and the prices. So massive shout out there.

Hey TriDot Community, this is Craig Fisher calling from Seattle, Washington. I wanted to give a shout out to my bike fitter Erik Moen at Corpor Sano out of Kenmore, Washington. Erik and his team are amazing at what they do. They’ve fit me for many different bikes and definitely keep me in alignment and keep me getting me the best maximum position as well as output for my races. So big shout out to Erik and his team if you’re in the Seattle market feel free to reach out to him. Corpor Sano, Erik Moen give him a shout. Great team. Thanks for what you do for the TriDot community. Thanks. Bye.

This is Cathy Mayone from Stamford, Connecticut and my bike fitter is Chad Butts. He owns a shop called enduranceWERX, that’s enduranceWERX they are located in Harlem, New York and Montrose, New York, which is in northern Westchester county of New York. What’s great about Chad is that he’s an independent fitter and he’s not tied to any bike shop so he’s really just focused on finding the very best bike for you. Thanks.

Hi, it’s Doug French. I live in Cochrane, Alberta, Canada and the best fitting bike shop I know, the best is Big Hill Cycle in Cochrane. They’re number one. All their staff know how to fit people on their bikes and they’re just totally awesome. I just bought a new Felt VR and it’s just amazing. Big Hill Cycle in Cochrane.

Hi, this is Sandra Ringelstein from the Charlotte, North Carolina area and I wanted to talk about my bike fitter Chris Sheehan at Uptown Cycles. I think that he is fabulous. He is a great listener. He uses the Retul system so it’s absolute perfection and he really has your best interest at heart. You can tell that from him. He’s a very kind person. Love him.

Hi I’m Tina Stewart from Lansing, Michigan, area. My bike fitter is Jessica Bratus at fitmi! in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Jessica has more than 15 years of experience in the art and science of bike fitting. She has become one of the most renowned bike fitters in Michigan. She is thorough, detailed and committed to making the customer happy and has probably fitted at least 90% of the athletes on our local tri team. During the beginning of the pandemic in March 2020, I was scheduled for a refit on my road bike while training for Ironman Wisconsin. Of course we couldn’t meet in person so we improvised and did our first FaceTime modified bike fit with my husband helping with measuring and tweaking. She seriously rocks!

Hey everyone this is Greg Perron from Orange County, California and my bike fitter is a gentleman named Mike McKovich. Mike works out of his own studio called MaxPerformanceBikeFit.com but also travels around Southern California to local bike shops that he’s partnered with in particular the bike shop where I had my fit done over 20 years ago and subsequent fits is a bike shop called Don’s Bikes in Redlands, California. I would encourage you if you’re somewhere in the Southern California area. It’s worth a trip to visit Mike McKovich. He does an amazing job.

This is Heather Hodges from Dublin, Pennsylvania. My bike fitter is Mark Gallietta and his shop is The Energy Lab in Doylestown, Pennsylvania. He has a Vertex fit bike system that he does pre-buy bike fits on. So you can pick out the exact bike that you know will fit you. He also is a triathlete himself. He just finished the Epic Deca Challenge which is a 10 full Ironman distance race in 10 days which is beyond impressive.

Hi, this is Dian Dwenyes. I am from St. Louis, Missouri. I want to give a shout out to Tim at Maplewood Bikes. Tim is my fitter. Tim is awesome. Whether you’re a pro level rider or a newbie to riding, he treats everybody the same and truly cares about your bike fit. He will spend hours for you on his own time if he had to. He just loves cycling that much. Tim rocks.

Hey there this is Craig Jiminez out of Winters, California TriDot ambassador in the greater Sacramento area. Big shout out to my bike fitter Rich Burns out of Rancho Endurance Sports in Rancho Cordova. Dude just puts his heart into everything he does triathlon wise and is a great bike fitter.

Hi this is Hillary Melk from Las Vegas, Nevada. My bike fitter is Shane Broussard at Pro Cyclery. Shane is knowledgeable on the needs for the triathlete both male and female. During the bike fit Shane will also provide instruction to why the modification is needed and how to apply during your next ride. He’ll even give you some pointers on how to conquer that bike portion at your next race.

Matt Johnson here in Bend, Oregon giving a shout out to Bart Bowen at Bowen Performance Sports. Bart is a Master Fitter using the Guru system. He gets the perfect fit for you on the Guru bike and then can translate that to your time trial bike, road bike, gravel bike. I am more efficient in the saddle right now and have less pain. I absolutely endorse Bart. Thank you Bart.

Andrew: Well that’s it for today folks. I want to thank Craig Folk and John Mayfield for talking bike fit today. If you are interested in being fit by Craig yourself, head to dynamicbikefit.com to schedule your own fitting. I sent a few folks to Craig already and they all walked away happy with the experience. Remember, if you want to learn more about fuel and hydration from Andy Blow and the team at Precision Fuel and Hydration head to precisionfuelandhydration.com to book a call with one of the sweat experts where you can form your own race day hydration and fueling strategy. If you want to give Precision Fuel and Hydration products a try, you can use promo code TRIDOT10 for 10% off your order. We’ll have a new show coming your way soon. Until then, Happy Training!

Outro: Thanks for joining us. Make sure to subscribe and share the TriDot podcast with your triathlon crew. For more great tri content and community, connect with us on Facebook, YouTube, and Instagram. Ready to optimize your training? Head to tridot.com and start your free trial today! TriDot – the obvious and automatic choice for triathlon training.

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